Question about a Catholic litany

[DHK]

this is too funny...here's a news flash for ya...none, not one iota of the protestant churches we have today existed for roughly 1,520 years since Pentecost...The "Gospel of Jesus Christ" wasn't lost when the Apostles died only to be resurrected by the Baptist Church in the 16th Century...

In XC
-

*Edit...I'm catholic, but not Roman...btw

-

This is really an absurd statement to make. The RCC did not even exist until the fourth century and the Orthodox was a split off of them. The Baptists and/or groups similar to them in doctrine can be traced right back to the time of the Apostles. There have always been those that have been believers in like-doctrine as the Baptists throughout every age right down to the Apostles. But then we have already been through this one many times before also.
The Catholic Church has never had the gospel, does not have the gospel and never will. It preaches a gospel of works, which is a false gospel, a message that can only lead others to hell. It is Christ alone that saves; not Christ plus works or Christ plus anything. Jesus is the only way to heaven. But Catholics do not believe this.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Looks like not very well to me. We have been down this same, old, tired road about different Gospels of Paul, John, etc. The Bible is in harmony, so no they did not. If they had of preached different Gospels, it would have made little difference, as the one Jesus preached here on earth is the correct one.

And none of that matters to this thread anyhow. If the Catholic church disappeared today in totality, it would not make one iota of difference except maybe to get the Gospel spread quicker and more coming to the Lord.

So what Gospel did Jesus preach?

 

[Agnus_Dei]

This is really an absurd statement to make. The RCC did not even exist until the fourth century and the Orthodox was a split off of them. The Baptists and/or groups similar to them in doctrine can be traced right back to the time of the Apostles. There have always been those that have been believers in like-doctrine as the Baptists throughout every age right down to the Apostles. But then we have already been through this one many times before also.

yes we have and you live in a fairy tale world too...

present to the class a list of Baptist fathers that attended the First and Second Ecumenical Councils and what Patriarchates these Baptist fathers represented...since you can trace the baptist heritage back to the Apostles, this should be a cake walk for you.

In XC
-

 

[Doubting Thomas]

This is really an absurd statement to make. The RCC did not even exist until the fourth century and the Orthodox was a split off of them.

The Roman Catholic Chruch per se started in 1054 when it separated from what became known as the Eastern Orthodox Churches in what is called the 'Great Schism'. However, the Catholic Church in Rome started in the first century AD. :smilewinkgrin:

(Indeed, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church began in Jerusalem on Pentecost in AD 33.)

The Baptists and/or groups similar to them in doctrine can be traced right back to the time of the Apostles. There have always been those that have been believers in like-doctrine as the Baptists throughout every age right down to the Apostles.

Only in the imaginary world of historical revisionists.

 

[DHK]

The Roman Catholic Chruch per se started in 1054 when it separated from what became known as the Eastern Orthodox Churches in what is called the 'Great Schism'. However, the Catholic Church in Rome started in the first century AD. :smilewinkgrin:

You wish. This is your imagination speaking.

(Indeed, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church began in Jerusalem on Pentecost in AD 33.)

More imaginary thought.

Only in the imaginary world of historical revisionists.

You mean the Catholic historical revisionists have done a relatively good job in revising many history books according to their bias. In that you are correct.

 

[saturneptune]

The history is really nice to know, but look at the church today. The Catholic Church is poison to the Gospel and deceives many. It is an organization built on fantasy, myth, and secular, man made traditions. The Gospel is repugnent to them. The Baptist faith through its local churches carries out God's work on this earth which is to spread the Good News.

 

[saturneptune]

yes we have and you live in a fairy tale world too...

present to the class a list of Baptist fathers that attended the First and Second Ecumenical Councils and what Patriarchates these Baptist fathers represented...since you can trace the baptist heritage back to the Apostles, this should be a cake walk for you.

