Prophecy fulfilled today! Jesus is coming soon.

[asterisktom]

For the love of all why are there so many Reformed on this website? These discussions are meant for like minded brethren.

I like reading these posts. They are often - unintentionally - funny.

You Dispies are like minded brethren and Reformed are - what? - accomplices in crime? Benighted brotherhood?

 

[MB]

What part of my post do you disagree with? What specific parts of my point are erroneous and display a "poor view of cripture"?

I am happy to talk details with you but in this reply you've actually added nothing but a trite retort that fails to engage at any level with the statement I made against over-realized eschatology.

I get that these discussions are complicated and if you can't handle the rigor of actual engagement and discussing the specific points of disagreement than maybe this is a conversation you should sit out.

The very fact of your coment. You attack what I believe and know to be truth and call it a lie in so many words or less. I just merely did the same. As to proof, you were the first to make such a false statement with out proof. So prove Dispensationalism is in error.
MB

 

[MB]

I like reading these posts. They are often - unintentionally - funny.

You Dispies are like minded brethren and Reformed are - what? - accomplices in crime? Benighted brotherhood?

So nice of you to stop by and give us your evaluation. Hope you have a wonderful laugh.
MB

 

[freeatlast]

To put everything posted in perspective I present the following:

The 10 worst natural disasters in terms of death toll are extracted from a list of 66 compiled by David B. Hall. The complete list is available on the internet. I have yet to find an appropriate way to reference the work by Mr. Hall. Sadly, though not a natural disaster Mr. Hall fails to mention the millions of unborn children aborted world wide each year, 50 million slaughtered in the United states alone since the 1973 Roe v Wade decision by the Supreme Court. Strangely approximately one third of all pregnancies in this country are terminated by abortion which comports with the one third mentioned in Revelation 9:15-18.



EGYPT AND SYRIA, 1201

The deadliest earthquake in history hit the eastern Mediterranean in July 1201. Approximately 1.1 million people were killed, mostly in Egypt and Syria. This makes it close to one of the ten worst natural disasters in recorded history.


MOST OF EUROPE AND BEYOND, 1347-1350

Approximately 25 million lost their lives through the "Black Death" - the bubonic plague. Between 25 and 33% of the entire population of Europe at that time, plus millions in Asia and North Africa lost their lives.


WESTERN HEMISPHERE, MOSTLY 16TH - 18TH CENTURIES

Untold millions of lives of American Indians were lost through the various sicknesses brought over from Europe (to which they had no previous exposure or resistance.) It's very difficult to get figures on this that are not politically infected one way or another (very high or very low).


INDIA, 1769

About ten million people lost their lives from a famine in Bengal.


CHINA, 1876 - 1879

The deadliest drought in recorded history was in China between 1876 and 1879. Rivers were dry, so most crops and livestock died. There was no food production in a 1-million km2 area of 9 provinces. The drought caused the death of an estimated nine million people.

WORLD-WIDE, 1918 - 19

Influenza pandemic takes somewhere between 35 million and 75 million lives (some reports estimate around a hundred million, but those can't be confirmed) - at least 16 million people died in India alone. This is clearly the worst disaster - at least in the last thousand years.


CHINA, 1935

Another Yellow River flood "caused 27 counties inundated and 3.4 million victims". How many actual lives were killed we don't know. If you have facts, let us hear from you


CHINA, 1958 - 61

As many as 20 million people died in this famine. *

* We received the following response to this post

Sirs: I would ask that you consider re-characterizing the 20-30 million who died in China during the period 1959-61 as a political blunder rather than a famine. Famines are typically understood to be the result of diminished food production due to weather or other natural disasters. This was not the case in China. Food production was for the most part normal during this period. What changed was the desire of local cadre wanting to look good and reporting increased food production following Mao's politics of "right" practices. Mao's government simply took their share of the harvest, 50%. But since the reported harvest was in fact inflated, what resulted was the entire production being shipped to Beijing. This more accurately could be labeled Mao's Holocaust. Respectfully, Doug Searles


AFRICA, 1981 - 1984

Rivers and lakes dried up from the drought that had incredible impact on twenty African nations. During one season about 20,000 were starving to death EACH MONTH. 150 million were facing starvation if help didn't come right away. People from around the world began to respond to this crisis - but for hundreds of thousands of people, it was too late. (If you have figures for this, please let us know. When combined with other relatively recent African famines, the fugure is well over 1,000,000)


NORTH KOREA, 1995-98

Over 3 million are said to have died from famine and floods in North Korea.

