Questions for Adventist

[Yeshua1]

Seventh-day Adventists do not hate people, just erroneous theologies, practices. Catholics can be Christians (just depends on the persons/individuals).

The theologies of both systems, are as night and day. It is interesting that Rome knows who the enemy is, and points them out by name in their material.

Both of you have salvation by grabe that covers past sins, and must worj to correct sins going forward!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do not make the tragic mistake of confusing the flesh with the spirit:

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.​

Jesus was eternally existing as God, so He was conceived in Mary as the God Man!

 

[Protestant]

Miracles are no sign of a true prophet, though they can be present with a true prophet. John the Baptist, as others I can list from scripture, did no miracle (like Daniel, etc). I can name false prophets which did do miracles.

Miracles done by the power of God are given to prove the divine calling of the prophet. Jesus always emphasized miracles as proof of His Messiahship, "If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father.”

The Apostles raised the dead, healed the sick, discerned unclean spirits, etc., all to prove the authenticity of their calling and message. Tradition tells us John miraculously escaped death though placed in a vat of boiling oil.

Daniel proved his calling when God miraculously saved him from being torn apart in the lion's den.

John the Baptist did not need miracles to prove his calling. He had an even better proof: Isaiah prophesied the Baptist's ministry 750 years earlier.

Paul warns of the coming Antichrist whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. Thus, they are false miracles which can be compared to the sleight of hand and deceptive props used by modern-day magicians. False prophets, such as EGW, can do no God-empowered miracles.

Furthermore, Christ promises His Elect will not ultimately be deceived by their psuedo-signs and wonders. The visions of EGW fall within this category. This is why none on this board will agree with you that she is a genuine prophet of God. It is also the reason why your church stands alone in believing her lies.

Consider the fact that all the biblical prophets are recognized as true by all Christianity.
Yet not one denomination agrees that EGW is true.
Why is that? Are you the only spirit-filled Christian denomination who can legitimately call Jesus 'Lord?'

Or are you the only professing Christian denomination who is blind to the truth of the matter......EGW is a fraud who is leading vast numbers of sincere, yet deceived, religious folks astray.

 

[Protestant]

Let's assume (your position) for just a moment and think that God left out the warning for "thousands of years". If we were to apply that same reasoning, logic and understanding or position to the Bible itself, we would have to conclude that God did the same there also. Consider Paul in "Jannes and Jambres". Consider Jude in speaking of the resurrection of "Moses" and the confrontation over the body thereof. Consider just John's Gospel, as compared to Matthew, Mark's and Luke's, which (John's) was provided many years later. Consider the Revelation itself as summing up things in the OT and giving greater details and further expanding upon what was in the beginning. We can even just consider Genesis 1 compared to Genesis 2, in it's expansion of Genesis 1. Are we to then also assume God forget and had to add something more later? or should we consider God's method and character:

You forget or dismiss one important fact: The persons you mentioned above were all authentic prophets of God. Thus, they spoke that which God willed them to speak. EGW has not the authentication of God. She speaks lies in the name of God. Moreover, by your comparing EGW writings with that of Genesis 1 & 2 is quite telling. You have placed her pathetic writings as necessary additions to Holy Writ, equal in authority. Once again, you prove your denomination outside historic Christianity, denying several truths believed by orthodox Christians for 2 millennia:
(1) The canon of Scripture is closed.
(2) Scripture is not deficient in anyway. It needs no 'prophetic clarification.'
(3) We are to be aware of the infiltration of wolves in sheep's clothing.
(4) We are to test the spirits to see if they be of God.

We all agree, no matter the denomination. EGW is not of God and should be shunned.

And finally, Jesus promises, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Every denomination flees from EGW, her teachings and her church. But not yours.

 

[Protestant]

I know right now whether or not, I am in or not in, Christ Jesus during the time of probation.

You failed to reply to my question regarding this statement of yours.

(1) How do you know with assurance?
(2) Do you know with any assurance of your future standing? Or must you wait until next week to know your standing next week?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Both of you have salvation by gra[c]e that covers past sins,

That is what Scripture states most plainly:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

and must wor[k] to correct sins going forward!

