Proverbs 23:31

[Helen]

If you click on this link (you may have to wait for the ad to disappear):
http://italianfood.about.com/od/italylivingvisiting/ig/Italian-Foods/How-They-Used-To-Do-It.htm

you will see an ancient olive press. This is what is referred to as 'hand pressed' olives -- it is operated by (a very strong) hand and not electricity. It has nothing to do with hand squeezing olives.

So when the verse speaks of 'gathering' oil, it is referring to that which makes the oil, as Tim's translation correctly pointed out.

Now, I won't identify who sent me the following PM, but the information in it is interesting:

this nonsense on that wine thread where these people are saying that our Lord drank grape juice is such rubbish ... I was given some grapes a few years ago and proceeded to make juice from them, as I was putting them through the juicer the yeast on them was reacting with the natural sugar in the fruit and the skins (waste ) was fermenting. It was warm in the kitchen at the time. Fruit with the yeast on it will ferment almost at once. I fear these people do not know a lot about what they are talking about, and I agree with you on this. They don`t realise that yeast+sugar+ warmth = alcohol...... pretty quickly.

Grape harvesting time is a warm time of year. Unlike getting oil from olives, it may be very possible to get 'new wine' right out in the field, by the end of the day. The fermentation process does start immediately.

Nor should fermentation be confused with rot or corruption. It is neither.

Yes, a Christian can drink wine or eat meat without being a drunk or a glutton. There is a time and a place for both.

If you want something that is bad for you, go snack on a double cheeseburger, fries, and that milkshake. That does FAR more harm to your body than a glass of wine with a steak dinner.

 

[DeeJay]

Diggen

So you are now saying it did take a press to extract oil.

WHat happened to cheese cloth an poles.

I believe I have been saying it needed a press all along.

 

[webdog]

I will have to disagree with you on this one Web.

That's fine...It wouldn't be any fun if we agreed on everything, now, would it :laugh:

While it's one thing to disagree about non essentials (this being one of them), I would hope that this can be a lesson to all that because two brothers don't see eye to eye on non essential matters, Romans 14 tells us we are to respect each other, and not force our own personal convictions onto someone else.

 

[Brother Bob]

It also says they can press them with a hand jack too Helen.

 

[Brother Bob]

we have always been that way Web.

 

[Brother Bob]

The word dagan is translated as wheat... so dagan in the hebrew can be translated as something other than corn....

Hey Tim; please tell us if it can be translated as "corn"?

 

[DeeJay]

It also says they can press them with a hand jack too Helen.

Think about this for a second.

They took a hand jack like press to each tree along with a container. Picked some olives, pitted and washed the olives then pressed the oil out into a container then pulled the hand jack and the container to another tree and repeted.

Would you do it that way or would you pick all of the olives and take them to one place where your press and containers were. Have a table set up to pit the olives on and a container of water to wash the olives and press them ALL at one time.

 

[Brother Bob]

Corn in Hebrew = 1715 dagan daw-gawn' from 1711; properly, increase, i.e. grain:--corn ((floor)), wheat.

Now, laugh Deejay; it don't look good on you but go ahead anyway and Tim did intentionally mislead us as to the diffinition of the word "corn".

 

[Brother Bob]

DeeJay; You are the one who better be thinking for you are questioning God, not me.

So when the verse speaks of 'gathering' oil, it is referring to that which makes the oil, as Tim's translation correctly pointed out.

which translation is that Helen, the one he gave us about "corn" which does mean "corn" and Tim led us to believe it meant something else.

 

[tinytim]

Hey Tim; please tell us if it can be translated as "corn"?

What? of course it can, here:
Deuteronomy 11:14
(14) That I will give [you] the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

But God said,

ונתתי מטר־ארצכם בעתו יורה ומלקושׁ ואספת דגנך ותירשׁך ויצהרך

and in that verse, dagan is translated as corn......just like in most of the OT, but it can be also wheat.

I fail to see your point.
but I am tired so I might not be thinking straight.​

 

[Brother Bob]

But God said,

ונתתי מטר־ארצכם בעתו יורה ומלקושׁ ואספת דגנך ותירשׁך ויצהרך​

and in that verse, dagan is translated as corn......just like in most of the OT, but it can be also wheat.​

I fail to see your point.
but I am tired so I might not be thinking straight.​

Because the Bible says "corn" and you try to mislead us to try and make me look bad which did not work, that sir is the point. You must think the rest of us can't look up definitions too.

