Questions for Adventist

[Alofa Atu]

In your previous thread you said, "Whether persons convert is not so much my business here, as it is to share truths long forgotten by Baptists ."

What are the long forgotten truths of which you speak?

I had a thread up for that very thing, but it was secretly deleted several days ago, and so there is no longer any trace of it (and for reasons the superintendents of this board will have to answer to God for). The most likely cause for that deletion, as I see it, is public scrutiny over documented facts (I provided direct citation with links) in the matter. If you need further detail, please refer to the board superintendents.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Supreme irony, in that ellen White denied Hell was real ...

Have you even read a single work by sister White in its entirety? Sister White most certainly did not deny that "Hell was real". Do you need me to provide that evidence from many quotations, or can I trust you, to simply go to the following site and type in "hell" and read for yourself and adjust your comments from this point forward? - Ellen G. White Writings

What sister White denied was 'eternal torment', and rightly so, as scripture (KJB) doesn't teach it, anywhere.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Ellen White had MANY heresies, from denying that Jesus was the lord God Almighty ...

Already shown to be incorrect, here - Do The SDA See Ellen White As Modern Prophetess Then?

The question at the end still remains, but I can see what the answer is already.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Supreme irony, in that ellen White denied Hell was ... eternal ...

The second death is for eternity. It is the 'torment' that is not. Feel free to refer to the previous link given to see what sister White actually stated if you are interested. I still do not know why you refer to her so much, getting so much wrong in so doing. My (our) position isn't (now, nor ever been) based in thus saith sister Ellen G White. It is and has always been, based in Thus saith the LORD, even It is written (KJB).

 

[Alofa Atu]

If I can prove to you from the greek NT text that Jesus and paul contradicted the theology of paul, would you accept them, or just blindly follow EW still?

I am not exactly sure what you just said. Really. Please restate the question. As of right now, it seems to suggest that you think that Jesus and Paul contradict Paul in the NT???

Are you one of those persons who thinks Paul is anti-christian?

As we know that the Sda tried for a period of 5 years to prove form the scripture that EW was right on the IJ, and could not find any way to reconcile teachings of Scriptures to her theology on that!

If you are talking about Glacier view, Walter Martin, Barnhouse, Questions on Doctrines, etc, etc meetings of which were not "Sda" (sic), but certain amongst leadership in closed meetings in a false ecumenism, and this was what M L Andreasen wrote about in his letters to the Churches, which you can read here - https://ia601401.us.archive.org/6/items/sda-m-l-andreasen-letters-to-the-churches/SDA - M L Andreasen - Letters to the Churches.pdf

It (the secret closed meetings) was not in General Conference with the faithful body present, and do you know why? The faithful body already knew how to show the IJ from scripture, as it was already also in print in the writings of sister Ellen G White, and even in the book Great Controversy. That certain in leadership didn't know how to show the doctrine from scripture, shows their lack of understanding in Seventh-day Adventist theology. They were trained in the fallen schooling systems (which no longer represented the Seventh-day Adventist model, the Bible's model) which had already become corrupt.

You can read about that in other works, which if you need I can provide.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...But, if that is not enough, then the words " And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." ( Revelation 14:11 ) should do it, if you believe the words as written. ...

Ok, the "smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever". I believe exactly what it says. This phrase does not deal with 'time', but direction and 'distance' [height, ascending up to heaven]. The smoke goes "up" forever and ever. In other words, up and out of sight into the stratosphere.:

For [it is] the day of the LORD'S vengeance, [and] the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. Isaiah 34:8

And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. Isaiah 34:9

It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. Isaiah 34:10​

See:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11​

See also:

And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Revelation 18:9

And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. Revelation 18:14

And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city! Revelation 18:18

And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. Revelation 18:21

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft [he be], shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Revelation 18:22

And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Revelation 18:23

And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. Revelation 19:3
​

We may also directly compare to Sodom and Gomorrah, which are set forth as an example of what comes in the end, total destruction, leaving nothing, but ashes and smoke rising into the sky...:

And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. Genesis 19:28

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, [and] we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Isaiah 1:9

As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour [cities] thereof, saith the LORD, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it. Jeremiah 49:18

As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour [cities] thereof, saith the LORD; [so] shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein. Jeremiah 50:40

But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. Luke 17:29

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:6

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7​

Sodom and Gomorrah [peoples and citizens, items, animals, etc] are not still burning, nor even still smoking, they are ashes and dust, and no more for they were punished with the fire of God completely destroying them.

