Questions About Predestination

[Silverhair]

No, to be clear, it is you that post out of context verses, we see them and know that you are badly mistaken.

Such as.

 

[Silverhair]

Keep in mind that JohnC has been shown to be a serial dishonest poster. What you quoted from his post is his classic misquote and switching words around to accuse those of us expose his deviant posts.

Z you are not in the position to question whether one is a dishonest poster. You should take a serious look at your own posts first before you accuse others of doing what you do.

 

[Zaatar71]

Such as.

Anytime you attempted scripture. If you get something right, that might be a first. But you eagerly go after solid posters like Canady???

 

[Zaatar71]

Z you are not in the position to question whether one is a dishonest poster. You should take a serious look at your own posts first before you accuse others of doing what you do.

Oh No you Don't. I know what I have posted, and JohnC does not quote us directly. You get his twisted interpretation of what we actually posted, He tries in vain to get away with knowing people do not want to waste time uncovering his dishonesty, so he repeats this process every few days, lol, pathetic! What is even worse, is you are fast becoming a disciple of Johnc and are parroting his falsehoods as if they were true!

 

[Silverhair]

Anytime you attempted scripture. If you get something right, that might be a first. But you eagerly go after solid posters like Canady???

Any time that I post scripture that shows the error your or @canadyjd view you make the same type of comment.

It matters not if you believe me but you should believe the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Oh No you Don't. I know what I have posted, and JohnC does not quote us directly. You get his twisted interpretation of what we actually posted, He tries in vain to get away with knowing people do not want to waste time uncovering his dishonesty, so he repeats this process every few days, lol, pathetic! What is even worse, is you are fast becoming a disciple of Johnc and are parroting his falsehoods as if they were true!

Contrary to you I do not trust everything that comes from man but I do trust all that comes from the word of God.

You do not like what JonC says so you disparage him just as you do all who disagree with your false philosophy.

What false hood Z? Surely you have a list.

 

[Charlie24]

I do know what it means. Are you able to articulate what you believe “free will” means or not?

For something to be “free” there must be no interference.

I am free to dunk a basketball anytime I have the chance. I am limited by my natural ability to jump high enough. Gravity and natural ability interferes with my desires.

The human will is enslaved to sin according the Apostle Paul in Romans. Paul literally says we are enslaved by sin. Sin interferes with our desires.

Jesus says if we sin we are a slave to sin. If the Son sets you free you are free indeed.

Please just think about what you mean by “free will”. Don’t just fall into the rut of regurgitating “God doesn’t want robots” which doesn’t address the issue of what scripture actually teaches.

Peace to you

Free will means the same to us as it meant to Adam and Eve.

God gave them the free will to choose to either believe Him or believe the Serpent/Satan.

They chose to believe Satan, it's as simple as that!

We have the same free will to choose God or Satan. No choice is a choice against God.

Now you can quote all the Scripture you like and twist it as much as you like, but that is the truth of the matter.

 

[Zaatar71]

Any time that I post scripture that shows the error your or @canadyjd view you make the same type of comment.

It matters not if you believe me but you should believe the word of God.

we do believe the word of God, just not what you think it means.

 

[Silverhair]

we do believe the word of God, just not what you think it means.

As I said you do not have to believe me but you do need to believe the word of God.

But as your OP shows, you have more trust in what some men, Joel R. Beeke and Paul M. Smalley, have said the word of God means than what the actual word of God says.

 

[Zaatar71]

As I said you do not have to believe me but you do need to believe the word of God.

Calvinists who are biblical believe the word of God

But as your OP shows, you have more trust in what some men, Joel R. Beeke and Paul M. Smalley, have said the word of God means than what the actual word of God says.

You cannot understand what a theologian like Joel Beeke teaches. I have met Joel Beeke in person and I can tell you he would expose your foolish notions in a heart beat. I have a 4 volume set of their books. I do not agree with everything they teach. Nothing says I have to agree with everything they teach! But to say I cannot learn from such men would be contemptible and quite stupid. I can learn from what they offer. i can also show where we do not agree. but knowing why from scripture I believe differently..

 

[Silverhair]

Calvinists who are biblical believe the word of God

You cannot understand what a theologian like Joel Beeke teaches. I have met Joel Beeke in person and I can tell you he would expose your foolish notions in a heart beat. I have a 4 volume set of their books. I do not agree with everything they teach. Nothing says I have to agree with everything they teach! But to say I cannot learn from such men would be contemptible and quite stupid. I can learn from what they offer. i can also show where we do not agree. but knowing why from scripture I believe differently..

Believe the the word of God as written in context or as you have been told it means Z?

What Beeke or Smalley think the word of God means is just that - what they think the word of God means. They add their own understanding to the word of God as we see in the first words you quoted from them.

"Paul says that God “will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4). However, this Scripture cannot mean that God chooses to save every human being. God accomplishes all his will (Ps. 135:6), but he does not save all mankind (Matt. 7:13–14).


