Proverbs 23:31

There are also tones more antioxidants in GRAPE SEEDS!

Git ta chewing winos!

 

I'm sorry, but you are twisting it when you say it doesn't.

 

A toast to you Helen. In all sobriety the next time I remember Him as I eat the bread and drink the wine afterwards, which is oft as I do it, I'll know there are others' that believe this is what He desires.

My Body broken, and my Blood of life to make "glad the heart" of man was given to you. Do you this in remembrance of me.

 

It is the alcohol in wine which prevents corruption.

It is man's misuse of that alcohol which contributes to problems.

This is the same picture that is in many things.

Sugar also prevents corruption (mold, etc.). Too much of it and you can become very sick -- even diabetic.

Salt prevents corruption. Too much of it will kill you.

 

I always wondered why the Good Samaritan poured oil and wine into the baeaten man's wounds.

Since "wine" in the Bible is the kind without alcohol, pouring it into wounds would have served to significantly hasten bacterial growth.

Maybe that Samaritan feller wern't so good after all.

 

It starts fermenting on the vine and on the ground sometimes. That's why it's illegal to hunt in vineyards in many places. The birds eat a bunch grapes, get drunk and can't fly.

 

Why do you continuously twist the concept of a drink of wine in such a way that you equate it with drunkeness? Do you also equate a bite of hamburger with gluttony?

 

When D.L. Moody visited C.H. Spurgeon for the first time, Spurgeon answered his door smoking a cigar, something he enjoyed for many years in moderation. Moody immediately criticized Spurgeon.

Spurgeon then poked his finger into Moody's burgeoning, oversized belly. Moody smiled and understood.

Both men shut up on the matters after that.

---------------------------------------------

 

Again, you are thinking of 20th century wines. Alcohol does not prevent corruption. Where does such an idea come from? The wines of the time of Christ, especially those made by the Israelites had such a bad taste to them, that they often added things like honey and even juniper berries. The addition of such foreign matter contributed to the problem of alcohol being a corrupted beverage, not the pure beverage that some think it to be. The fruit of the vine was grape juice. That is what Jesus made; that is what Jesus drank at the Passover; Last Supper. It was not fermented. It was unleavened grape juice. It was a picture of his sinless blood. It was in obedience to the Word of God, which said that there was to be no leaven in the house hold in the days of unleavened bread. Would Christ go against his Word? No!
DHK

 

The alcohol in the drink is what corrupts the drinki.

And can we see proof that sugar prevents corruption??? Seems like a simple phone call to a local Dentist will prove that statement to be false---I mean, Helen---think about it----when was the last time you heard the Dentist tell you----"Ummmmm, Helen!!! Dear Lady!!! To prevent cavitities, tooth decay, and Gengivitis----make sure to eat plenty of sugar candy!!!!!!!"

 

Blackbird, sugar is a preservative. That is why we make jellies and jams. To preserve the fruit. That is why it is called 'preserves'. The reason that this makes tooth decay is because the sugar feeds the bacteria present in the mouth. Sugar kills most fungus. The companies producing fungicides for your lawn really don't want you to know this, but the next time your lawn has a patch of fungus from wet weather, pour a little 7-Up on it.

Yes, sugar is used as a preservative. The fact that it can break down in our mouths and we don't clean our mouths afterwards is not the fault of the sugar!

We use sugar to coat apples so they won't turn brown after cutting. Or peaches, etc.

You want a corrupted fruit juice? Try a little pasteurized apple or grape juice which has been opened and set out for a few days. Lovely white fuzzy stuff on top, right? That does not happen with alcoholic beverages unless and until the alcohol itself has evaporated.

Alcohol in more than small amounts may corrupt a man, but it never corrupted a grape.

 

So, if it doesn't corrupt a grape --- it must be good for us!!!

Alcohol is an inhibitor---it is an intoxicant and is an influencer---it is mind altering!

I choose to abstain from the sale and use of it as an alcoholic beverage---I'd rather be a sober John the Baptist with no other outside influencer inside me other than the sweet Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, thank you!!!

 

Now THAT'S interesting reasoning! Sort of like saying that because black widow poison doesn't affect a dog, it must be good for us, too....

Fermentation is a natural process which does not rot the grape, but rather changes its sugars and, in the process, produces alcohol.

It is certainly an inhibitor -- in inhibits rot! Yes, it is an intoxicant, which is why we are warned against drunkenness. An influencer? So is just about everything in creation, one way or another -- especially people! Mind-altering? For me, so is a lovely sunset, beautiful music -- both can 'lift my spirits'. Certainly prayer is mind-altering. I understand what you are saying about over/mis use of wine, but the wine itself is not the culprit any more than sugar or salt is. It is what we do with it which can be wrong.

I appreciate your point of view. The fact is, however, that you are influenced by everything that is part of your life. I'm glad that what you choose to pay primary attention to is our Lord, however.

Please remember that Jesus did mention about John the Baptist that the least in the kingdom of heaven was greater than he...
Matthew 11:11

 

NOT going o join the party, Not going to.....Arrrrggg!

Okay, Blackbird, I just have to ask since you brought it up. Did John the Baptist not abstain because he had the "vow of the Nazarine" upon him from birth and not because drinking wine was generally considered a sin for everyone?

 

There is no vow of the "Nazarene"--it was a "Nazarite" vow--Jesus was a Nazarene-- a Nazarene is a person who comes from Nazareth. John the Baptist was a Nazarite as was Samson.

NAZARITE, NAZIRITE

(separated). One who made a special vow of dedication to God (Nu 6:2-21; Jg 13:5,7; 16:17; Lu 1:15). The characteristics of the Nazarite vow: (1) It was voluntary. (2) Any true Israelite could make the vow (Nu 6:2). (3) It was a vow both men and women could make (Nu 6:2). (4) It was a vow of total consecration and separation (Nu 6:2,5-8). (5) It was a vow of reproach. This is symbolized by the fact that the man was not to cut his hair (compare Nu 6:5; 1Co 11:14). (6) It involved extreme caution (Nu 6:9). (7) God was to be above all other relationships (Nu 6:7). Though the Nazarite was ordinarily a vow voluntarily taken, there were examples of men ordained of God to be Nazarites (Am 2:11): Samson (Jg 13:5); Samuel (1Sa 1:11); John the Baptist (Lu 1:15)

Way of Life Encyclopedia

 

Thank You Linda. I knew when I typed it that I didn't have the right tense, but was in to big of a hurry to look it up.

Question still stands: Was not the vow placed on John by God before his birth the reason he abstained from drinking wine and not the idea that it was sin to drink wine?

Oh, and I've thought of another question: All you folks arguing about what kind of wine the Bible speaks of, do you not believe that if God meant to speak as to non-acoholic wine He would have clearly said grape juice? Is our God so weak that He can't see to the proper translation of the Word that He embodies?