We may also compare to the destruction of the city of Ai:

And when the men of Ai looked behind them, they saw, and, behold, the smoke of the city ascended up to heaven, and they had no power to flee this way or that way: and the people that fled to the wilderness turned back upon the pursuers. Joshua 8:20

And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai. Joshua 8:21​

We may also compare in the book of Judges:

Now there was an appointed sign between the men of Israel and the liers in wait, that they should make a great flame with smoke rise up out of the city. Judges 20:38

But when the flame began to arise up out of the city with a pillar of smoke, the Benjamites looked behind them, and, behold, the flame of the city ascended up to heaven. Judges 20:40​

Elsewhere:

For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up [like] the lifting up of smoke. Isaiah 9:18​

We may also compare to the smoke upon Mt. Sinai, where God Himself descended and touched that mountain with His own feet:

And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. Exodus 19:18​

This is my last post in this thread.

I understand, but if you do not mind, I shall respond to the things which you have left before so leaving. Yet, do not feel that you cannot respond if you so choose. I would rather you do so, than not do so, if you need to.

I bid you a good evening sir, and a good day tomorrow as well.

Well, I thank you for that kindness. I accept it, and by God's grace, to share it.

 

[Protestant]

I had a thread up for that very thing, but it was secretly deleted several days ago, and so there is no longer any trace of it (and for reasons the superintendents of this board will have to answer to God for). The most likely cause for that deletion, as I see it, is public scrutiny over documented facts (I provided direct citation with links) in the matter. If you need further detail, please refer to the board superintendents.

In my thread, Observations Upon Sister White & SDA Doctrines, I listed several contradictions of Sister White’s alleged visions with the revealed Word of God because:

1. They deny the sufficiency of Scripture.

2. They add to or take away from Scripture.

3. They allege EGW is given carte blanche to tell of heavenly revelations, while Paul was not.

4. They read like a high school creative writing assignment.

5. They deny angels are spirits which are invisible, without bodies, yet EGW describes both angels and the Eternal Word as if they possessed bodies whose emotions were plainly visible.

6. The law prohibiting breaking the holy Sabbath was never established or even mentioned, while the prohibition against eating from the Tree of Knowledge was explicitly described and condemned.

QUESTION: How do you answer these facts?

 

[robycop3]

Have you even read a single work by sister White in its entirety? Sister White most certainly did not deny that "Hell was real". Do you need me to provide that evidence from many quotations, or can I trust you, to simply go to the following site and type in "hell" and read for yourself and adjust your comments from this point forward? - Ellen G. White Writings

What sister White denied was 'eternal torment', and rightly so, as scripture (KJB) doesn't teach it, anywhere.

Actually, your KJV (NOT "KJB") DOES teach it. Here's proof :

Rev. 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[/COLOR]
Now, let's see one verse of Scripture saying the LOF (hell) isn't FOR EVER.

Another Seven-Day-Adlibber falsehood goes "POOF !"

 

[Alofa Atu]

In my thread, Observations Upon Sister White & SDA Doctrines ...

One thread at a time if you please.

 

[Alofa Atu]

... Now, let's see one verse of Scripture saying the LOF (hell) isn't FOR EVER. ..

I have done this already with you. Do you not remember?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.​

 

[robycop3]

I have done this already with you. Do you not remember?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.​

That does NOT counter Rev. 20:10. The LOF isn't in heaven or earth, nor in this "dimension" at all.