It is better to understand “all men” to refer to people from every kind and category. God saves kings and subjects, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, women and men, young and old. Paul calls for prayer for “all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority” (1 Tim. 2:1–2). Therefore, we should tell the gospel to all kinds of people. We do not know whom God chose until, by his grace, they are saved by faith in Christ to the praise of his glory (Eph. 1:3–4, 11–14)."

They are giving you the calvinist understanding of scripture as read through that particular lens.

I have a number of commentaries form both theological views and I use them as aids in study not to replace study. The opinions of man are just that - opinions.

 

[Zaatar71]

Believe the the word of God as written in context or as you have been told it means Z?

What Beeke or Smalley think the word of God means is just that - what they think the word of God means. They add their own understanding to the word of God as we see in the first words you quoted from them.

"Paul says that God “will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4). However, this Scripture cannot mean that God chooses to save every human being. God accomplishes all his will (Ps. 135:6), but he does not save all mankind (Matt. 7:13–14).


It is better to understand “all men” to refer to people from every kind and category. God saves kings and subjects, rich and poor, educated and uneducated, women and men, young and old. Paul calls for prayer for “all men; for kings, and for all that are in authority” (1 Tim. 2:1–2). Therefore, we should tell the gospel to all kinds of people. We do not know whom God chose until, by his grace, they are saved by faith in Christ to the praise of his glory (Eph. 1:3–4, 11–14)."

They are giving you the calvinist understanding of scripture as read through that particular lens.

I have a number of commentaries form both theological views and I use them as aids in study not to replace study. The opinions of man are just that - opinions.

I suspect you have no idea what you are talking about; here is Joel beeke, listen and tell me where he is teaching falsehood...

 

[JesusFan]

It's a total misunderstanding of predestination.

Just look at the answers in the OP that outright deny the Word of God, changing it to meet a theory devised by man.

The believing individual is predestined to God's plan before the foundation of the world to be conformed into the image of Christ according to His plan of redemption.

"he has chosen us in Him" is Paul referring to the saved in the Ephesian Church, those who believed, but in the broader sense to all believers and for all time.

God is not predestinating who will be saved, but how they will be saved through and by Christ Jesus.

God bases His election towards us who will be found in Jesus per His good will and pleasure, and then He predestines us due to our election in Christ, so 2 separate processes here, and diagreement would be on just what basis did God rest His election onm?

 

[JesusFan]

Well, that’s not what Calvinism teaches. The elect do indeed make a choice, but this occurs only after God transforms them from someone who hates Him into someone who loves Him. Once they are regenerated, the only choice to make is to believe, but this does not imply that God is the one making the choice for them.

Perfect summary of the doctrine of irresistible grace towards and upon His own elect

 

[JesusFan]

I believe in total depravity, and it's the hearing of the Gospel that man realizes who he is and his need for a Savior.

Unless the Holy Spirit enables them to hear though, they will remain deaf and dumb to it

 

[JesusFan]

There is where there is legitimate room for honest disagreement. Is the gospel itself, as the bare information, enough? Or, is the direct work of the Holy Spirit necessary, and if so, is this always accompanying the gospel or is it totally separate. And is the nature of this Holy Spirit work one of instant prior regeneration, or is it enlightenment and conviction and does it always lead to faith or can it be effectively resisted and on and on.

What is confusing is that many great Calvinists seem to believe one thing theologically, then preach in a very free will manner. They obviously believe a range of positions, which is not surprising since the WCF states this in section III. It almost seems like it was written by a committee. Actually it was. I think it is a beautiful set of guardrails to keep us on track but you shouldn't camp on one point too long, as some seem to do.

The Holy Spirit regenerates us based upon the election of God unto salvation

 

[JesusFan]

You really are becoming an old record @canadyjd.

It is obvious that you have refused to actually look at the pagan foundations of your particular view or perhaps you are comfortable with that.

Many cults have done just what those calvinist teachers have done, twist scripture by cherry picking out of context verses to support their views.

It is not required that you trust my words but you do need to trust the word of God.

Why would you expect someone to accept your DoG/TULIP when we do not find it in scripture?

Where then is the full free will gospel taught in the NT?

 

[JesusFan]

God doesn't want robots that He elected to love Him, He wants man to love Him by their own free will/choice.

That's the reason man began with God given free will in the Garden and nothing has changed.

Something did change my brother, its called the Fall of Adam and that brought to us all now spiritual death

 

[JesusFan]

It looks like you're the one with the exaggeration.

We are all fallen just as Adam and we all have free will just as Adam.

Nothing has changed.

we now have spiritually died in Adam, and when born again made spiritually alive again in Christ

 

[JesusFan]

Only God saves @canadyjd.
The difference between us is that you think you were so special that He picked you out prior to creation before you even believed and I choose to believe the bible when it tells us that when we hear the gospel message and believe it then God saves us.

God gave us a free will and that is why we are held responsible for the choices we make.

So the difference is calvinist determinism or biblical free will.

Where is that doctrine of full free will taught though, as my bible states that desire God, no not right, nor seek after Him?