Question about a Catholic litany

[saturneptune]

Frequently Asked Questions
about
CATHOLICS PRAYING TO MARY


Click on the question of your choice to be taken to the answer.
1. Why do Catholics pray to Mary?
2. Is there any Biblical support for the belief of Catholics to call upon Mary to intercede to God on their behalf?


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Q. 1. Why do Catholics pray to Mary?

A. 1. A saying that is well known among Catholics is, "To Jesus, through Mary." This does not mean, "To Mary, through Jesus." Nor does it mean, "To Jesus and to Mary." This saying affirms that Catholics do not pray "to" Mary as an equal to God. They pray "through" Mary as an intercessor who prays to God on behalf of mankind.

If Catholics were to pray to Mary, this would imply that they are worshipping her as a god. But Catholics do not perceive Mary as a god. They perceive her as the greatest of all the saints that ever lived.

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Q. 2. Is there any Biblical support for the belief of Catholics to call upon Mary to intercede to God on their behalf?

A. 2. First of all, because Mary was the birth mother of the humanity of Jesus in who "the fullness of the deity (God) was pleased to dwell bodily," [Col. 1:19, 2:9] Catholics recognize the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God.

Secondly, because Mary was "favoured by God" [Lk. 1:30] when she was personally chosen by the Lord to become the mother of Jesus, God incarnated, Catholics believe that they have a greater chance of obtaining God's grace for their daily physical and spiritual needs by asking Mary to intercede on their behalf.

Thirdly, the above mentioned belief is partially based on the fact that Jesus is the King of kings and Mary, as the mother of the King, is the "queen mother." Then, when studying Jewish history, it is discovered that the institution of the "queen mother" was established during the reign of King Solomon.

In the Old Testament, we learn of the favoured position of the queen mother through the following words, "... then the king sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king's mother, and she sat on his right. Then she said, 'I have one small request to make of you, do not refuse me.' And the king said to her, 'Make your request, my mother, for I will not refuse you.'" [1 Kgs. 2:19-20]

Following the reign of King Solomon, many of the kings kept this practice. The mother of the king, through who the king received his throne, was trusted as a confident and advisor. So important was the function of the queen mothers in the days of the Old Testament that their names were listed in the succession records of the kings of Judah. [See 1 Kgs 14:21, 15:13; 2 Kgs. 12:1, 14:2, 15:2, etc...]

Similar to the intercession of the Queen Mother, when a child desires a favour and cannot obtain it from his/her parents, frequently the child will make the request to the grandparent to intercede on his/her behalf, therefore obtaining the favour that was being sought. This does not mean that the child is seeking the parental favour from the grandparent. Rather, the child is seeking the intercession of the grandparents before the parents.

Furthermore, Catholics do not differentiate between the living (in this world) and the dead (those who departed) members of the Body of Christ (the fullness of the Church.) The fullness of the mystical Body of Christ is found in the union of all the saints, past and present, here below and those above in Heaven.

In view of the aforementioned, it cannot be denied that those who were called to Heaven, including Mary, are still alive in spirit in the Kingdom of God that coexists with our world. As some non-Catholics pray through their deceased parents, grandparents or other biological relatives, asking these beloved departed persons to intercede before God on their behalf, Catholics pray through Mary to Jesus, taking advantage of her blessed position as the Mother of God.

This Catholic action affirms the prophetic and Divinely inspired passage that is found in the Holy Bible where it states, "Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed." [Lk. 1:47] All generations could not call Mary blessed if she was not actively involved in the progressive Divine Plan that continues to develop before our eyes.

Indeed, all generations have called the Blessed Virgin Mary blessed, including this one, because she has never stopped interceding on behalf of the world, her intercession obtaining endless miraculous cures and other favours. The role of Mary in the area of obtaining physical miraculous cures is well known and documented in Lourdes, France, this being only one of the many holy places where the grace of God has been manifested through the Virgin Mary at apparition sites.


Look at this nonsense from catholicdoors.com. Notice, they deny praying to Mary, but "to Jesus through Mary." In a previous post, it was claimed by one of the know it alls of Catholic doctrine that 1. They did not pray to dead saints 2. That there was one mediator between us and God, that being Jesus Christ. Now, I would like to know if the bood of Hebrews is in the Bible the Catholics read. Also, I would like to know why we are not only using a local rotten to the core priest as a go between to Jesus, now we are going through Mary. Why are these other characters in the picture when only Jesus Christ is our Mediator?