In XC
-

Why would Baptist fathers want to attend a meeting that lead to the most evil organization in the history of the world to claim to be Christian? I can read the sermons of Peter in Acts, and can guarantee you he was not the first pope, because he would have nothing to do with the trash the Catholic Church has produced for the last one thousand or so years of its miserable existence. Your ability to claim this or that person back to this or that year has about as much meaning as the Jews in the Bible (try reading it sometime) claiming being acceptable to the Lord because they could trace lineage to Abraham, when it was all the time, faith in Jesus Christ. Whatever time line you produce only means that the evil started earlier.

God has preserved the true New Testement Church thoughout time since Acts. I got news for you, He did not do it through the Catholic Church, I dont care if it started in 504 AD or 1054 AD. The Reformation was a group of people that were tired of the garbage being taught, and at least headed back in the right direction. However, parallel to the 2000 year history since Acts, regardless of when the Catholic Church started, there has been a true New Testement Church preserved that did not come out of the Reformation. The decendent of that church is the Baptist faith. I praise God for the other Protestant faiths.

One does not need to know your history to come to this conclusion. All one has to do is read the Bible, and watch the Catholic Church, and it becomes crystal clear. I am convinced there are many saved Catholics despite the church they attend. God works miracles every day.

There are other such heresies in existence that claim to be Christian, such as JWs, Church of Christ, Mormons, and Christian Scientists, however, they are small in number and do not infect God's work like the Catholic Church does.

 

[Zenas]

Why would Baptist fathers want to attend a meeting that lead to the most evil organization in the history of the world to claim to be Christian?
. . . .
However, parallel to the 2000 year history since Acts, regardless of when the Catholic Church started, there has been a true New Testement Church preserved that did not come out of the Reformation. The decendent of that church is the Baptist faith.

Can you point to any ancient writings that show this to be true? Can you name any of the "Baptist fathers?" Where is the history that supports this idea? These are not rhetorical questions, I would really like to know. Many years ago when I was in school, history teachers would talk about the crusades (Catholic). They would talk about the decline of the Roman Empire (Catholic) and the rise of the Byzantines in Eastern Europe (Orthodox Catholic) and feudalism in Western Europe (also Catholic). They also touched on the Protestant Reformation begun by Henry VIII in England and by Luther on the continent. But I have never read any history about an unbroken line of Baptists extending back to apostolic times. The Trail of Blood is not history, and even if the events related in it were true, the groups described by J. M. Carroll were not Baptist or even baptistic.

 

[Matt Black]

...or even remotely Christian in some cases...

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The question of Christian history and what roles which churches played is probably better suited to another thread. However, as I read all the documents I can find regarding the early Church and its development I find that SaturnNeptune's position hard to justify. There is no evidence of a parallel line of baptist through out history. I think his position would be better suited to say that As the Church evolved (which matches history) it went through phases of growth and decline and things did change yet the original values and thoughts of the apostles and teachings of Jesus remained the same during these periods with in the larger Classification or designation of Catholic until during a decline it felt it must seperate from that institution. I believe that position to be more historically accurate than to say their was this parrallel church outside the rest of acknowledged Christiandom. Studying history has lead me to think along the lines of this history professor's view

Two things are very important to remember about the early Christian Church a) it did not suddenly appear out of nowhere and b) it was not given to the world whole and entire.

Not that certain initial principles have changed. But certainly theology has progressed and developed over time. And christianity in all its modern forms would be mostly unrecognizable to the Apostles themselves. And I daresay the bible itself would be for them an ingenious invention (unrecognizable as well) since the codex was not yet developed and they delt with many, many scrolls and verbal memorization.

 

[saturneptune]

I totally disagree with both postions on history. Something preserved the NT Church, and it sure was not the Catholic. There is no merit to having a detailed history of evolving evil.

Forget the history for a second. Look at the two churches today. The Catholic Church is totally devoid of anything similiar to the Gospel. The Baptist faith preaches the Gospel of the Bible without any addendums. The contrast is quite clear. Gospel and no Gospel. So, if it was not the Baptist faith of today that carries the banner for the NT church, then which church does? It certainly is not the Catholic.

 

[lori4dogs]

I totally disagree with both postions on history. Something preserved the NT Church, and it sure was not the Catholic. There is no merit to having a detailed history of evolving evil.

