Protestant Purgatory?

[webdog]

I'm talking about the vessels in the masters house. Which vessels are the believers and which are the unbelievers?

You tell me. Your are the one equating the similie of the master's house with the Kingdom.

 

[Lacy Evans]

2 Timothy 2: But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.

Is the house of God not so divided?

bumpity-bump

Verse 12 makes the context clear. If we suffer we will reign.

Kingdom

 

[James_Newman]

You tell me. Your are the one equating the similie of the master's house with the Kingdom.

One can't make a distinction between saved and unsaved in this scripture because it isn't there. You keep inserting it where it doesn't belong.

 

[webdog]

bumpity-bump

Verse 12 makes the context clear. If we suffer we will reign.

Kingdom

...only it has nothing to do with the Kingdom...

 

[webdog]

One can't make a distinction between saved and unsaved in this scripture because it isn't there. You keep inserting it where it doesn't belong.

I have? :laugh: You are telling me that both are saved!

 

[James_Newman]

If the house is refering to the house of God, then they must be saved. Can you be brought into the house of God and be unsaved? If so, show it in the verse. It just says in a great house. If God's house is a great house, then it contains vessels unto honor and vessels unto dishonor. If you contend that these vessels represent saved(to honor) and unsaved(to dishonor), then the verse says you must purge yourself from these to be saved(to honor).

 

[Diggin in da Word]

There are sanctified believers and there are unsanctified believers.

In Romans 15:16, Paul wrote that we are sanctified 'by the Holy Ghost'.

So, by saying that there are sanctified and unsanctified believers, one is saying that God is a respector of persons, since it is the Holy Ghost that sanctifies the believer.

Also in 1 Corinthians, we read:

1 Corinthians 6:11 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed,

but ye are sanctified

, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The saved are no longer murderers, drunkards, extortioners, etc., They are washed by the Word, sanctified by the Holy Ghost, and justified by putting on Christ and naming Him as Lord and Savior.

If any continue in the sins of Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6 and do not repent of those sins, those are none of His. They are not saved.

A saved person puts on the Lord Christ and walks in newness of life, no longer entangled with the sinful flesh; although, we certainly may fall from time to time.

But, if and when we do sin, we have Christ standing in our behalf. He pleads our case before the Father.

And when He shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If we are like Him at that point, why would He judge us unworthy to be in His Kingdom?

 

[James_Newman]

In Romans 15:16, Paul wrote that we are sanctified 'by the Holy Ghost'.

So, by saying that there are sanctified and unsanctified believers, one is saying that God is a respector of persons, since it is the Holy Ghost that sanctifies the believer.

Also in 1 Corinthians, we read:

1 Corinthians 6:11 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, , but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The saved are no longer murderers, drunkards, extortioners, etc., They are washed by the Word, sanctified by the Holy Ghost, and justified by putting on Christ and naming Him as Lord and Savior.

If any continue in the sins of Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6 and do not repent of those sins, those are none of His. They are not saved.

A saved person puts on the Lord Christ and walks in newness of life, no longer entangled with the sinful flesh; although, we certainly may fall from time to time.

But, if and when we do sin, we have Christ standing in our behalf. He pleads our case before the Father.

And when He shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. If we are like Him at that point, why would He judge us unworthy to be in His Kingdom?

So what is the answer?
A) Purge yourself from these that you may be saved.
B) There is a sanctification beyond the initial common salvation.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

James, is Christ able to keep that which we have committed to Him?

Yes? or No?

 

[J. Jump]

James, is Christ able to keep that which we have committed to Him?

Yes? or No?

Well I know this question is not addressed to me, but it has already been answered. And the answer is yes. The key to it is "that which we have committed."

He is pefectly able to keep us if we are committed to Him! The question is what about those that are uncommitted to Him? If you say they are unsaved then that is works based salvation, because the Bible does say believe and commit, it just says believe and you "will be" saved.

Not may be saved if you really commit yourself to Him, but if you believe in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God you WILL BE saved.

What happens after that very moment you believe is non-essential to spiritual salvation, because spiritual salvation is no longer a topic of discussion as far as God has concerned.