Notice how they say not "Mary through Jesus, or Jesus and Mary." Mary is now an intercessor to God for the benefit of mankind. Now why is that? I thought that was the role of Jesus Christ, our living, risen Lord. It is all a word game, so they can say praying to Mary does not equate to God. The fact is the only One who is worthy of our worship and prayers is a being who is the Creator. Why would anyone pray to a created being, equal with God or not? Mary was like any other human being, no doubt used by God for a mighty purpose, but still a sinner in need of a Savior.

In that short answer alone, you have disregarded the Bible in so many ways, that alone is enough to justify the label the essence of evil.

The answer to the second question is so ridiculous it does not deserve comment. This question alone to the poster so angry, proves you do not know Catholic doctrine. More Catholic doctrine to follow such as regenerational baptism, physical presence at communion, and belief in the destiny of non-Catholics.
http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu67.htm

 

[lori4dogs]

Apparently the term "born again" may not appear in the Bible. It is my understanding that the Greek phrase often translated "born again" (gennatha anothen) occurs twice in the Bible—John 3:3 and 3:7—and there is some question as to how it should be translated. The Greek word anothen can sometimes be translated "again," but in the New Testament, it most often means "from above." Correct me if I am wrong but In the KJV, the only two times it is translated "again" are in John 3:3 and 3:7; every other time it is given a different rendering.

There is another term that is ‘regeneration’ and that is what happens to an individual believer. That only occurs in Titus 3:5. In other passages this re-birth is described as having received ‘new life’ as in Romans 6:4 and becoming a ‘new creation’ as is found Galations 6:15 and 2 Cor 5:17

The regeneration in John 3 or ‘born again’ is talking about the effects of baptism. I’m told in Greek this phrase is literally born of ‘water and spirit’ which would indicate one birth of water and spirit rather than ‘born of water and of the spirit.

“In the water-and-Spirit rebirth that takes place at baptism, the repentant sinner is transformed from a state of sin to the state of grace. Peter mentioned this transformation from sin to grace when he exhorted people to "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).”

 

[lori4dogs]

I can provide you with some 'lunatic fringe' protestant websites as well. You might as well have directed us to 'Chick Publications'. Why don't you try the one I provided above.

 

[DHK]

The regeneration in John 3 or ‘born again’ is talking about the effects of baptism. I’m told in Greek this phrase is literally born of ‘water and spirit’ which would indicate one birth of water and spirit rather than ‘born of water and of the spirit.

Since baptism is nowhere in the context, not even mentioned in John 3, why would it even be considered.
Nicodemus was a Jew, a Jewish teacher, in fact a rabbi. Baptism would have been the farthest thing from his mind. Christian baptism had not even been taught and its theology not even been introduced much less taught.

Also, how can anyone believe in such a superstition; the same that the Hindus believe? Sprinkle, pour, or plunge into water and the water is going to wash the sins away?? You have got to be kidding! Two atoms of hydrogen to one atom of oxygen is not going to do anything of spiritual value to anyone.

Even Jeremiah scoffed at that idea:
Jeremiah 2:22 For though you wash yourself with lye, and use much soap, yet your iniquity is marked before me, says the Lord Yahweh. (WEB)

Not soap, or the strongest of soaps, or all the water in the world can ever wash away your sins.

No water does not refer to baptism.
It does refer to something; but not baptism.
Nicodemus, the ruler of the Jews, would not have had baptism on his mind. This one thing we know for sure.

 

[lori4dogs]

Saturnneptune: Your fangs are showing again. The statement 'rotten to the core' priest is uncalled for and not becoming a Christian.

 

[Zenas]

The difference is that Baptists, Methodists, etc who are ignorant of the Scriptures are ignorant because of individual laziness. Catholics are ignorant of the Scripture (if that is what you call Catholic writings outside the Inspired Word) because the Catholic Church in all their theological wisdom does not encourage individual Scripture study.

