Purgatory

[Scarlett O.]

****I tried to post this in response to Cathode in another thread about praying for the dead, but it would not let me post for some reason. So I'm just making it a separate thread.

Here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia says about purgatory...

"Purgatory - A place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are,
not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions."
​

The very definition, according to Catholics, is POLAR opposite of the truth that God, Himself, said in His Word.

One CANNOT pay for their own sins. There is NOTHING one can do in this life or the next to satisfy the wrath of God for their own iniquities - be they "venial" or "mortal" - it matters not. Sin is sin. One can steal from petty cash at work or rape a child. The consequences one pays here are different in terms of jail time or social consequences, but the separation from God is the same. Sin is sin.

ONLY JESUS CHRIST can pay the price for sin.

Hebrews 9 says "It is appointed once to die and THEN the judgment." When one dies, he or she will go immediately to one of either place.

How can one die "in God's grace" as the Catholics teach and STILL have sins that Jesus' blood hasn't covered? If Jesus isn't powerful enough to cover your "venial" sins in this life, then he isn't powerful at all and the whole Bible is a lie.

Purgatory is a damnable lie.

 

[Cathode]

****I tried to post this in response to Cathode in another thread about praying for the dead, but it would not let me post for some reason. So I'm just making it a separate thread.
Here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia says about purgatory...

"Purgatory - A place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are,
not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions."

The very definition, according to Catholics, is POLAR opposite of the truth that God, Himself, said in His Word.

One CANNOT pay for their own sins. There is NOTHING one can do in this life or the next to satisfy the wrath of God for their own iniquities - be they "venial" or "mortal" - it matters not. Sin is sin. One can steal from petty cash at work or rape a child. The consequences one pays here are different in terms of jail time or social consequences, but the separation from God is the same. Sin is sin.

ONLY JESUS CHRIST can pay the price for sin.

Hebrews 9 says "It is appointed once to die and THEN the judgment." When one dies, he or she will go immediately to one of either place.

How can one die "in God's grace" as the Catholics teach and STILL have sins that Jesus' blood hasn't covered? If Jesus isn't powerful enough to cover your "venial" sins in this life, then he isn't powerful at all and the whole Bible is a lie.

Purgatory is a damnable lie.

Those in purgatory are saved by Christ, Jesus paid for their forgiveness. They are forgiven.

But not the restitution they owe.

If you punch a blokes teeth out, and he forgives you and drops the charges, you still have to pay for his $25,000 dental care.

Do you understand? We see the same principle played out everywhere even in this life.

“It is appointed once to die and THEN the judgment.”

Yes. It doesn’t say what you are trying make it say here.

Judgement decides who is saved or damned. Those in purgatory are saved, but only as through fire.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Oh, I see you claim 1 Corinthians 3 to teach purgatory. Nope, nope, nope.

The "fire" of judgment for the saved does not purify the Christian. It TESTS the works done. It's how rewards in heaven will be received or not received.

Purgatory DENIES the finished work of Christ. It teaches that his work is NOT finished. It teaches that we still have to pay for our sins.

 

[Cathode]

The suffering of a soul in purgatory is experiencing the consequencial harm they caused, but purely in the spiritual, which much more painful.

They are forgiven by Jesus work on the Cross and will see Heaven, but they must make restitution.
Jesus had the criminal charges dropped for them, but they face a just civil satisfaction case for damages for ruined lives they caused.

Those who know Jesus, know He is merciful, but they also know He is Just.

It is merciful to forgive the repentant criminal, it is Just that restitution be made to the victims of the criminal.

 

[Cathode]

Oh, I see you claim 1 Corinthians 3 to teach purgatory. Nope, nope, nope.

The "fire" of judgment for the saved does not purify the Christian. It TESTS the works done. It's how rewards in heaven will be received or not received.

Purgatory DENIES the finished work of Christ. It teaches that his work is NOT finished. It teaches that we still have to pay for our sins.

Jesus covered our sins by His Cross, but we also carry our cross which covers restitution for damages.

Let’s say a child molester repents and is forgiven. What of the damages he has done, ruined life and innocence, terrible on going suffering, perhaps drugs and suicide of the victim. A life of Happy promise that would have been so different, taken all away.

No, that child molester will experience everything he inflicted in restitution. He will see and experience all the harm he did to the last penny.

 

[Cathode]

“For every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.”

Everything is important, nothing escapes Jesus Judgement.

Many people don’t realise how exacting the accounting is.

Many commit murder by their words, murder of reputations, murder of good name, murder of livelihoods, all this has dire consequences to whole lives and families some for generations.

People maybe forgiven but how do they make restitution for that great damage.

 

[Cathode]

As much as we talk about Jesus Mercy we need to understand His Justice.

There is a portion of Cross assigned to us. The sufferings God sends and allows are restitution not just for ourselves, but the whole Church.

These sufferings born well with love are restitutions to Justice, sufferings are a gift because it allows us to make restitution. It allows us a participation in Christ’s Cross, to understand and have a horror of sin without carrying the full weight of it as Jesus did.