I just noticed the word in Hebrew for corn can also be translated as mill, or wheat.... sooooo

Did they grind the corn in the fields also before they brought it in?

Here is your misleading quote.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bedtime have a good night all maybe we get a better start tomorrow.

 

[DeeJay]

DeeJay; You are the one who better be thinking for you are questioning God, not me.




which translation is that Helen, the one he gave us about "corn" which does mean "corn" and Tim led us to believe it meant something else.

It seems that questioning you is the same as questioning God. In your mind.

And since you can not argue the issue at hand with out calling others unbelievers and accusing others of making fun of God. Since that is the only hand hold you can achieve on the issue. I am going to bow out.

You go ahead and accuse and feel superiour and self righoutous I will do what I know to be right.

 

[DeeJay]

Because the Bible says "corn" and you try to mislead us to try and make me look bad which did not work, that sir is the point. You must think the rest of us can't look up definitions too.


Here is your misleading quote.

YOu make yourself look bad. Greek :laugh:

 

[tinytim]

Bob, you were the one that said that they gathered oil by:

"I could place a bucket up to the olive tree and squeeze the

oil out if I wanted to and who is to say that is not how they

did it."
You also said that the definition I gave was in Greek.

I am not trying to make you look bad... I am merely trying to point out that the definition for "corn" can also mean wheat... BTW, you are right, it is not the "corn" we think of today, which is actually maize.

And since wheat was taken out of the fields to process it, the olives would have been too.
And the grapes...

That is just good common sense.

God is right... Obviously!
His word is right... obviously!

He said they brought corn, oil, and wine out of the fields....
I agree too.

but we are disagreeing on the way they brought it out.....
I say they brought it out in the olives and grapes, you say they brought it out after they processed it.

BTW, why does it matter?

I'm going to bed... gotta get up early.
I still love you even if we disagree on this..

We both agree they brought it out. That is all that matters.

 

[Brother Bob]

DeeJay;
YOu make yourself look bad. Greek :laugh:

Bob; I will let you answer your own post with your post.

And since you can not argue the issue at hand with out calling others unbelievers and accusing others of making fun of God. Since that is the only hand hold you can achieve on the issue. I am going to bow out.

You go ahead and accuse and feel superiour and self righoutous I will do what I know to be right.

all I have to do is copy one of your post to answer another of your post. Name calling? I haven't called anyone anything that I can remember. You all threw all those comments at me but in reality you were throwing them at God for it was His words and I will say them again before I go to bed.

Deuteronomy, chapter 11

13: And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love

the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

14: That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in

thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

Remember, this is God speaking and not me. You wan't to say it is something else go right ahead.

 

[DeeJay]

all I have to do is copy one of your post to answer another of your post. Name calling? I haven't called anyone anything that I can remember. You all threw all those comments at me but in reality you were throwing them at God for it was His words and I will say them again before I go to bed.

And you will not acknolage that (like I have said) I am taking issue with the way you interpret Gods word. I have no issue with Gods word itself.

But the acusation is the only thing you have in an argument. It is hurtfull from somebody who is suposeto be a brother. I consider you a brother even though I doubt that you consider me one. Well nothing I can do about that but it is sad.

I come here to this board because I have very few Christian friends. Day to day I run into few to none Christians. So I come here so Brother bob and digen can accuse and judge. SO you can feel better then somebody. I have not accused you of being an unbeliever I just think you are wrong on a minor issue. You have several times accused me of being an unbeliever and of mocking Gods word. YOU are wrong.

Your self-rigoutousness is your alcohol and you are drunk out of your mind on it.

 

[DeeJay]

Remember, this is God speaking and not me. You wan't to say it is something else go right ahead.

I say Gods word is perfict.

I say your understanding of Gods word is wrong.

 

[Brother Bob]

"I could place a bucket up to the olive tree and squeeze the

oil out if I wanted to and who is to say that is not how they

did it."

Tim, I did not say this. Please show me where I made this statement. I was just following what God said when He said they gathered the oil from the fields. I used His words.

 

[Brother Bob]

I say Gods word is perfict. (perfect)

I say your understanding of Gods word is wrong.

God said they gathered the oil from the fields do you deny that?