 

[Alofa Atu]

That does NOT counter Rev. 20:10. The LOF isn't in heaven or earth, nor in this "dimension" at all.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are (Revelation 13:1,11), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
​

The lake (sea) of fire will (future) burn upon this present earth. It is even foretold in the OT prophets and NT Apostles:

Isa_28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.​

Revelation 21:1 is the evidence you asked for. It is irrefutable.

 

[Protestant]

One thread at a time if you please.

Please respond when time allows.

 

[Protestant]

One thread at a time if you please.

I have just now posted another proof of Sister Ellen's fraud: her overt plagiarizing of J.A. Wylie's chapter on the history of the Waldenses, found in volume 1 of his classic, History of Protestantism. When time allows you owe to yourself and fellow Adventists to see for yourself how her spirit is not of God. The thread entitled Observations Upon Sister White is where the material may be found.

 

[Alofa Atu]

I have just now posted another proof of Sister Ellen's fraud: her overt plagiarizing of J.A. Wylie's chapter on the history of the Waldenses, found in volume 1 of his classic, History of Protestantism. When time allows you owe to yourself and fellow Adventists to see for yourself how her spirit is not of God. The thread entitled Observations Upon Sister White is where the material may be found.

As I stated, one thread at a time please. I have not even viewed the thread in question yet, nor intend to, nor respond to any of its 'content', until this thread is at least completed. I find that those who attack the Seventh-day Adventists know how to start things, but never to finish them, and do not stay around long enough to hear the responses, or address them. I will see if you are different than previous experience.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Ellen White had MANY heresies, from ... Jesus... had a sinful nature ...

According to scripture, Jesus [the Son of the Father] had taken upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh (iow, fallen sinful flesh; Romans 8:3), and thus condemned "sin" in that very flesh, the flesh we also bear (Hebrews 2:17). Jesus, himself knew no sin, did no sin, but that speaks to the heart/mind (as Jesus was born of the Holy Ghost; Luke 1:35), not the flesh, as it is written (John 3:6).

To teach that Jesus did not take upon Himself that fallen sinful flesh of mankind, is to negate the entire Gospel, the plan of salvation and redemption. This is why John was so serious in stating what he did here:

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
​

To deny it, would be to also deny that Jesus came of the seed of David according to the flesh (Romans 1:3), being that flesh received from fallen Adam (Luke 3:38).

To deny that Jesus took upon Himself fallen sinful flesh, would also deny what Paul stated in Hebrews 2:

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
​

Angels of Heaven have unfallen flesh, not fallen (1 Corinthians 15:38-42)

 

[Alofa Atu]

Still open for questions. Some of the questions have been really good, and I want to thank those who asked them.

 

[Protestant]

Still open for questions. Some of the questions have been really good, and I want to thank those who asked them.

Still waiting for your response to my questions.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Still waiting for your response to my questions.

Please point out any questions that have not been addressed in this thread (with link to the post), and I would be glad to look them over. If they are questions from another thread, they will have to wait, until I am able to participate in that particular thread from which they originated (I will check the date of posting and time to be sure which was the original).

 

[Protestant]

Please point out any questions that have not been addressed in this thread (with link to the post), and I would be glad to look them over. If they are questions from another thread, they will have to wait, until I am able to participate in that particular thread from which they originated (I will check the date of posting and time to be sure which was the original).

Are you aware the SDA doctrine of probation, whereby it is not possible to know for certain if you will eventually be welcomed into the presence of the Lord, has its origin in Roman Catholicism?

Please read The Council of Trent decree: On Justification, First Decree, Chapter 9, Against the Vain Confidence of Heretics (Source). In it we are told, "But, although it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted, nor ever were remitted save gratuitously by the mercy of God for Christ's sake; yet is it not to be said, that sins are forgiven, or have been forgiven, to any one who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins, and rests on that alone; seeing that it may exist, yea does in our day exist, amongst heretics and schismatics; and with great vehemence is this vain confidence, and one alien from all godliness, preached up in opposition to the Catholic Church."