Protestant Purgatory?

[Blammo]

Except for the ones who don't have fruit, they aren't really saved. Examine yourself and make sure you really believe.

2 Corinthians 13:6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[James_Newman]

It's not very clear, is there some super secret reason for that? Would God intentionaly hide this secret from most of the saved?

I don't think He has intentionally hidden it, once I saw it, I see it all throughout the bible. But I think people are unwilling to see it. Nevertheless, the word says few there be that find it.

 

[Blammo]

I don't think He has intentionally hidden it, once I saw it, I see it all throughout the bible. But I think people are unwilling to see it. Nevertheless, the word says few there be that find it.

To me, it seems a lot like calvinism. You have to twist the meanings of many verses in the Bible to make it work. But, once you accept it, you are stuck with it for life.

 

[James_Newman]

The Bible tells us to rightly divide the Word...not salvation.

But Christ is the word, and Christ is not divided! Go figure?

 

[James_Newman]

To me, it seems a lot like calvinism. You have to twist the meanings of many verses in the Bible to make it work. But, once you accept it, you are stuck with it for life.

The calvinists have some truth, there is a lot of scripture that speaks of election, and predestination, etc... but by applying these things to the common salvation, they deny that Christ died to save 'whosoever'. I think that as far as the kingdom is concerned, God has his elect. But He will not deny the whosoevers on the last day.

John 7:37
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Any man may come and drink that living water. But the kingdom He has promised to them that love Him.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Amen :thumbs: A single moment in time of faith is all that's required for eternal life...but a lifetime of works is required to "live" for 1000 years?

Amen! What a cool trade huh? a few tears of obedience, watchfulness, and mercifulness for 1000 years of GLORY!

Praise God! What a deal!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Being a 'son' is not talking about family relationship so much as it is talking about recieving an inheritance.

Yes. Son-ship is position. We are born into the family of God, but we are adopted (accepted) into positions of son-ship.

One thing that took me years to realize is that although I call my child "son" and have done so since before he was born, the Greek uses several different words to denote "child", and those differences generally are positional.

Also, in modern English, we use "adopt" to mean to place into a family. The Greek word means "son placement", which is positional within the family, not into the family. Princeton even gives "accept" as the primary meaning of "adopt".

Servants could be placed into a position of "son", while natural offspring could be omitted. Did the natural offspring still have an inheritance? Well, unless they were excluded for some specific reason, as Reuben, yes they did. But, they did not have the position and honor and same inheritance as a "son".

 

[Hope of Glory]

How childish.

From what I see, Diggin is not saying we are saved by works, but by coming out of the works of the flesh. Diggin has said over and over that we are saved through faith and you accuse him of saying things he did not say.

Diggin's statement:


says not one thing about a person being saved by works. You, Hope of Glory, need to quit letting your tongue and your heart be used by the devil.

If you are "unsaved" by your works, you are still saved by works. If you prove you're saved by your works, you're saved by works.

Works are works are works, even if you try to backload them into being saved.

"If you continue in sins" is works.

His words, which you quoted are, "If any continue in the sins of Galatians 5 and 1 Corinthians 6 and do not repent of those sins, those are none of His. They are not saved."

They are his exact words. I've even pasted them here for all to see them again.

Works are works are works, no matter how you try to obfuscate them.

The only work we need to be saved was done by Jesus on the cross.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Seems to me, we are either saved or we are not.

Amen! That's precisely what Scripture tells us. No works are involved in becoming, staying, or proving that we're saved.

You either accept the gift or you reject it, just as a baby is either born or he is not.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Blammo,

God is not the author of confusion. Believe His Word, the Holy Bible. Don't fall for the errors that these guys are preaching.

All who are saved through faith in Christ will enter the kingdom. No exceptions.

So, we're all going to be ruling and reigning...

Hmm...

I wonder who we'll be ruling and reigning over?

Maybe the unsaved in hell?

 

[Hope of Glory]

To me, it seems a lot like calvinism. You have to twist the meanings of many verses in the Bible to make it work. But, once you accept it, you are stuck with it for life.

I find it interesting that when you look at the words in Scripture and exactly what they are saying, you are suddenly "twisting" Scripture.

But, I have learned from Diggin this week that singular is really plural. But, that's not twisting. Although, it's twisting to say that singular is really singular.

 

[webdog]

So, we're all going to be ruling and reigning...

Hmm...

I wonder who we'll be ruling and reigning over?

Maybe the unsaved in hell?

That's a strawman. Entering and ruling and reigning are not synonymous, and you know that.

 

[webdog]

Amen! What a cool trade huh? a few tears of obedience, watchfulness, and mercifulness for 1000 years of GLORY!

Praise God! What a deal!

...yeah, too bad the Bible doesn't teach that though, huh?

 

[Hope of Glory]

That's a strawman. Entering and ruling and reigning are not synonymous, and you know that.

They are precisely synonymous. It's talking about taking a better inheritance.

It's like Moses: He was in the Promised Land while still in Goshen. Yet, he did not get to enter into the Land Flowing with Milk and Honey (the better inheritance) because of disobedience. He was saved when he left, yet he fell short of entering in, even after being baptized and wandering in the desert. Did all of the children of Israel enter into that better inheritance? But, weren't they all part of Israel?

 

[Hope of Glory]

...yeah, too bad the Bible doesn't teach that though, huh?

Then, what is the hope of glory?

Are you hoping that you're saved?

 

[Blammo]

I find it interesting that when you look at the words in Scripture and exactly what they are saying, you are suddenly "twisting" Scripture.

Maybe you don't "twist" the words in Scripture. Let's see if you will add to "exactly what they are saying".

Where do you find works in these verses?

John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Where do you find works in these verses?

John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1) The Israelites passed through Water on both sides of the wilderness, after they had the blood applied in Egypt. Passing through the water was had to do with Kingdom entrance and ther walk not their savation. (That was obtained when the blood was shed. The NT called it a baptism.
2) The ashes of the Red Heifer were mixed with water to create the "water of Separation". Notice the heifer was killed and blood shed then afterwards water was added. Water (works) for daily separation.
3) Noah was "saved by the water" 1 Peter 3:19-21, which the NT calls "baptism"
4) AFTER he shed his blood, said "It is finished" and died, Jesus shed "blood and water" !
5) Peter was commanded to let Christ wash his feet (with water) and clean them (his walk) even though he was already "clean every whit". And he was warned that "If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me."
6) Baptism is for the "remission of sins" but we are not saved (spiritually) by baptism? It (Water) remits the sins we commit in our walk and it is the first step of obedience in our walk as we follow Christ. We are "saved by water" just like Noah was, in the second sense. As we obey (Water) our Father, we "save" ourselves from the flood of judgment.


There is more. But I don't see how, in light of all the OT and NT scripture, you can keep from seeing "works" in that verse.

Notice:

Born Again (Blood/death alone) "SEE The Kingdom"
Born of Water and Spirit (Water and Blood) "ENTER the Kingdom"

Lacy

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The blood and water gushed from His side after He died, not before.\

He did not cry, 'It is finished' after the blood and water was shed, but before.

 

[Blammo]

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Where did the water go?

Seriously, could it be the water birth is referring to the natural birth, (flesh), in the following verse? Nicodemus had just asked, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?".

 

[Diggin in da Word]

It has been said before concerning John 3:5, and I tend to agree...

The water referred to here was Christ referring to His death on the cross. Water indeed came froth from His side when the soldier pierced Him.

We know also that Jesus Christ was, and is the living water.

Also, we are told that Christ cleansed the church by the 'washing of water, by the word'.