It is God that works in us to cease from sin going forward (it's the fulfillment of the New and Everlasting Covenant), and we co-operate with Him through exercising the faith in Him given unto us unto perfect obedience (hence the phrase the "Just shall live by faith") in salvation (which is being saved not merely from all past sins (Justification) but also all present and future sins to sinlessness (Sanctification unto Glorification):

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
​

It is the job of the Holy Ghost to convict of sin, and it is our part to heed that voice and thus turn as God calls us to repent of those sins, all of them.

Joh_16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

Jesus then not only forgives the sin confessed and repented of, but does the greater work of cleansing us from that sin, meaning, brings us to cease from the sin. This is "the faith of Jesus", not merely the faith in Jesus.

The point of the shed blood of Jesus is to bring us back to a life without sin. His command has always been (now that we are forgiven in Him) cease from sin:

Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.​

 

[Alofa Atu]

Jesus was eternally existing as God ...

Yes, Jesus (the Son of the Father) was ever Deity (God), Philippians 2, etc. What does that have to do with what we are discussing? Where have I ever denied this truth?

so He was conceived in Mary as the God Man!

It is indeed written:

Luk_1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.​

So, yes, Jesus is God-Man. Yet, the scripture which I cited to you, is most clear:

Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Rom_1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,​

You just told me that Jesus was born of "the Holy Spirit", yes? born of a "woman" of the flesh of the seed of David, yes?

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:​

What "flesh" was nailed to the Cross? Unfallen or fallen? Perfect flesh (Adam before the fall) or sinful flesh (Adam after the fall)?

Therefore, do not confuse the "holy Spirit", with the likeness of sinful flesh. The flesh of Jesus was indeed (fallen, not unfallen as the Heavenly angels have) sinful flesh):

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.​

Is not Jesus born of Adam after he fell? See Luke 3; Matthew 1:

Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.​

 

[Alofa Atu]

It has been a good run. If there are any other questions, please begin a new thread, as this one has come to its end. Thank you all for participating.

 

[Protestant]

It has been a good run. If there are any other questions, please begin a new thread, as this one has come to its end. Thank you all for participating.

Unfortunately, you refuse to respond to my questions posed above, as well as my rebuttal to two of your answers which I have also posted above.

I can only conclude you have no response. I do hope your lack of response causes you to re-think your anti-biblical positions.

Consider: All true God-approved prophets are those who have contributed to Scripture or whose works are honored in His Word. All professing Christian denominations agree they are authentic. We should listen and learn from them.

Yet NOT ONE Christian denomination, other than yours, believes EGW is a prophet of God. Rather, they ALL condemn her as false, giving substantial reasons with verifiable proofs.

It is my contention, as well as that of others, that EGW was a witch who was guided by familiar spirits.

Thus, it is my contention the SDA church, under the guise of Christianity, is led by an 'angel of light' described by Paul in 2 Cor. 11.

Those ex-members who have left Adventism are quite vocal in their opposition, Why? They care for the souls of those who are still members, and they feel it their duty to warn others before they join.

I consider the testimony of Walter Wheeler as one which explains a major defect in the church in terms easily comprehensible:

“As a pre-teenager and teenager, I would hear individuals at church quoting Mrs. White on a specific topic. It would usually start out something like “Mrs. White says…” Rarely, at that age or older, would I hear “My understanding of what the Bible says in “verses is …” Thus, much time and effort was spent studying Mrs. White’s writings, rather than prayerfully reading and studying the Bible to understand what God wanted in our lives.” (Source)

 

[Yeshua1]

That is what Scripture states most plainly:

Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

It is God that works in us to cease from sin going forward (it's the fulfillment of the New and Everlasting Covenant), and we co-operate with Him through exercising the faith in Him given unto us unto perfect obedience (hence the phrase the "Just shall live by faith") in salvation (which is being saved not merely from all past sins (Justification) but also all present and future sins to sinlessness (Sanctification unto Glorification):

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
​

It is the job of the Holy Ghost to convict of sin, and it is our part to heed that voice and thus turn as God calls us to repent of those sins, all of them.

Joh_16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.​

Jesus then not only forgives the sin confessed and repented of, but does the greater work of cleansing us from that sin, meaning, brings us to cease from the sin. This is "the faith of Jesus", not merely the faith in Jesus.

The point of the shed blood of Jesus is to bring us back to a life without sin. His command has always been (now that we are forgiven in Him) cease from sin:

Joh_5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.​

Paul styaes that we have now fully Justified right now, and are no longer under condemnation, and John states have passed from judgement unto eternal life, and are right now saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

Unfortunately, you refuse to respond to my questions posed above, as well as my rebuttal to two of your answers which I have also posted above.