Not exactly, SN. Your opinions are a little misguided but when you state facts you tend to get them right. However, you missed this one. I don’t know why Catholics know so little about the Bible but it is not because the Church discourages Bible reading. This is Section 33 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The Church forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.

Despite the admonition of the Church to do so, I know that study of the Scriptures is not a high priority with most Catholics.

 

[saturneptune]

.


“In the water-and-Spirit rebirth that takes place at baptism, the repentant sinner is transformed from a state of sin to the state of grace. Peter mentioned this transformation from sin to grace when he exhorted people to "be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).”

This is the first honest post you have had, and true to form, it presents another gospel. Since when does rebirth take place at baptism? The Bible is in complete harmony, and it is made quite clear that salvation is by faith alone, not works. Right here, out of your own quote, you clearly state salvation is by works. You are taking Acts 2:38 out of context to agree with your warped theology. The first part of the verse says repent, and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins. That in no way suggests that Baptism is necessary for salvation, rather, that once someone repents, and is a child of God, the first thing he or she is commanded to do by the Lord is to be baptized. If you in fact actually believe in regenerational baptism, then you ignore the book of Ephesians, but then again, above, it was proven that the book of Hebrews means nothing to you.

If regenerational baptism was a truth, the last place I would get baptized would be a Catholic Church.

 

[saturneptune]

Not exactly, SN. Your opinions are a little misguided but when you state facts you tend to get them right. However, you missed this one. I don’t know why Catholics know so little about the Bible but it is not because the Church discourages Bible reading. This is Section 33 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Despite the admonition of the Church to do so, I know that study of the Scriptures is not a high priority with most Catholics.

I have been to several masses. There are no Bibles in the pews, there were no Scripture readings at the masses I attended unless they were combined with their extra-Biblical mumbo jumbo. Why are masses at times said in Latin? Who does that edify?

 

[lori4dogs]

I have been to several masses. There are no Bibles in the pews, there were no Scripture readings at the masses I attended unless they were combined with their extra-Biblical mumbo jumbo. Why are masses at times said in Latin? Who does that edify?

Every mass has the Liturgy of the word of God. On each Sunday that includes an Old Testament lesson, a psalm, a New Testament lesson and always, always, the Gospel lesson. I don't know what kind of Catholic Church you attended but those lessons are required. No exceptions. After the Liturgy of the word and the sermon begins the Liturgy of the Eucharist. If you were to count the actual scripture verses used throughout the mass you would find much of the mass is either direct quotes from the bible or based upon it.

I went to a Baptist church a while back that had bibles in the pews. However, during the sermon the bible was never referenced but we did hear a lovely poem by Emily Dickinson. At least in my Catholic Church I am guaranteed to hear the Bible read each and every mass.

Oh, and Dominus Vobiscum! People who understand latin would be edified by a mass being celebrated in that language.

 

[DHK]

Every mass has the Liturgy of the word of God. On each Sunday that includes an Old Testament lesson, a psalm, a New Testament lesson and always, always, the Gospel lesson.

It's not much of a lesson; just a NT reading. A reading from the NT doesn't teach much.

I don't know what kind of Catholic Church you attended but those lessons are required. No exceptions. After the Liturgy of the word and the sermon begins the Liturgy of the Eucharist. If you were to count the actual scripture verses used throughout the mass you would find much of the mass is either direct quotes from the bible or based upon it.

All told very little Scripture is actually used, not compared to the average Baptist church. However by what you have written you must have been in a liberal Baptist church.

I went to a Baptist church a while back that had bibles in the pews. However, during the sermon the bible was never referenced but we did hear a lovely poem by Emily Dickinson. At least in my Catholic Church I am guaranteed to hear the Bible read each and every mass.

Paul speaks of another gospel in Gal.1. Those who preach another gospel, he says are accursed. Strong language isn't it? The Catholic Church preaches another gospel--one of works: not of grace; not of faith; but of works. It preaches directly against what Eph.2:8,9 teaches, which is the heart of the gospel message. It guarantees those who follow their message a place in hell.

Oh, and Dominus Vobiscum! People who understand latin would be edified by a mass being celebrated in that language.