Suffering here is what it is, but in the spiritual it takes on the full aspect of fire. That’s how I saw it.

What is easier here, is hard there.

What restitutions that are not made here are made there to the last penny.

I’m not trying to scare people, I’m trying to warn people out of love.

Not only should we make restitution for the harm we have caused, but go further and make reparation on behalf of others who are ignorant.

It is better to do our Purgatory here and make restitution to Justice, even though Purgatory itself is a Mercy, it far more arduous there.

Part of our forgivenness is for restitution to be on our hearts, to give back what we have stolen, to heal the bruises we inflicted with tears, to be tender to those who lost hope or were hurt because of our harsh words.

By prayer, fasting and acts of Love we make restitution for ourselves and others.

 

[Cathode]

Purgatory is like the old debtors prison, they can not make restitution for themselves by their own prayers, they can only make reparation by the time they serve and suffering they endure.
Unless someone helps clear their debt of reparation by charity or by offering up some suffering.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

There is no such thing as purgatory, the Acryophal books vindicate this concept and unholy scripture. Yes, the Douay did use New Testament readings like the "prison" and other things to push the fact of purgatory.

There is two ways in life (well, the most important ones to be saved or be eternally be in the outdarkness with fire that never quenceth called "hell."

 

[Cathode]

There is no such thing as purgatory, the Acryophal books vindicate this concept and unholy scripture. Yes, the Douay did use New Testament readings like the "prison" and other things to push the fact of purgatory.

There is two ways in life (well, the most important ones to be saved or be eternally be in the outdarkness with fire that never quenceth called "hell."

You’ll believe in Purgatory when you get there.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

You’ll believe in Purgatory when you get there.

Dear Cathode,

I do not believe in Pugratory and will never ever ever believe in such things that are unscriptural.

There are those who are going into everlasting life or eternal torment in hell.

I do not believe that people can do things to make things better for those in purgatory, there is no such thing as praying to the dead, there is no such thing Purgatory.

It's highly unscriptural and can not be proven with scripture.

Though if like, we can discuss verses that are found in the normal 66 canon on verses which some alledge to be supporting puragtory.

Ready?

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

You’ll believe in Purgatory when you get there.

First of all, what is Purgatory? What is Cathode's defintion of it, why believe it and any verses?

 

[Cathode]

Dear Cathode,

I do not believe in Pugratory and will never ever ever believe in such things that are unscriptural.

There are those who are going into everlasting life or eternal torment in hell.

I do not believe that people can do things to make things better for those in purgatory, there is no such thing as praying to the dead, there is no such thing Purgatory.

It's highly unscriptural and can not be proven with scripture.

Though if like, we can discuss verses that are found in the normal 66 canon on verses which some alledge to be supporting puragtory.

Ready?

You follow private interpretations of Scripture, you are immune to the truth of Scripture.

I follow the traditional interpretation of Scripture.

The Fathers and I could quote scriptures support for Purgatory but you will simply interpret scripture how you want, denying it.

This is the sad reality and why the original Bible alone rebels are still paying for this.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

I actually would like to hear other opinions, also, I do not follow private interpretations of the Bible, I for one, now I only read the Bible, I do not look for other scholars/preachers online or in person.

I also follow traditional interpretation of scripture which is the Bible is the word of God, its always right.

Yes, I am a Scripture Alone Christian.

Anyways, let's dicuss the verses, shall we?

I did look into the Douay Rheims version, it seems the verse that I remember trying to support purgatory was the idea of Jesus saying that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause, the ending part of sending to the prison.

The prison part would be paying of all the sin in torment before being cleansed or something and then going to heaven.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

I do wish to get the truth of the scripture.

You follow private interpretations of Scripture, you are immune to the truth of Scripture.

I follow the traditional interpretation of Scripture.

The Fathers and I could quote scriptures support for Purgatory but you will simply interpret scripture how you want, denying it.

This is the sad reality and why the original Bible alone rebels are still paying for this.

 

[Cathode]

First of all, what is Purgatory? What is Cathode's defintion of it, why believe it and any verses?

Because it is true. Purgatory is real. The Fathers interpret scripture explaining Purgatory’s existence.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

I would like to see these verses, and we can go through them together.

 

[Cathode]

I do wish to get the truth of the scripture.

The truth of Scripture is Apostolic Tradition, not human traditions of Bible alone denominations.
The truth is not plural, it is singular.

Do you understand?

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

Thanks for replying Cathode.

Over the years, I came to the conclusion after learning, researching about the Bible issue about the many unbiblical things that churches do such as X-mas, Ischatar, and serveral other things which I had to unlearn.

Though the fact remains, the Holy Bible is the word of God: its for doctrine, reprove, and instruction.

Howoever, I am not sure what this word called "Apostolic Tradition" is referring to and its meaning. Kindly expand, and thanks.

As well, I would like to hear the verses that support purgatory, it would be more contrustive.

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

It would be best if we approach this in a fresh look by looking at the scripture; not going through any commentaries, and just look at the scripture alone.

I do not want to go into any commentaries, since that confused me a lot and that is private interpretation.

Also, we are going to look through this according to the King James Bible.