I can only conclude you have no response. I do hope your lack of response causes you to re-think your anti-biblical positions.

Consider: All true God-approved prophets are those who have contributed to Scripture or whose works are honored in His Word. All professing Christian denominations agree they are authentic. We should listen and learn from them.

Yet NOT ONE Christian denomination, other than yours, believes EGW is a prophet of God. Rather, they ALL condemn her as false, giving substantial reasons with verifiable proofs.

It is my contention, as well as that of others, that EGW was a witch who was guided by familiar spirits.

Thus, it is my contention the SDA church, under the guise of Christianity, is led by an 'angel of light' described by Paul in 2 Cor. 11.

Those ex-members who have left Adventism are quite vocal in their opposition, Why? They care for the souls of those who are still members, and they feel it their duty to warn others before they join.

I consider the testimony of Walter Wheeler as one which explains a major defect in the church in terms easily comprehensible:

“As a pre-teenager and teenager, I would hear individuals at church quoting Mrs. White on a specific topic. It would usually start out something like “Mrs. White says…” Rarely, at that age or older, would I hear “My understanding of what the Bible says in “verses is …” Thus, much time and effort was spent studying Mrs. White’s writings, rather than prayerfully reading and studying the Bible to understand what God wanted in our lives.” (Source)

Why should we see her any different then Joseph Smith?

 

[Protestant]

Why should we see her any different then Joseph Smith?

Of course. Or Mary Baker Eddy or Joanna Southcott.....the list is endless.

 

[robycop3]

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are (Revelation 13:1,11), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
​

The lake (sea) of fire will (future) burn upon this present earth. It is even foretold in the OT prophets and NT Apostles:

Isa_28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.​

Revelation 21:1 is the evidence you asked for. It is irrefutable.

Sorry, Catbird ! The Scriptures do NOT say the LOF will be upon the earth. And the burning-up of the surface of the earth will be at the end of the millenium, after the final judgment, & there are no people left upon the earth. And that is NOT the LOF, either !

 

[robycop3]

Sister White (see Great Controversy, etc), Joseph Bates, James White, and the pioneers all 'found' it (there) in scripture. Also, who is this, and what are they looking at in scripture?

The "theologians" you are referring to, in meeting with Walter Martin, were all being deceptive with one another, and are most definitely not representative of the Seventh-day Adventist body collectively. Dathan, Korah and Abiram were among God's people, and denied God's word, as Judas also, but their theology was not that of God's.

OK, then, please present us with Scripture that affirms "investigative judgment".

 

[robycop3]

True. Joseph Smith (LDS) being an infamous one, and yet he wouldn't be the first nor last. This is why God, in the scriptures, warned about false prophets that would be present, along with the true:

Mat_24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

1Co_14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Eph_3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

2Pe_2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.​

Of course. Many believed Hananiah (Jeremiah 28:1-17) the false prophet in the days of Jeremiah the true prophet. The devil always raises up a (or many) counterfeit(-s) when the true is revealed and present. It was always been this way from the beginning. Even when Enoch and Noah were prophesying, others were raised up by the devil to counter their message, with messages of "peace, peace", and "peace and safety".

I would say as a general rule, "No doubt, no doubt.", though some might be in it to simply make money, or for their own gains (say like the nearest to Benny Hinn, etc).

I am most sincere, but being sincere is not the basis for deciding what is true from false. The Bible (KJB) is the standard for delineating Truth from Error, not myself (or my sincerity).

Generally true, though not always in every case. Some prophecies can be realized even with a false prophet, as it is written in scripture:

Deu_13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;​

Moreover, for Seventh-day Adventists, we do not, and have never, claimed that we "alone hold divine truth". For instance, many (not all) Baptists hold to the literal, natural, consecutive 7 days of Creation by God about 6,000 years ago. Truth is not owned by us. Truth is God's, and He shares it with whom He wills. Another for instance, is in the teaching that Michael is just another designation for the Son of God, and this was (and in some cases still is) held by many, including Baptists, Methodists, Anglicans, Theologians, Scholars, etc. The truth of that matter is not merely held by us (Seventh-day Adventists). Thus goes for all the truths we hold (state of the dead, Justification, diet, etc), with the possible exceptions of the Investigative Judgment and Heavenly Sanctuary, which all are free to claim as truth also.