It never was much of a blessing.

et cum spirit tuo.
And with you also. Though the meaning was known to me it was simple rote memorization which appealed to the emotional aura of the liturgical service. No doubt in the OT the services or worship of Baal had incorporated many of the same concepts. They are old--appealing to the emotions instead of the intellect.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I don't understand something. Lori4dogs states what it is she believes being a Catholic. Yet you say she doesn't believe that. Yet shouldn't she know what she believes? My family is Catholic. They are pretty certain what it is they believe. They believe that being born again is the same as being a member of the family of God. They equate baptism with circumsision. In other words for the Jew the sign of membership in the people of the covenant was circumsision. For the Catholic and Orthodox its baptism. Catholic Soteriology is inclusive of the entire life of the Christian. Which everyone save for Agnus Dei, Matt, Zenas, and Lori4dogs gets wrong. Not the theology but the Catholic understanding of it. Protestants say that Salvation is just being declared righteous upon a heart felt profession of faith. Catholics, Orthodox believe that the declaration is just the entry door to salvation. Faith is given by God and Faith gets you in the door. That's God's doing. The rest of the stuff after entry is also salvation unless you reject your faith. They say after they have faith, which is a free gift, then the things they do to keep them in line with God's will actually counts for something. Like a father who is proud for his son obeying him. But if they are strangers nothing they do will impress the father. (My dad brought that analogy up) this is how a Catholic "cooperates" their salvation. in short God wants to do more that declare men righteous but to make them righteous. They adhere to the Apostles' Creed which says they believe in the Communion of Saints which means that Saints are alive and very much participative in the present day Church. They believe the Pope is infallible only on issues of Doctrine and Faith in regards to the Deposit of Faith and the morals of the Church but only when he's teaching Ex Cathedra. Let me see.... They believe in the Magisterium which is two fold 1) Scriptures (to include certain books from the LXX) 2) Tradition which more often than not overlaps with scripture but the tradition that is not in scripture is based of continuous practice and teaching consistent with the ECF. They hold to a Covenant based theology. Their favorite systematic theologian was Thomas Aquinas. And Sorry SaturnNeptune Every mass has a reading from the OT, and Epistle, and the Gospel. Latin is used only in Triniditine Mass and because the Church is so old most of the writings are in Latin. Its a technical language and is used that way like the medical profession. sacraments cannot be confused with ordances because for them symbols have their spiritual reality counterpart very much like Lewis describes in his books (being an Anglican you had to see that coming). They believe in the real presence of the Eucharist but don't before you think the bread turns into physical flesh (you would be wrong) because the Eucharist has two aspects Accidents and Substance (In the Latin sense of the words not modern english) and they believe that its not multiple sacrifices of christ but a mystic continuation of that one sacrifice going outward from the Crucifixion like a radio signal (my father again). Now that I've spelled out accurately what they believe you can argue against it accurately rather than espousing "stuff" that either ignorant Catholics believe (which is many because I don't think that Church teaches its people well), or many times removed protestants views looking in on things they aren't familiar with. My authority of this is the Catachism and my Family's interpretation of it. Oh and all the Jesuit spies that are trying to resurrect the cult of Isis. (that was a joke btw).

 

[DHK]

I don't understand something. Lori4dogs states what it is she believes being a Catholic. Yet you say she doesn't believe that. Yet shouldn't she know what she believes?

No, Lori is either being ignorant or hypocritical. I sense the latter.
She claims that she is a Catholic. Okay, I will accept that.
But as Saturn stated, there are some of us here that have studied Catholicism, and what she has presented on the board is not what the RCC teaches. It doesn't matter to me what she believes, for we all have a right to our own beliefs--that is the nature of soul liberty. But to state that her beliefs are the same as the beliefs as the RCC is wrong. They aren't. The RCC believes in purgatory for example. They certainly don't believe that a person will go either straight to heaven or straight to hell depending on whether they are saved or not. That is evangelical teaching not Catholic teaching. The RCC teaches the reality of purgatory, not heaven vs. hell.