As far as God has concerned you have applied the blood of the Lamb and He is now dealing with you in respect to you moving into the promised land flowing with milk and honey! He no longer deals with a person in respect to spiritual salvation, but in respect to their walk (faithfulness, obedience, etc.).

 

[James_Newman]

Absolutely. Now the question is, what have you committed unto Him?

1 Peter 4:19
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

 

[James_Newman]

If you want to know how to commit your soul to Him, it's like this.

Matthew 16:24-27
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Now, is this how an unsaved sinner becomes a child of God?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

What have I committed unto Him? My trust that His shed blood was the atonement needed for my sins, my trust that He is faithful, that He will contine the work He has started in me, the trust that He will carry me into His kingdom, that He is true to His Word when He says He will not cast away those who have come to Him.

 

[James_Newman]

What have I committed unto Him? My trust that His shed blood was the atonement needed for my sins, my trust that He is faithful, that He will contine the work He has started in me, the trust that He will carry me into His kingdom, that He is true to His Word when He says He will not cast away those who have come to Him.

But we have to put everything in it's proper context.

John 6:37-39
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Luke 6:47-49
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built a house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built a house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Just because your house falls down, that doesn't mean you won't be raised up on the last day, brother.

 

[BobRyan]

If the verse is talking about sanctification, then the meaning is clear. The bible distinguishes between sanctified and unsanctified, vessels unto honor and vessels unto dishonor. These are members of the same household. There are sanctified believers and there are unsanctified believers. So all the shouting about dividing the body of Christ, what does it amount to? God himself makes division between believers.

Indeed. SHeep vs Goats.

In Matt 7 it is those on the wide road vs those on the narrow road.

In Romans 2 it is those who inherit eternal life and those who go away into destruction of fire and brimstone.

In John 15 it is those who remain IN the vine of Christ and those that are removed from Christ - withered - dead - and then burned.

In Rom 11 it is those that remain by faith in Christ as branches "in Him" vs those without faith that are removed from Christ.

Hint: There is NO salvation outside of Christ.

In Rev 3 we see the two groups -- one as having Christ In fellowhip on the INSIDE - and the others separated from Christ with Christ on the OUTSIDE knocking.

But there is NO salvatin apart from Christ - NO salvation outside of Christ. It is really that simple.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[J. Jump]

In Rev 3 we see the two groups -- one as having Christ In fellowhip on the INSIDE - and the others separated from Christ with Christ on the OUTSIDE knocking.

Bob the church is the audience there not unsaved folks. The context is the saved not the unsaved. Revelation 3 is not speaking of spiritual salvation.

 

[webdog]

Bob the church is the audience there not unsaved folks. The context is the saved not the unsaved. Revelation 3 is not speaking of spiritual salvation.

The church at Laodicea was a church in name only. They practiced angel worship, gnosticism and judaism. Hardly qualities of a true church, hence the reason Christ "vomits" them out of His mouth. You mention the teachings of the modern church and how satan has deceived it, well this is one of those instances. Teaching on Rev. 3:20 has God rather having someone being lost or "on fire" for the Lord than in between. This is not what the text is saying. Knowledge of the aquduct system flowing into Laodicea puts this into proper perspective.

 

[Hope of Glory]

In order to be used by God, we neet to be a clean vessel. NOTHING to do with works salvation OR M.E.!

When I was growing up on the farm, we had "vessels of dishonor" that we used, and we used them nightly...

Guess what?

They were our vessels. They weren't the neighbor's vessel or some stranger's vessel.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I think this is where we don't agree. You are talking only about believers. There are unsanctified unbelievers...what I believe that text to say. We (believers) are to come out of them (unbelievers) in the way we live our lives so God can use us (sanctification).

And if we don't come out of them and become sanctified?

Are we vessels of honor?

Do we become unsaved?

Something else?

 

[Hope of Glory]

If any continue in the sins of Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6 and do not repent of those sins, those are none of His. They are not saved.

Oooh! Back to being saved by works again! Woo hoo!

Works, works, works... We got works! We're saved by works!

How do I know?

Diggin told me so!