That does not put anything into perspective. You need to read the text that was referred to in the OP. The warning is when all those things mentioned start happening at the same time, and we are seeing it, but it also says the end is not yet. The passage is simply saying to the believer don't get discouraged as to when the return will be and then gives evidence that everything is on track.
However I do agree that the passage is not speaking of the rapture.

 

[asterisktom]

So nice of you to stop by and give us your evaluation. Hope you have a wonderful laugh.
MB

Not really a wonderful laugh. A sad laugh, if you know what I mean. Arguments were brought up here by several people, like the list by Old Regular, and they were not even taken into consideration.

Scriptural points were ignored too. Some people just love their special little authors, spending much more time studying them than scripture.

Sometimes you just have to laugh because it is so sad. I feel sorry for the ones who are being "evangeled" by this one who goes from one puffy endtimes book to the other.

 

[preachinjesus]

The very fact of your coment. You attack what I believe and know to be truth and call it a lie in so many words or less. I just merely did the same. As to proof, you were the first to make such a false statement with out proof.

So since dispensationalism is a rather recent innovation in theology...what about all those folks who didn't have access to dispensational thought prior to the 1800s?

Besides, I'm a progressive dispensationalist. You need to be more careful in your accusations and critical posts.

So prove Dispensationalism is in error.

I never said dispensationalism is in error. Please go back to what I posted and carefully read my adjectives.

 

[freeatlast]

Not really a wonderful laugh. A sad laugh, if you know what I mean. Arguments were brought up here by several people, like the list by Old Regular, and they were not even taken into consideration.

Scriptural points were ignored too. Some people just love their special little authors, spending much more time studying them than scripture.

Sometimes you just have to laugh because it is so sad. I feel sorry for the ones who are being "evangeled" by this one who goes from one puffy endtimes book to the other.

Why would you be sad? If they are wrong they still go to be with the Lord, and the same for you if you are wrong. How we go is of little importance as long as we go.

 

[asterisktom]

<Snip list of disasters over the centuries.>

OK, would you now present a list of mass murders that have occurred over the centuries to refute the OP's claim of "the love of many has grown cold" is a fulfillment of prophecy?

Generally, I don't look to headlines to fit prophecy but I can't think of any examples of a loner killing dozens of strangers before this generation. Just last year we had 70+ people killed in Norway and now we have this incident in Aurora, CO. There was also Columbine, the DC snipers, Virginia Tech massacre, Fort Hood army base killings, etc. etc. People have had guns for hundreds of years yet only recently are we seeing this sort of killings. Why?

I believe this mass murder of strangers is a new phenomena and could be a fulfillment of prophecy.

Two points.

1. The passage speaks of people whose love for God, professed or otherwise, had cooled (extinguished). These mass murderers, on the whole, did not do this.

2. There were mass murders throughout history. The only reason we seem to have more of these killings nowadays is the fact that we have more access to news. The earlier ones are "off the radar" so to speak. Thus the event clutter (like nearby ground-clutter on weather radars) seems to be mainly of present times.

But history still records many mass killings. The Bible too. Just one that comes to mind is Jer. 41:3-7

"Ishmael also slew all the Jews that were with him, even with Gedaliah, at Mizpah, and the Chaldeans that were found there, and the men of war.

And it came to pass the second day after he had slain Gedaliah, and no man knew it,

That there came certain from Shechem, from Shiloh, and from Samaria, even fourscore men, having their beards shaven, and their clothes rent, and having cut themselves, with offerings and incense in their hand, to bring them to the house of the LORD.

And Ishmael the son of Nethaniah went forth from Mizpah to meet them, weeping all along as he went: and it came to pass, as he met them, he said unto them, Come to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam.

And it was so, when they came into the midst of the city, that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah slew them, and cast them into the midst of the pit, he, and the men that were with him."

There you go, a mass murder if ever there was one. You can find half a dozen more in Scripture, I would bet. History - read especially the Annals of Ussher - will show more. Michael Ptellus (I may have botched his name) and some other Middle Age chroniclers have more.

 

[asterisktom]

Why would you be sad? If they are wrong they still go to be with the Lord, and the same for you if you are wrong. How we go is of little importance as long as we go.

