Proposal of a New Theological Degree

A person who earns a Juris Doctor instead uses the term "esquire" if that person's profession is relevant to the JD. For example, an attorney or consular officer.

 

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I did my ThM at Western Seminary in two years of part time work. It required a thesis and the Biblical languages. The MDiv was a prerequisite to that. Working full time one with a BA could finish the MDiv/ThM combo in four years.

In some schools , as Masters, the ThM is a prereq to doc study. In other schools as the Baptist in Pa., a ThM decreases the required work for a PhD.

Bill

 

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That is a good point. We should all remember not to be like the Scribes and Pharisees who were full of "greed and self indulgence." (NIV)

However, it is not my impression that those fine teachers I had in Seminary were full of those things. Rather, they were full of knowledge which is commendable according to the apostolic directives for teachers (and learners too). The teachers I had were hard working, humble individuals who spent a great deal of time making themselves ready to do God's work at low pay. They hardly were full of greed and self indulgence as were those subjects in Christ's command in Mt 23! The same can be said IMO about the good men I now share the load with in our seminary.

Isn't it interesting that Jesus in Mt. 23 says that there is only one teacher yet Paul indicates that many are called to teach, and Paul , himself, calls these teachers!! So, does Paul break the command of His Lord do we suppose?

I do not mind the use of titles as "Doctor or "Professor" when such titles are honestly earned and indicate a person's function in the church. We call others pastors or missionaries or deacons or elders or evangelists, therefore, while I see the need for humility, I see no good reason to stop using titles in order to keep Christ's command in Mt 23.

IMO that is taken a bit out of context!


Bill

 

Rhet,

You are correct. I had 153 undergrad hours in bible/theology/english. TEDS granted me 21 quarter hours of transfer credit towards the M.Div. (the equivalent of one semester). Plus, as you have stated, I was allowed to take advanced courses for the systematic theology sequence, etc.

However, it still took essentially three years beyond the B.A.

My point is that a B.A. in Bible/theology should prepare a student to earn his Ph.D. in three to four years, not the 7 it now takes at TEDS, SBTS, etc.

 

Rhet,

Once again, you are correct! I never thought of it that way before, double gold, that is.

Since we are talking about a new theological degree, I would like to propose a three year university Ph.D. followed by a one year residency with a local pastor trained for this purpose. I mean, on site, evaluated, full-time church ministry work!

This would take four years and prepare a Ph.D. trained academic in real life practical hands on ministry. Upon completion of the residency, the student would earn the M.Div. degree. What do you think?

It is my opinion that the practical aspects of ministry can really only be learned through a hands-on approach.

 

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Hi Paul

Hands on is a good way to learn praxis. Many seminaries require an internship as you know.

But were our proposed doc to be in Bible or Theology, I think four years is cutting it a bit short. As you know the MDiv now or even the ThM is often the prereq to begin doc work. Doc work then (in the USA) requires two or more years of coursework plus a dissertation. No dissertation of substance IMO can be done in a year. My ThM thesis took me a year and it is much less sophisticated and substantial than my later effort.

But is that all time and learning a necessary foundation for an academic doc in Bible or Theology? IMO yes, but I confess I speak as an old, slow guy! The material is so very wide and deep that IMO, it could not be handled well in four years (MA/doc combo)

I took a short route as I did a foreign doc by research only. Still, it took three years. During most of it I was retired and so gave full time to it! I had the running start of completing the work for an MA, MDiv, and ThM in subjects cognate to the dissertational topic. Still it took me three years.

I don't see how after doing just the MA I could have begun doc research. I simply had not even the conceptual understanding of the issue of my dissertational research even after the MDiv! In fact, even after the MDiv I was quite unaware of the wide differences of opinion even within Bible believing evangelicalism on my subject( which is the Person of Christ). Maybe I'm just too dull, but if my experience reflects a common one, then a MA/doc doc in Bible or Theology in just four years really is inconceivable. Just my opinion!

Blessings,


Bill

[ January 31, 2006, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]

 

Rhet

Are you tainting your 'irony' with 'Guilt by Association,' 'Special Pleading,' or was there 'Faint Praise' in that ironic polemic?

 

We need a new paradigm in the religious studies.

Maybe we need to regain an old paradigm as well.

But, whatever it might be - we need it quickly.

The USA is the THIRD largest MISSION FIELD in the WORLD. With the best minister to non-Christian ratio in world,* we might also have the largest concentration of failed ministry in the world.

* I usually hear that "95% of the World's ministers are in the USA." I personally think this number is for Protestant and Baptist ministers.

 

UZ,

So true.

What I'm getting at is a 4-5 year doctorate for those who have a B.A. in Bible/Theology.

It seems that the seminaries could build on the undergraduate degree for those who want to enter teaching.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think an intense four year B.A. with Greek, Hebrew, German, OT and NT Introduction, hermeneutics, could prepare one for a four year Ph.D. program at the seminaries that would be different from what the seminaries now offer.

 

Here. Here.

 

Dr. Bob:
I have just finished looking over several seminaries that offer Master's degrees besides M.Div.. I found they can range from 32 Hrs. to 69-72, which I believe was the longest I found. There are several including the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary that have what you are hunting. I believe, if I am not mistaken the SBTS offers at least one Master's of 45 hours. Trinity Evangelical Divinity School offers one at 32 hrs. but implies it may take longer. Temple Bibvle Seminary offers one at 32 hrs. as well. Interestingly enough, some of the larger Seminaries required fewer hours for some of their Master's than some maybe lesser known. Every M.Div. I saw, by contrast, was between 90 at the fewest, and 96 at the most semester hours for that degree.
Just for what it's worth.
AS I said before, the offerings run the gamut, and are over the place, as well. And that is just the legit ones.
Ed

 

Dr. Bob,

I have often wondered why we have raised the bar a little higher on the graduate programs in Theology?

Yet, of the 12 that had the best instructor - 12 failed the final exam their first attempt, and only 11 retook it for a passing grade.

I apologize for the metaphor. But, I wonder why our model seems so different.