His Blood Spoke My Name said:
"The best kind of wine is that which is most pleasant to him who drinks it.
-- Pliny
"In wine there is health"
-- Pliny
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Proverbs 23:31
- Thread starter His Blood Spoke My Name
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"The best kind of wine is that which is most pleasant to him who drinks it.
-- Pliny
"In wine there is health"
-- Pliny
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
wine (yayin, oinos) can be both fermented and unfermented, depending on the context.
strong drink (shekar) can be both fermented and unfermented, depending on the context.
strong drink (shekar) can be both fermented and unfermented, depending on the context.
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
It has been shown many times in the Word of God. Are you calling that biased?
Charles Meadows
New Member
You must remember, Wikipedia is information given by people anywhere.
Just like Bible commentaries.
The issue here is less about whether or not Jesus actually drank wine - and more about your ability to know that for certain when the Bible is not clear on it. When the Bible is not specific on something I will not presume to speak for God as if my word were inerrant. It seems to me that this is what you are doing - and that is why I find your posts so erroneous.
Just like Bible commentaries.
The issue here is less about whether or not Jesus actually drank wine - and more about your ability to know that for certain when the Bible is not clear on it. When the Bible is not specific on something I will not presume to speak for God as if my word were inerrant. It seems to me that this is what you are doing - and that is why I find your posts so erroneous.
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
No, YOU'VE interpreted it as meaning 'juice' to fit your belief that God would not condone the drinking of alcohol. I don't see any verse where 'wine' is unquestionably truly meaning juice when it can also be translated 'wine' (and I'm not talking about the thought that if God speaks positively about it then it must be juice since He CAN'T mean wine). When 'juice' is meant it is a different term than 'wine' as in Numbers 6:3 - "he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried" If the Hebrew uses 2 different terms as it does here, then when meaning juice in a text, then I surely think they would have used that word! I don't see ANYWHERE else that says that these 2 terms could mean an unfermented drink - especially 'strong drink'!
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
yer not looking with the intent to see what God is saying, yer looking with the natural eyes; the ones that see all wine today has some amount of alcohol.
Because of this your heart and your mind are clouded from seeing the truth.
Because of this your heart and your mind are clouded from seeing the truth.
Charles Meadows
New Member
yer not looking with the intent to see what God is saying, yer looking with the natural eyes; the ones that see all wine today has some amount of alcohol.
You thus assert that anyone disagreeing with your interpretation is "unspiritual". Scripture is not open to private interpretation.
You thus assert that anyone disagreeing with your interpretation is "unspiritual". Scripture is not open to private interpretation.
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
You mean the truth of what God actually said or what you're saying He said as you look through YOUR clouded heart and mind. I'm reading the interpretation as what it says - you're looking through the glasses of not liking alcohol and making Scripture say what it clearly doesn't.
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
annsni said:
Everything I have said from Scripture was stated in context, so Yes, the truth of what God said, and what I said He said.
My heart and mind are not clouded. It is not I who advocates that which God forbade.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
No, instead you are forbidding that which God didn't forbid! Isn't that what the Pharisees did?
When God wanted something forbidden He did so clearly so there was no doubt that man was NOT to it! Thou shalt not kill, is pretty clear, so is Thou shalt not commit adultry, covet your neighbors belongings, bear false witness against your neighbor or steal. And even clearer is thou shalt not have other gods before you.
Huh, when God wishes to be clear He is crystal clear. I wonder, since God did not clearly say, "thou shalt not drink any fermented beverages" if He might have expected us to use the intelligence that He endowed us with at creation along with the guideline of don't be a drunk to decide for ourselves, based on our individual circumstances, whether to drink alcohol and how much can be tolorated before crossing the line into becoming a drunkard?
Remember, Paul says we are free to do all things but all things are not expedient. If you said "I don't drink alcohol because I'm afraid my taking a drink might keep someone from the saving knowledge of Christ", I would support your view wholeheartedly. But you can't make the Bible say something that it doesn't, and the Bible doesn't say drinking alcohol is a sin.
BTW, you better go through your cabinets and toss all that cough syrup and vanilla flavoring cause one of the main ingredients of both is alcohol!
