Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Says who? DHK's philosophy? Well I believe your philosophy is in error.
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Psalms 51:5
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
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HP: Says who? DHK's philosophy? Well I believe your philosophy is in error.
HP: That is a verse for a different thread, but I will give you a short answer. It says nothing about a sinful nature from birth, nor does it mention original sin. Nor does it say babies are born sinful, nor does it insinuate that the word ‘children’ has anything directly related to an actual age. That is enough said on that verse for this thread from me. We are suppose to limit our conversation as much as we possibly can to Psalms 51:5 on this thread.
You are arguing against original sin. I'm asking what is "nature" and when does "nature" start?
As per my illustration let me ask you.
If you give a child a gift what are the conditions involved for the child to obtain the gift?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Excellent question by the way. :thumbs:
Some gifts I might give with no conditions whatsoever. Other I might give with clearly stated conditions, such as a prisoner might receive when being granted a pardon (ring a bell?) Some might be granted with conditions not only in receiving a gift, but also must keep other conditions subsequent to the initial gift to retain such freedom. A pardon is once again an excellent example of such a gift. I believe a pardon is about the closest thing to a picture of salvation in this present world, and for that reason I use it as an illustration so often. It releases us from the stains of sins that are past ( Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; ) while still requiring subsequent obedience to make our eternal home certain. " Joh 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
There are many more passages but having listed them many times I will stop with these two.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: We are born with a proclivity to sin that is indeed part of our nature, our physical makeup as infants, but in the infant and child stage it is not sin but rather is an influence or proclivity that will lead to sin once reaching an age of accountability and becoming a moral agent. Only as one yields to this proclivity or nature subsequent to to an age of moral accountability can sin be predicated of ones formed intents.
Now as far as a nature that in reality has the true flair of sin, it starts at the age of accountability or whenever subsequent that age one first sins. Technically sin is only properly predicated of ‘ones nature’ when it is in reference to sin developed and persisted in subsequent to the age of accountability.
Well, age of accountability is not in the Bible is it?
And you are saying that we have a sin nature after all, huh?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP:I believe such an age is indeed allude to in Scripture, and God certainly engrained that concept in the minds of reasonable persons, including the Jews.
Absolutely we all develop sinful natures as sinners subsequent to the age of accountability.
Did I say proclivity?:smilewinkgrin:
It's alluded to? You mean like sinful children are alluded to?
Unlike the latter, and the rest of your post, gifts (particularly from God) are unconditional. This is particularly true regarding salvation. Let's take a few facts from the Bible.
1. Salvation is referred to as the New Birth. When born again we become children of God, and at first need to be fed with milk, just like an infant. After we grow then we can fed meat.
A child receives a gift unconditionally, not like a seasoned prisoner who receives a pardon.
2. Jesus specifically referred to salvation being received like children--so is the kingdom of God.
3. We are constantly referred to as children. We are contrasted by Jesus: children of darkness vs. children of light.
4. John addresses his readers "My little children."
5. John 1:12, referring to salvation, "As many as received him to them gave he power to become the "children of God" even to them that believe on his name.
--We become children of God the day we believe in Christ.
When a child accepts a gift he accepts it by faith with no conditions attached. That is a given. Children don't know any better. There are no conditions. Salvation is unconditional.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Call me the eternal optimist, but I expect DHK to be able, in time, to far excel my meager attempts at explaining even myself and my poorly worded theological positions. He most likely will not even have to mention the word 'proclivity' to do it. :thumbsup::smilewinkgrin:
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Thank you Amy. Hopefully though not my only friend:smilewinkgrin:
If I do not get off this computer, it may be my only friend.:tonofbricks:
:smilewinkgrin:If I do not get off this computer, it may be my only friend.:tonofbricks: