O
OCC
Guest
"Oh well done! I am a fool I an beaten by a better man."
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Quick-and-Dirty Calvinism
- Thread starter Monergist
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
This is too funny!!
JohnP you are indeed the PERFECT candidate for Calvinism!!
What a hoot!!
"God SO LOVED the WORLD" JohnP- "REALLY"!!
And GOD LOVED the Son -- YES EVEN when He was on earth. God said "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON... HEAR HIM"
Calvinsts are soooo tied up with "God hates hates hates" that they can not ALLOW HIM to "So love the WORLD" and now YOU claim He can not be allowed to LOVE CHrist!!!
NO WONDER you anticpate the joy of seeing your own children suffering the torments of the flames since you WILL NOT love them any longer should they be there!!
What a riot!!
I salute you sir.
In Christ,
Bob
O
OCC
Guest
LOL Bob...now He believes God doesn't even love Himself.
I thought I was the perfect candidate for Arminianism too. lol
I thought I was the perfect candidate for Arminianism too. lol
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ became a curse for us - God was IN CHRIST reconciling the WORLD to HIMSELF! He made HIM who KNEW no sin to BE sin in OUR behalf -- 2Cor 5 but NEVER does scripture say "God hated his Son".
Yet this is an extreme to which John will gladly leap!!
How convenient for Arminians.
In Christ,
Bob
Yet this is an extreme to which John will gladly leap!!
How convenient for Arminians.
In Christ,
Bob
O
OCC
Guest
Agreed Bob.
Hello KJ.
I asked you three questions and you managed to offer nothing in exchange but sought my opinion. Look the word up don't listen to me.
Hello Bob.
john.
Since Christ became a curse for me I can know for sure that He loves me. That He gave me His Son when I was His enemy why should I fear His intentions to me are anything but love. His intentions to me are only love now and forever more and that I believe and I trust in Him.
Not a better man but one approved of God.
I asked you three questions and you managed to offer nothing in exchange but sought my opinion. Look the word up don't listen to me.
Hello Bob.
I would like the three of you to get together on this. Instead of asking three questions I shall ask three to answer one. Could you, when you are ready, provide for me the meaning of the word 'curse' please showing me where in the word 'curse' love resides?
If I have gone for Calvinism hook, line and sinker then why would that be embarrassing for Calvinists? If I am out of line with Calvinism why would that be embarrassing for Calvinists?
If I have gone for Calvinism hook, line and sinker then why would that be embarrassing for Calvinists? If I am out of line with Calvinism why would that be embarrassing for Calvinists KJ?
john.
O
OCC
Guest
You are out of line with Calvinism John because no Calvinist that I know of thinks they were saved before the foundation of the world, no Calvinist thinks that God hates His own Son(thereby hating Himself), etc. etc. etc.
"His intentions to me are only love now"...I thought they always were?
"His intentions to me are only love now"...I thought they always were?
O
OCC
Guest
"And where have you heard that this is what I believe but I was chosen in Him before the creation of the world?"
Answer: In this forum...you said it yourself...to me.
Do you want the noun definition or the verb for "curse" John? I think I'll give you the verb.
Curse: -to invoke evil, misfortune, damnation (are you saying God would invoke evil?...course yer not)
-to swear at (you're not saying God swears)
-to bring evil upon (are you saying God does that?)
I don't know...which meaning are you willing to accept?
Scripture for ya: If God hates sinners, what do you say to 1 Peter 2:22? If that verse is true (and it is), why would God hate Jesus (His Son, logically..Himself)?
Answer: In this forum...you said it yourself...to me.
Do you want the noun definition or the verb for "curse" John? I think I'll give you the verb.
Curse: -to invoke evil, misfortune, damnation (are you saying God would invoke evil?...course yer not)
-to swear at (you're not saying God swears)
-to bring evil upon (are you saying God does that?)
I don't know...which meaning are you willing to accept?
Scripture for ya: If God hates sinners, what do you say to 1 Peter 2:22? If that verse is true (and it is), why would God hate Jesus (His Son, logically..Himself)?
Hello KJ.
Because He would rather hate His Son than me would seem an obvious answer. How can I ever doubt His love for me?
john.
That I was saved before I was born? Always in the mind of God was I as one of His but salvation comes to man at a time of His choosing. Since you say I said that a man is saved before he is born then I must apologise and retract my error.
Then use scripture and harmonise your understanding of the word 'curse' with Gal 3:13. As for me I do not need the definition as I know it but I find no love in 'curse' do you?
If that verse is true (and it is), why would God hate Jesus (His Son, logically..Himself)?
Because He would rather hate His Son than me would seem an obvious answer. How can I ever doubt His love for me?
john.
O
OCC
Guest
"Since you say I said that a man is saved before he is born then I must apologise and retract my error."
Well John...that is what I got from what you said. If I am wrong, then I am sorry.
Nope...no love in curse. But it seems to me that sin was cursed on the tree (as Jesus became sin for us) but Jesus Himself was always loved by the Father. Otherwise God would be a schizophrenic, no? Loves Him, loves Him not, loves Him again three days later. My head is spinning.
"How can I ever doubt His love for me?" Because you can't know that He does if Calvinism is true. You could be like those whom He says "I never knew you" to. After all...they thought God loved them too didn't they?
Well John...that is what I got from what you said. If I am wrong, then I am sorry.
Nope...no love in curse. But it seems to me that sin was cursed on the tree (as Jesus became sin for us) but Jesus Himself was always loved by the Father. Otherwise God would be a schizophrenic, no? Loves Him, loves Him not, loves Him again three days later. My head is spinning.