Forget the history for a second. Look at the two churches today. The Catholic Church is totally devoid of anything similiar to the Gospel. The Baptist faith preaches the Gospel of the Bible without any addendums. The contrast is quite clear. Gospel and no Gospel. So, if it was not the Baptist faith of today that carries the banner for the NT church, then which church does? It certainly is not the Catholic.

Just have to respond to this absurd comment. My Catholic Church held another evangelistic retreat this weekend. Fifty five non-churched attendees made a decision to receive Jesus Christ into their hearts and committed to follow Him as their Lord and Savior. Is this not the gospel you say the Catholic Church is devoid of . Do you read too many 'Jack Chick' Tracts? You obviously are not educated in the teachings of the Catholic Church. You have made many WRONG statements as to what the Catholic Church teaches. Just a DHK continues to state the Catholic Church is made up of a faith of Works. He has also been corrected at to the falsehood time and time again.

I will continue to follow these threads and only respond when blatant lies are posted. READ THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FIRST, THEN POST BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW!

 

[saturneptune]

Just have to respond to this absurd comment. My Catholic Church held another evangelistic retreat this weekend. Fifty five non-churched attendees made a decision to receive Jesus Christ into their hearts and committed to follow Him as their Lord and Savior. Is this not the gospel you say the Catholic Church is devoid of . Do you read too many 'Jack Chick' Tracts? You obviously are not educated in the teachings of the Catholic Church. You have made many WRONG statements as to what the Catholic Church teaches. Just a DHK continues to state the Catholic Church is made up of a faith of Works. He has also been corrected at to the falsehood time and time again.

I will continue to follow these threads and only respond when blatant lies are posted. READ THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH FIRST, THEN POST BASED ON WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW!

I have read it and my posts stand. The Catholic Church is the essence of evil in the Christian community today, totally devoid of the Gospel. In fact, it is the Catholic faith that believes all Protestants and Baptists are bound for hell. In no way do we believe the opposite. Catholics are saved despite the church. It is in its totality a heresy of the worst type.

A faith based on works mixed with myths, fantasy, and man made ceremonies, that is what it boils down to.

By the way, what else did those 55 people have to "do" to be in a right relationship with the Lord, after coming to Jesus Christ through faith?

 

[DHK]

Just a DHK continues to state the Catholic Church is made up of a faith of Works. He has also been corrected at to the falsehood time and time again.

Do I? What does the Catholic Church teach concerning the New Birth?
In John 3:3 Jesus said, You must be born again.
In John 3:5 he said: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
What did he mean?
What does the Catholic Church teach regarding the New Birth?

 

[lori4dogs]

Do I? What does the Catholic Church teach concerning the New Birth?
In John 3:3 Jesus said, You must be born again.
In John 3:5 he said: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
What did he mean?
What does the Catholic Church teach regarding the New Birth?

So when a Catholic evangelist gives an invitation where countless people make a decision to accept Jesus Christ into there heart and follow him as their Lord and Savior, you are saying they must be lost because they also plan to attend the many Catholic Churches in our area that will encourage and nurture them in Gods Holy Word.

DHK, I'm glad you don't determine who God determines justified. My bible says I'm saved by grace, through faith. The Catholic Church teaches that!

 

[lori4dogs]

And by the way. You never hear Catholics declare Baptist Churches as being evil. Maybe if some of your 'educated' commentators took the time to read the Cathecism they would not be so apt spout off what they 'think' they know about the RCC and discuss from fact.

 

[lori4dogs]

I have read it and my posts stand. The Catholic Church is the essence of evil in the Christian community today, totally devoid of the Gospel. In fact, it is the Catholic faith that believes all Protestants and Baptists are bound for hell. In no way do we believe the opposite. Catholics are saved despite the church. It is in its totality a heresy of the worst type.

A faith based on works mixed with myths, fantasy, and man made ceremonies, that is what it boils down to.

By the way, what else did those 55 people have to "do" to be in a right relationship with the Lord, after coming to Jesus Christ through faith?