Yes, some will go to be with the Lord. I have no doubt of that. But before they die, if they keep on with their vapid evangelism, they will do more harm to the cause of Christ than good. They trash the credibility of Christianity in the eyes of many when the soon-to-come rapture they keep pointing to doesn't materialize.

 

[OldRegular]

The very fact of your coment. You attack what I believe and know to be truth and call it a lie in so many words or less. I just merely did the same. As to proof, you were the first to make such a false statement with out proof. So prove Dispensationalism is in error.
MB

Dispensationalism teaches that Jesus Christ came to establish the Messianic Kingdom for the Jews, they rejected Him, and He established the Church instead. Leading dispensationalists such as Chafer, Walvoord, Pentecost. Ryrie, teach that the Church was not mentioned in the Old Teatament, that the Church Age is an interruption in God's primary purpose for Israel, and that the Church is a parenthesis or intercalation during which God suspends His plan for Israel. In simpler words the Church for which Jesus Christ died is simply a parenthesis?????

Apparently Scofield had not been schooled sufficiently in dispensational thought to know that the Church was the unmentionable in the Old Testament because he writes in his Introduction to the Song of Solomon the following:.

Scofield Reference Notes (1917 Edition)

Song of Solomon - Introduction


Nowhere in Scripture does the unspiritual mind tread upon ground so mysterious and incomprehensible as in this book, while the saintliest men and women of the ages have found it a source of pure and exquisite delight. That the love of the divine Bridegroom should follow all the analogies of the marriage relation seems evil only to minds so ascetic that martial desire itself seems to them unholy.

The interpretation is twofold: Primarily, the book is the expression of pure marital love as ordained of God in creation, and the vindication of that love as against both asceticism and lust--the two profanations of the holiness of marriage. The secondary and larger interpretation is of Christ, the Son and His heavenly bride, the Church ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 refs).​

http://www.biblestudytools.com/comm...-of-solomon/song-of-solomon-introduction.html

 

[Iconoclast]

I am like-minded with you, but totally against trying to make headlines fit scripture. It can't be done as had been proven over and over again.

Let's stop looking for signs and start living like we expect Jesus back any second regardless of the headlines.

:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

 

[OldRegular]

There you go, a mass murder if ever there was one. You can find half a dozen more in Scripture, I would bet. History - read especially the Annals of Ussher - will show more. Michael Ptellus (I may have botched his name) and some other Middle Age chroniclers have more.

One more Tom!

An Eyewitness Account of the Saint Bartholomew's Day Massacre
by François Dubois
From the Musée Cantonal Des Beaux-Arts, Lausanne Switzerland

August 24, 1572, was the date of the infamous St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in France. On that day, over 400 years ago, began one of the most horrifying holocausts in history. The glorious Reformation, begun in Germany on October 31, 1517, had spread to France—and was joyfully received. A great change had come over the people as industry and learning began to flourish, and so rapidly did the Truth spread that over a third of the population embraced the Reformed Christian Faith.

However, alarm bells began to ring at the Vatican! France was her eldest daughter and main pillar—the chief source of money and power. . . . King Pepin of the Franks (the father of Charlemagne) had given the Papal States to the Pope almost 1000 years earlier. Almost half the real estate in the country was owned by the clergy.

Meanwhile, back in Paris, the King of France and his Court spent their time drinking, reveling and carousing. The Court spiritual adviser—a Jesuit priest— urged them to massacre the Protestants—as penance for their many sins! To catch the Christians off-guard every token of peace, friendship, and ecumenical good will was offered.

Suddenly—and without warning—the devilish work commenced. Beginning at Paris, the French soldiers and the Roman Catholic clergy fell upon the unarmed people, and blood flowed like a river throughout the entire country. Men, women, and children fell in heaps before the mobs and the bloodthirsty troops. In one week, almost 100,100 Protestants perished. The rivers of France were so filled with corpses that for many months no fish were eaten. In the valley of the Loire, wolves came down from the hills to feel upon the decaying bodies of Frenchmen. The list of massacres was as endless as the list of the dead!

Many were imprisoned—many sent as slaves to row the King's ships—and some were able to escape to other countries. . . . The massacres continued for centuries. The best and brightest people fled to Germany, Switzerland, England, Ireland and eventually America and brought their incomparable manufacturing skills with them. . . . France was ruined. . . . Wars, famine, disease and poverty finally led to the French Revolution—the Guillotine—the Reign of Terror—the fall of the Roman Catholic Monarchy—atheism—communism etc., etc.