She may be presenting her own ideas, her own beliefs, but they aren't the same as the RCC.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No, Lori is either being ignorant or hypocritical. I sense the latter.
She claims that she is a Catholic. Okay, I will accept that.
But as Saturn stated, there are some of us here that have studied Catholicism, and what she has presented on the board is not what the RCC teaches. It doesn't matter to me what she believes, for we all have a right to our own beliefs--that is the nature of soul liberty. But to state that her beliefs are the same as the beliefs as the RCC is wrong. They aren't. The RCC believes in purgatory for example. They certainly don't believe that a person will go either straight to heaven or straight to hell depending on whether they are saved or not. That is evangelical teaching not Catholic teaching. The RCC teaches the reality of purgatory, not heaven vs. hell.

She may be presenting her own ideas, her own beliefs, but they aren't the same as the RCC.

I think purgatory is a matter of not going straight to heaven. People going to hell are on the express elevator.

 

[DHK]

I think purgatory is a matter of not going straight to heaven. People going to hell are on the express elevator.

I Lori's post (#145) here is what she said:

BTW, the Catholic Church teaches that once you die you are either saved or not saved. No amount of praying for someones soul is going to pursuade God to bring you out of hell if that is where you are bound. READ THE CATHECHISM, IT IS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR YOU HAVE NOT!

The problem is, the catechism does not teach that. She claims to have had a Baptist background. Maybe she's getting her baptist doctrine confused with her Catholic doctrine or even Anglican doctrine, for that is what is in her profile. It must be confusing to go through so many churches, and try to keep all their doctrines straight--at least for some people.

But that is not what the catechism teaches, as much as she declares it is.

 

[lori4dogs]

"All told very little Scripture is actually used, not compared to the average Baptist church. However by what you have written you must have been in a liberal Baptist church." Wrong, wrong, wrong DHK

I challenge anyone on this board to check out a Catholic missal and see if DHK's claim holds water. The first half of any mass is scripture reading. The claim that there is just a NT reading is just plain wrong! Again, there is a OT reading, Psalm, NT reading and then the Gospel reading. I count four different scripture readings there DHK, not just one that you claim. Where do you get your mis-information?

However, DHK, you are right. Mostly liberal Baptist churches around here. Half empty and trying all kinds of gimmicks to try to fill up their pews.

 

[DHK]

Some teachings of the Catholic Church:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Lori sarcastically asked: "And what Catholic Church still teaches about indulgences today?" Lori is the Catholic, and she ought to know. It is the Catechism that teaches it, and the local Catholic church is amiss if they are not teaching "all the counsel of the Catechism" are they not??

Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church

1478 An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.90
1479 Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.

1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church.
1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.

Notice the purpose of indulgences is to shorten the temporal punishment for those in purgatory caused by their sins.


The Pharisees knew who Jesus was. The spoke among themselves when Jesus healed, and said: "Who can forgive sins but God alone?" They murmured in their hearts because Christ said: "Thy sins be forgiven thee." They were jealous. But they knew the truth. Only God could forgive sins. Christ was God, not something the Pharisees were willing to accept. However contrary to this truth that only God can forgive sins, the RCC Catechism teaches:

1495

Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.

It has been reiterated over and over again by various Catholics, especially lately by Lori, that the Catholics do not claim that salvation is through the RCC only. However their Catechism teaches otherwise. Their Catechism teaches that salvation is only through the Catholic Church

I. "LORD, LOOK UPON THE FAITH OF YOUR CHURCH"

168 It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith. Everywhere, it is the Church that first confesses the Lord: "Throughout the world the holy Church acclaims you", as we sing in the hymn "Te Deum"; with her and in her, we are won over and brought to confess: "I believe", "We believe". It is through the Church that we receive faith and new life in Christ by Baptism. In the Rituale Romanum, the minister of Baptism asks the catechumen: "What do you ask of God's Church?" And the answer is: "Faith." "What does faith offer you?" "Eternal life."54
169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: "We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation."55 Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

You cannot have faith outside of mother church. You can't have salvation without faith. There is no salvation without saving faith. There is no salvation outside the Catholic faith.

Don't be deceived by this works-based religion preaching a false gospel, a message that prevents people from going to heaven.

 

[saturneptune]

"All told very little Scripture is actually used, not compared to the average Baptist church. However by what you have written you must have been in a liberal Baptist church." Wrong, wrong, wrong DHK

I challenge anyone on this board to check out a Catholic missal and see if DHK's claim holds water. The first half of any mass is scripture reading. The claim that there is just a NT reading is just plain wrong! Again, there is a OT reading, Psalm, NT reading and then the Gospel reading. I count four different scripture readings there DHK, not just one that you claim. Where do you get your mis-information?