"How can I ever doubt His love for me?" Because you can't know that He does if Calvinism is true. You could be like those whom He says "I never knew you" to. After all...they thought God loved them too didn't they?
Hello KJ.
What does 'became a curse for us' mean? That sins were cursed or He was?
As for 'Otherwise God would be a schizophrenic' I cannot answer your question.
It's an imperative for the lover to let the beloved know is it not? Since He says He loves me why would you think He never told me? Why should you think that He does not want to spend every minute of the day with me. Hope is not a wish but a certainty. Grace upon grace has been extended to me and this grace was not without effect but only as God chose.
What can I do when He leads me out onto a limb only uphold me out here?
john.
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
What does 'became a curse for us' mean? That sins were cursed or He was?
As for 'Otherwise God would be a schizophrenic' I cannot answer your question.
The scriptures are a love letter to His children and He wants us to understand the depth of His love so He lets us know.
It's an imperative for the lover to let the beloved know is it not? Since He says He loves me why would you think He never told me? Why should you think that He does not want to spend every minute of the day with me.
Hope is not a wish but a certainty. Grace upon grace has been extended to me and this grace was not without effect but only as God chose.What can I do when He leads me out onto a limb only uphold me out here?
john.
O
OCC
Guest
Thanks for your answer John. I have nothing to argue with.
All I know is if Calvinism is true I can't know for sure that God loves me. If Arminianism is true, I can know for sure that God loves me.
All I know is if Calvinism is true I can't know for sure that God loves me. If Arminianism is true, I can know for sure that God loves me.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
And if you're a Primitive Baptist, it doesn't matter if you love God or not.... you could love missionaries.... lightly salted, for dinner (cannibal) and despise God and yet still be one chosen for Gloryland and that heavenly mansion.
O
OCC
Guest
LOL Diane
No...I'm just a Baptist...a Christian actually.
Hello dianetavegia.
Faith makes a cannibal saved.
As an Arminian you can know God loves you only so long as you love Him. But we return to the God of Sobs do we?
Works, giving up eating missionaries, will damn you.
john.
With Calvinism you will know that God loves you if you believe in Him. I have heard of doubt but I do not suffer it.
Faith makes a cannibal saved.
As an Arminian you can know God loves you only so long as you love Him. But we return to the God of Sobs do we?
Works, giving up eating missionaries, will damn you.
john.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Hello Bob.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...but NEVER does scripture say "God hated his Son".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you need an "excuse" to hang your made-up idea on -- and you pick this substitutionary atonement fact spinning it around as "if" it is saying God hates Christ!!
Again - just like your "Election determined by genetics" fallacy - NO CALVINIST will go for this kind of rubbish let alone another Arminian!!
John I appreciate the fact that you are so willing to crawl out on those limbs and then saw them off yourself. But come on! There must be a limit!
In 2Cor 5 God says "HE made Him Who knew no sin to BE SIN in our behalf so that WE might become the righteousness of God in Christ"
This is another one of those substitutionary atonement style text that is NOT saying "God hated Christ"!!
So you "need" to INSERT that idea INTO these texts -- and indeed "you make it up" with little or no reservation as you crawl out on limb after limb in your all-for-Calvinism defense.
I don't mind admitting that these extremes are where Calvinism might lead someone who took it seriously - except none of your fellow Calvinists seem to want to crawl out there with you -- so I am stuck just saying "it is you alone".
"You" have claimed as much in the past. I will give you this credit. If you are so willing to hate your own child upon finding out that they are not among the arbitrarily select "FEW" of Matt 7 in heaven - (because you think God will hate them too) -- and if you are so willing to turn a blind eye to scripture showing God to WEEP over the lost -- then it is no wonder you are now looking to INSERT the idea in scripture that God hated Christ.
I see how that Calvinist progression would lead you to such a defensive - yet rediculous position.
In Christ,
Bob
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...but NEVER does scripture say "God hated his Son".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have no actual text that "says God hates Christ" so you "make it up".
Then you need an "excuse" to hang your made-up idea on -- and you pick this substitutionary atonement fact spinning it around as "if" it is saying God hates Christ!!
Again - just like your "Election determined by genetics" fallacy - NO CALVINIST will go for this kind of rubbish let alone another Arminian!!
John I appreciate the fact that you are so willing to crawl out on those limbs and then saw them off yourself. But come on! There must be a limit!
In 2Cor 5 God says "HE made Him Who knew no sin to BE SIN in our behalf so that WE might become the righteousness of God in Christ"
This is another one of those substitutionary atonement style text that is NOT saying "God hated Christ"!!
So you "need" to INSERT that idea INTO these texts -- and indeed "you make it up" with little or no reservation as you crawl out on limb after limb in your all-for-Calvinism defense.
I don't mind admitting that these extremes are where Calvinism might lead someone who took it seriously - except none of your fellow Calvinists seem to want to crawl out there with you -- so I am stuck just saying "it is you alone".
"You" have claimed as much in the past. I will give you this credit. If you are so willing to hate your own child upon finding out that they are not among the arbitrarily select "FEW" of Matt 7 in heaven - (because you think God will hate them too) -- and if you are so willing to turn a blind eye to scripture showing God to WEEP over the lost -- then it is no wonder you are now looking to INSERT the idea in scripture that God hated Christ.
I see how that Calvinist progression would lead you to such a defensive - yet rediculous position.
In Christ,
Bob
O
OCC
Guest
John...like he's asked...how come no Calvinist OR Arminian is jumping out here to back you up on the "curse" thing? If I were you...that would get me thinking at least.