When news of the Massacre reached the Vatican there was jubilation! Cannons roared—bells rung—and a special commemorative medal was struck—to honor the occasion! The Pope commissioned Italian artist Vasari to paint a mural of the Massacre—which still hangs in the Vatican!​

​

http://www.reformation.org/bart.html

And dispensationalists whine about the coming GrreAAT Tribulation!

 

[Iconoclast]

No, the Lord used the rejection by isreal to bring us into salvation thru yeshua, he is the messaih to both jews/gentiles!

he now is dealing thru the Church, but one day will redeal and restore national isreal....

The church has always been the focus

Such as when he will return to rapture his Church!

the last day

 

[Iconoclast]

Well I'm not reformed.



Then don't post them in the General Forum. Honestly if you only want your assumptions reinforced and your conclusions to be unchallenged then general discourse with a group of people probably isn't for you. However when you openly (and continually) post drivel that conflates singular events in a small community in the middle of Western civilization and conclude that this clearly must be a harbinger of the end for all humanity I'm going to challenge that statement.

Then attempting to dismiss proper critique by stating that only those who agree with you can post (which you didn't mention above) is a foolish way to avoid intellectual challenge. It smacks of the hubris of anti-intellectual fundamentalism. This is no way to comport oneself amongst fellow believers.

If you can't handle deeper level discussions than maybe you should refrain from posting ridiculous eschatological speculation and then call for conclusions.

:thumbs::wavey:-well said and important.

 

[freeatlast]

Yes, some will go to be with the Lord. I have no doubt of that. But before they die, if they keep on with their vapid evangelism, they will do more harm to the cause of Christ than good. They trash the credibility of Christianity in the eyes of many when the soon-to-come rapture they keep pointing to doesn't materialize.

That is ridiculous. No one is predicting a time line. They are simply stating an event. The cause of Christ is not hurt at all by it because neither side can be totally proven one way or the other. One thing about it. We positively know with no question there will be a rapture based on scripture. The only thing in question for those who honestly accept what scripture says is the time frame, not if there will be a rapture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

That is a rapture. Someone may debate pre, mid or post, trib or no trib and still a rapture, but only a fool would claim there will be no rapture.

 

[OldRegular]

Well I'm not reformed.



Then don't post them in the General Forum. Honestly if you only want your assumptions reinforced and your conclusions to be unchallenged then general discourse with a group of people probably isn't for you. However when you openly (and continually) post drivel that conflates singular events in a small community in the middle of Western civilization and conclude that this clearly must be a harbinger of the end for all humanity I'm going to challenge that statement.

Thanks much for the above remarks. There is a sermon there for all of us! We get so wrapped up in our own world that we refuse to consider anything beyond that.

 

[Tom Butler]

Hmm, look at Luke 12:40

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Luke says He'll come when we're not looking for him. If we're looking for him, does that mean He won't return until we quit looking for him?

And, if we quit looking for Him, will that hasten His return?

I'm just having a little fun here.

 

[asterisktom]

That is ridiculous. No one is predicting a time line. They are simply stating an event. The cause of Christ is not hurt at all by it because neither side can be totally proven one way or the other. One thing about it. We positively know with no question there will be a rapture based on scripture. The only thing in question for those who honestly accept what scripture says is the time frame, not if there will be a rapture.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

That is a rapture. Someone may debate pre, mid or post, trib or no trib and still a rapture, but only a fool would claim there will be no rapture.

You show the very weakness of your position by your "fool" remark.

However, my emphasis was on the tiresome soon-to-come aspect.

 

[OldRegular]

Hmm, look at Luke 12:40


Luke says He'll come when we're not looking for him. If we're looking for him, does that mean He won't return until we quit looking for him?

And, if we quit looking for Him, will that hasten His return?

I'm just having a little fun here.

You ben messin around with the Duke of Paducah again.:laugh::laugh: And I am not talkin bout the space traveler!:smilewinkgrin:

 

[webdog]

Hmm, look at Luke 12:40


Luke says He'll come when we're not looking for him. If we're looking for him, does that mean He won't return until we quit looking for him?

And, if we quit looking for Him, will that hasten His return?

I'm just having a little fun here.

Many on this thread that applies to. Could it been speaking of the growth of amil's?