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
who's to say I have cough syrups with alcohol? I use a non alcoholic cough syrup when I need such medicine. And vanilla flavoring? I don't even cook with the stuff, so try again.
And, BTW, God does forbid it. Prov. 23:31 Look not thou...
And, BTW, God does forbid it. Prov. 23:31 Look not thou...
HBSMN, I just spent a little time checking something. As I write this, you have posted 445 times. Since this past mid-July, almost everything you have posted has been about alcoholic beverages! You did post that if anyone did not believe in hell he or she was not saved. You had a little computer trouble and you did post a joke in the humor section.
Other than that, and maybe one or two other posts, all you have done is to go on the rampage about wine in particular, followed closely by leavening in general.
Did you know there is more to the Christian faith than condemning others over a disputable point? You seem totally fixated on this subject and that cannot be good for your Christian walk.
I urge you to relax a bit, read the rest of the Bible, and spend time just loving the Lord and your siblings in Christ.
Other than that, and maybe one or two other posts, all you have done is to go on the rampage about wine in particular, followed closely by leavening in general.
Did you know there is more to the Christian faith than condemning others over a disputable point? You seem totally fixated on this subject and that cannot be good for your Christian walk.
I urge you to relax a bit, read the rest of the Bible, and spend time just loving the Lord and your siblings in Christ.
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
Please "untwist" Genesis 49:11, and Isaiah 63:2-6 for us. We need some help here if you believe they remain "twisted". I "untwisted", but not to your liking. What does your "insight" show these verses to mean? The Holy Spirit interprets for us as we divide His Word.
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
Helen said:
Helen,
Did you know God calls some to do specific jobs? Such as warn those who are walking hand in hand with the devil unknowingly by drinking his brew?
Brother Bob
New Member
Helen;
You must have access to the moderators forum to be able to check all that out?
You must have access to the moderators forum to be able to check all that out?
menageriekeeper
Active Member
You know, any time someone makes a demand on my spiritual life based solely on ONE verse, I get a little suspicous. So lets take a nice long look at the context of Proverbs 23:31.
What is it really that Solomon is warning his son about? Going out partying. Go out for the purposes of getting drunk. He's not talking about having a glass of wine with supper. Solomon is warning his son about not being associated with the wrong crowd of people (foriegn women) who think nothing of being drunk all day and gives his son an example of what's going to happen if he does.
You know, I have to do this on an almost daily basis with my own children. It's not the alcohol I'm worried about, it the bad influence! Alcohol abuse doesn't come about by simply drinking a glass of wine with dinner. It comes from being with the wrong crowd of people who put their own selfish wants between themselves and God. Wine is the least of their problems!
I can hear Solomon telling his son, "You know, if you hang out with those foriegn women they're going to persuade you to do things you wouldn't normally do. They going to get you drunk. They're going to make you a drunkard and encourage you to drink so much that you'll wake up bruised and battered and not even knowing WHY you are. You're not going to even remember what you did that caused the bruises and then on top of that, you going to want more to drink! Stay away from those folks!"
And Solomon certainly knew what he was talking about! (think 1000 women that turned his heart from God)
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His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
Now, that is one of the most ridiculous explanations of that passage I have heard yet.
Solomon warning his son not to hang out with the wrong crowd? I see Proverbs 20:1 in effect in that statement big time.
If that was what Solomon was saying, he would have said in verse 31, Go thou not out with the drunkards. No, he did not say that. He said:
Pr 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, When it sparkleth in the cup, When it goeth down smoothly:
He was specifically saying 'Have nothing to do with alcoholic beverage.
Try again. But please, go back and study some more first.
Solomon warning his son not to hang out with the wrong crowd? I see Proverbs 20:1 in effect in that statement big time.
If that was what Solomon was saying, he would have said in verse 31, Go thou not out with the drunkards. No, he did not say that. He said:
Pr 23:31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, When it sparkleth in the cup, When it goeth down smoothly:
He was specifically saying 'Have nothing to do with alcoholic beverage.
Try again. But please, go back and study some more first.
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