Quick-and-Dirty Calvinism

[OCC]

"23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?"

Well this verse sure shoots down Johnp's belief that God never hated him.

 

[johnp.]

Hello KJ.

A scripture at last but I don't get your point.
Try this.

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

john.

 

[BobRyan]

Hmm == how much does God "foreknow"??

 

[johnp.]

show a scripture where the foreknowledge is to do with a sinner

john

 

[OCC]

John...the point (since you can't "get it") is that God desires the wicked to turn. That shoots down your claim that you were never wicked and that God hated you. After all, God hates the wicked. So there you have it...you were wicked and God hated you. You and He said so.

 

[johnp.]

show a scripture where the foreknowledge is to do with a sinner

God hated Jesus for me.

john

 

[OCC]

John...I'm not in the mood. Have fun.

 

[johnp.]

Hello KJ.

John...I'm not in the mood. Have fun.

Thank you I will.

john.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by johnp.:
show a scripture where the foreknowledge is to do with a sinner

God hated Jesus for me.

john

Seems to me God hated sin more! So he sent the only emissary who could handle the job of atoning for sin, and that is His only begotten son. Just think, God loved the world (all mankind) so much that he sent his only son, to atone for the sin of the world, so that man could be redeemed and have everlasting life.

You really think God hated his son?

I think God knew His only Son so well that the son was the only one He trusted to carry out the Redemption Mission so that the rest of us whom God so loved could have life everlasting.

Thank YOU Jesus!

Why are you so short sighted Johnp?

 

[johnp.]

Hello Wes.

You really think God hated his son?

"Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"

john.

 

[Wes Outwest]

"Forsaking me" does not translate to "Hating Me"!

My god My God why hast thou forsaken me?

In order for the Atoning sacrifice to be complete, God the Father had to allow the death of his Son! Else there would be no atonement for sin, and no Eternal life for man! Therefore the father turned his back on his son who had to die to atone for sin! The Father had to release the son!

We see this a lot in children of divorce when one parent leaves the child turns there back because they cannot bear to watch the parent go!

Why do you not understand these things?

Further, would you rejoice in the death of your only son?

 

[johnp.]

Hello Wes.

You really think God hated his son?

Well when I said yes I was shooting from the hip but it has been on my mind. It's a very difficult question. On the one hand I see this way and on the other hand I see thing another.

Anyone that is hung on a tree is cursed by God. Gal 3:13.

"curse." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (24 Jun. 2005)

'Curse' is worth looking up. There is very little love in it. It has harm attached to it so that is not love.

john.

 

[OCC]

Me, I always thought the "cursed on a tree" meant Jesus became sin for us and sin was cursed on the tree. But God still loved Jesus...He just had to look away at the time. How God could hate God is beyond my understanding.

 

[johnp.]

Hello KJ.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us...

...for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

But God still loved Jesus...

Not according to scripture with my understanding of the word 'curse'.

He just had to look away at the time.

Now where on earth, heavens or hell could He look away to? He has no free will to close His eyes to unpleasantness especially as He is the One being Unpleasant. It was His own wrath that He poured out on Jesus.

God could hate God is beyond my understanding.

That's why we think scripture is important.

john.

 

[OCC]

You imply that I don't think Scripture is important.

Scripture says that the Father loves the Son, no? I'm wondering...why God would give One whom He "hates" as a sacrifice for sins? How could someone He hates BE a sacrifice for sins?

"Now where on earth, heavens or hell could He look away to?" Maybe the same direction He was looking when Moses saw Him from the back?

 

[johnp.]

Hello KJ.

You imply that I don't think Scripture is important.

Do I? I wonder why? Forgive me.

I'm wondering...why God would give One whom He "hates" as a sacrifice for sins?

Then use scripture and harmonise your questions with Gal 3:13.

"Now where on earth, heavens or hell could He look away to?" Maybe the same direction He was looking when Moses saw Him from the back?

2 Chr 2:6 But who is able to build a temple for him, since the heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain him?
John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Where was that then?

john.

 

[OCC]

Johnnyboy...just because I don't post a lot of Scripture doesn't mean I don't think Scripture is important. When my "opinion" is in line (which it is) with Scripture why should I bother?
However, if you want Scripture I can confront your silly manner of posting, your egotism, and your faulty theology that you don't have to love people...that you don't have to care about the welfare of their souls.

"Where was that then?" The pentateuch. Afraid to know it's there? God actually "looked away" and thus I proved you wrong. Cheers...drink a tea for me will ya chap?

Do the British say "toodles..."?

 

[Wes Outwest]

Jesus said, 'I and the father are one', and 'If you have see me you have seen My Father in Heaven'; So how does God hate Himself? How is that Possible, in light of His love for the world?

You're not makin' sense, Johnp!

 

[OCC]

Yeah if He hates Himself...how can we trust His love for us?

 

[johnp.]

Hello KJ.

Johnnyboy...just because I don't post a lot of Scripture doesn't mean I don't think Scripture is important.

It's not important then if you post little? Might be that you erred in saying that you think studying about God's revelation about Himself will make you horrible like a Calvinist?

When my "opinion" is in line (which it is) with Scripture why should I bother [quoting scripture)?

HaHa! You jest I think. A jolly jape I must admit but all joking aside I hear His voice not yours and so do the sheep.
But you jest! You don't bother with scripture because what you say is good enough? Brilliant in it's depth.
When my "opinion" is in line (which it is) with Scripture why should I bother? I'm sure that this should be as bold as you as you say I am an egotist! Brilliant!

However, if you want Scripture I can confront your silly manner of posting, your egotism, and your faulty theology that you don't have to love people...that you don't have to care about the welfare of their souls.

Maybe so I am not a clever clogs but where is the scripture that you oppose me with, I can't see any?

"Where was that then?" The pentateuch...God actually "looked away"

Oh well done! I am a fool I an beaten by a better man.

...and thus I proved you wrong. Cheers...drink a tea for me will ya chap?

I'm always drinking tea and it is not the done thing to have a cup of tea on someone I don't think. But I have had a few pints so anything might happen!

Do the British say "toodles..."?

That would be the upper middle class I think and they are not my class. My class are a bit blunter! If you know what I mean.

Yeah if He hates Himself...how can we trust His love for us?

Come on then clever clogs let's have some of your wisdom on the matter. What does curse mean?
The questions:
What does curse mean?
What does curse mean?
What does curse mean?

Three questions for you kj, answer one and I'll stop asking you.

john.