As has been pointed out time and time again. The Catholic Church doesn't believe that Baptist and all other protestants are bound for hell. BTW, sounds like you might have been reading that marvelous little book of 'myths' The Trail of Blood. Talk about inventing history!!

 

[lori4dogs]

I have read it and my posts stand. The Catholic Church is the essence of evil in the Christian community today, totally devoid of the Gospel. In fact, it is the Catholic faith that believes all Protestants and Baptists are bound for hell. In no way do we believe the opposite. Catholics are saved despite the church. It is in its totality a heresy of the worst type.

A faith based on works mixed with myths, fantasy, and man made ceremonies, that is what it boils down to.

By the way, what else did those 55 people have to "do" to be in a right relationship with the Lord, after coming to Jesus Christ through faith?

Big assumption on your part that anyone had to do anything but give their hearts to the Lord. Show what you know about the Catholic faith.

Here something for you to ponder. When I was a Baptist, the pastor of our church had a teenage son who, during the course of four years, made his way up during the invitation to 'accept Jesus as Lord and Savior again and again'. You see, he said all the other times were not real. He didn't really mean it and this time he wanted to REALLY give his heart to the Lord. He was baptized after each profession of faith. It became problematic for this pastor after I decided to become Catholic (along with several others in my congregation) and his son made yet another trip to the altar after a short time in jail for burglary.

Interesting enough, the group of us that left this Baptist church for the Catholic Church have not had to make countless trips to make 'real professions of faith' and be re-baptized again and again.

None of us are mad at our fellow Christians at that Baptist Church. If fact, none of them doubt our salvation as is so often the case on this board. We still pray together and enjoy each company in our respective houses. Unfortunately the Baptist church has split (yet again) over something petty. Splitting Baptist churches would probably be an interesting thread, eh. Why so many??

 

[lori4dogs]

This is right from the Catechism, 450

'The Church . . . believes that the KEY, the center, and the purpose of the whole of man's history is to be found in its Lord and Master" That being Jesus Christ.
Cathechism, 452 (Acts 4:12) There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved'
Cathechism 455 (Acts 8:37) To be a Christian, one must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (1 Jn 2:23

Catechism 619-620 Why did Christ dies for us? 'Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures (1 Cor 15:3) Oour salvation FLOWS from God's initiative of ove for us, because he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins' (1 Jn 4:10).

I don't believe many of you have actually ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church because it is DERIVED from the word of God. Those who claim they have for the most part show an amazing ignorance of its content.

I must say that the group from our Baptist church that left for the Catholic church did not do so without first forming a study group covering the Catechism of the Catholic Church and also comparing it with anti-Catholic positions on the doctrines. I for one found myself in an Anglican church for some time and continued to study. The fact is I didn't leave the Baptist church based on dissension or anger with the local church. What cause the mass exodus from that church was not those of us that left for the Catholic church (probably only about twenty at the time) but the majority left of worship style.

I hope this answers some of the questions that came up a week or so ago when I was becoming so frustrated with the 'mocking' and ridiculing of a my new faith, (a faith that has brought me closer Jesus) that I chose to stop posting.

It is my hope that this board would encourage duologue among Christians and not condemnation for what my be no more that mis-understanding and myth.

Love you all in Jesus my Lord!

 

[DHK]

So when a Catholic evangelist gives an invitation where countless people make a decision to accept Jesus Christ into there heart and follow him as their Lord and Savior, you are saying they must be lost because they also plan to attend the many Catholic Churches in our area that will encourage and nurture them in Gods Holy Word.

DHK, I'm glad you don't determine who God determines justified. My bible says I'm saved by grace, through faith. The Catholic Church teaches that!

The above is your answer to the following question:

Do I? What does the Catholic Church teach concerning the New Birth?
In John 3:3 Jesus said, You must be born again.
In John 3:5 he said: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
What did he mean?
What does the Catholic Church teach regarding the New Birth?

It is the second time that you just beat around the bush and avoid answering Biblical questions. Why would that be? Care to try again?