Miracles are no sign of a true prophet, though they can be present with a true prophet. John the Baptist, as others I can list from scripture, did no miracle (like Daniel, etc). I can name false prophets which did do miracles.

Truth, as sister White herself does not contradict herself, neither the previous prophets before her.

Not true, see Daniel, John the Baptist, etc. No miracles.

I, of course by the evidence I have seen, disagree with you.

Moses was guided by Jethro, and his assistant was Aaron, Miriam and also Joshua. Daniel had schooling, etc. The libraries of Israel I am sure were quite large, for Solomon, and others like Jeremiah (whose scribe and assistant was Baruch), and likewise for Paul (whose assistant was at least Tertius (for Romans)).. Daniel, Peter and Paul were all visited by angels, among others.

This is simply an accusation, baseless in evidence. It may be safely ignored. She wrote whole books against "mesmerism", see "Mind, Character and Personality", Volumes 1 & 2 to begin with.

Jim Jones had some interesting connections, and his basic background was in Roman Catholic social justice theology. He also had people kill themselves (at gun point no less).

Sister White is far removed from any such thing. To say otherwise, is to paint with a palette of colour representative of the enemy of all souls.

Thank you for your personal commentary. I disagree with much of it, based upon my scriptural & historical position evidenced in facts.

EGY was among the false prophets that have come in modern times. Three glaring goofs she wrote are 'investigative judgment', annihilationism', & ' Jesus = Michael = Jesus.'

And no, the KJV (NOT "KJB") is not "the Bible". It's an antiquated translation of it, having been replaced by modern translations, in our own language style.

 

[Yeshua1]

OK, then, please present us with Scripture that affirms "investigative judgment".

the sda had believe 27 of their best scholars take 5 years, and came back concluding not found in the Bible!

 

[Yeshua1]

EGY was among the false prophets that have come in modern times. Three glaring goofs she wrote are 'investigative judgment', annihilationism', & ' Jesus = Michael = Jesus.'

And no, the KJV (NOT "KJB") is not "the Bible". It's an antiquated translation of it, having been replaced by modern translations, in our own language style.

it is the only version though that says sanctuary in Daniel, so they leap at that as support for EW IJ!

 

[Alofa Atu]

it is the only version though that says sanctuary in Daniel, so they leap at that as support for EW IJ!

Would you like to clarify what you mean? - Daniel 8:14 - Bible Gateway

The word "sanctuary" is found in many 'translations' of Daniel, as per the link provided.

The Hebrew word "qodesh" as found in Daniel 8:14, is translated 55 times in the KJB as "sanctuary":

Dan 8:14 ויאמר אלי עד ערב בקר אלפים ושׁלשׁ מאות ונצדק קדשׁ׃

Dan 8:14 waYomer ëlay ad erev Boqer al'Payim ûsh'losh mëôt w'nitz'Daq qodesh​

sanctuary, 55

Exo_30:13, Exo_30:24, Exo_36:1, Exo_36:3-4 (2), Exo_36:6, Exo_38:24-27 (4), Lev_4:6, Lev_5:15, Lev_10:4, Lev_27:3, Lev_27:25, Num_3:28, Num_3:31-32 (2), Num_3:47, Num_3:50, Num_4:12, Num_4:15-16 (3), Num_7:9, Num_7:86, Num_8:19, Num_18:3, Num_18:5, Num_18:16, 1Ch_9:29, 1Ch_24:5, 2Ch_30:19, Psa_63:2 (2), Psa_68:24, Psa_74:3, Psa_77:13, Psa_78:54, Psa_102:19, Psa_134:2 (2), Psa_150:1, Isa_43:28, Lam_4:1, Eze_41:21, Eze_41:23, Eze_42:20, Eze_44:27 (2), Eze_45:2, Dan_8:13-14 (2), Dan_9:26, Zep_3:4​

Feel free to also look up these verses in the other 'translations', and I am sure you will also find many translate the same.

 

[Alofa Atu]

OK, then, please present us with Scripture that affirms "investigative judgment".

See the video in total, or the powerpoint included if you do not like video.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Why should we see her any different then Joseph Smith?

Well, I had asked previously if any desired to study prophets in scripture, and that would have been a helpful thing to do, and that offer is still open for another thread.