However, DHK, you are right. Mostly liberal Baptist churches around here. Half empty and trying all kinds of gimmicks to try to fill up their pews.

This whole question is not a contest about who reads the most Bible verses in a given service or who has better recorded history, this boils down to the product of the church today. The Catholic for all its pretty little trappings, spouts a message of salvation by works. The Baptist church for all its faults preaches the Gospel.

By the way, everyone of your posts have been proven to be in error, and you have not addressed one.

And by the way, and will be posting details soon, before Vatican 2, the official position of the Catholics was that yes, Protestants, Baptists, and anyone else not in your club was going to hell. The wording since then is so vague as to be allowed to be looked at either way. The basic premise has not changed. It is very revealing to me that we do not think of you that way.

 

[DHK]

"All told very little Scripture is actually used, not compared to the average Baptist church. However by what you have written you must have been in a liberal Baptist church." Wrong, wrong, wrong DHK

I challenge anyone on this board to check out a Catholic missal and see if DHK's claim holds water. The first half of any mass is scripture reading. The claim that there is just a NT reading is just plain wrong! Again, there is a OT reading, Psalm, NT reading and then the Gospel reading. I count four different scripture readings there DHK, not just one that you claim. Where do you get your mis-information?

However, DHK, you are right. Mostly liberal Baptist churches around here. Half empty and trying all kinds of gimmicks to try to fill up their pews.

Yes, there may be four readings of Scripture. But that is all they are. They are just readings. They are not "lessons" per se.
At our church the Scripture is read, and then it is expounded on for about 45 minutes. The people are fed the Word. They know their Bibles.

 

[saturneptune]

Another aspect of all this which I have never been able to pin down on paper, is a discussion I had with a Catholic church official last time I went to a baptism for a distant family member. It is the concept of the local church. The term "local Catholic Church" was mentioned above.

As I understood what this person told me, there is no per se local church roll. You are a member of the greater Catholic Church and in theory, a member of any church you worship at any given point in time. There is no membership or letter transfer from one church to another.

Of course, Baptist churches are all autonomous, and generally only accept letters from churches of like faith and order. Even in the Protestant denominations, even though they high a heirachy, require some kind of letter of transfer, or statement of faith. There is a definite local church identity in both cases.

Since I do not know for sure, is there such thing as a local Catholic Church with their own membership rolls and requiring a letter in good standing to go from one church to another? The New Testement churches Paul wrote his letters to were local churches carrying out God's will and spreading the Gospel. Do the Catholics look at their church as one big Universal Church? This is an honest question, as I do not know for sure.

 

[Zenas]

Another aspect of all this which I have never been able to pin down on paper, is a discussion I had with a Catholic church official last time I went to a baptism for a distant family member. It is the concept of the local church. The term "local Catholic Church" was mentioned above.

As I understood what this person told me, there is no per se local church roll. You are a member of the greater Catholic Church and in theory, a member of any church you worship at any given point in time. There is no membership or letter transfer from one church to another.

Of course, Baptist churches are all autonomous, and generally only accept letters from churches of like faith and order. Even in the Protestant denominations, even though they high a heirachy, require some kind of letter of transfer, or statement of faith. There is a definite local church identity in both cases.

Since I do not know for sure, is there such thing as a local Catholic Church with their own membership rolls and requiring a letter in good standing to go from one church to another? The New Testement churches Paul wrote his letters to were local churches carrying out God's will and spreading the Gospel. Do the Catholics look at their church as one big Universal Church? This is an honest question, as I do not know for sure.

They do have local church (parish) rolls. People on that roll are called "registered members." Just like with Baptists, you will find a number of Catholics in a given community that are not on any local parish roll. However, the faithful will register their membership at the local parish when they move into it. I don't know exactly how this is done to verify that they are Catholics is good standing. Parishes have defined geographic boundaries and it used to be that if you lived in a parish your only choice of a church was the one in that parish. That requirement was abolished a few years ago and today Catholics may register with the parish of their choice.