Rapture in 70 AD

[JohnDeereFan]

Wow. Three big mistakes in two short sentences.

1.Belief in a rapture happening at AD 70 does not equate to Preterism. I am a Preterist, but I do not believe in a rapture. Not as it is presented in much of modern Christianity.

2. Hank Hannegraaf might be partial Preterist. There is a considerable difference between partial and full Preterism, which is what I am. (Although the term "full" is not the best term.)

3. Preterism is not really overwhelmingly popular anywhere, but it is growing. Moreover adherents to Preterism come from a wide variety of backgrounds, certainly including Arminians and Calvinists.

Your opinion is duly noted.

 

[Robert Snow]

I'd rather be a futurist than to be one who misses Christ's return in the clouds because I wasn't looking for Him.

The only thing more ignorant than Preterism is Calvinism. Both lead Christians away from the truth and toward error.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

The only thing more ignorant than Preterism is Calvinism. Both lead Christians away from the truth and toward error.

Actually, the ignorance is in calling that which you don't understand "ignorant".

 

[Robert Snow]

Wow. Three big mistakes in two short sentences.

1.Belief in a rapture happening at AD 70 does not equate to Preterism. I am a Preterist, but I do not believe in a rapture. Not as it is presented in much of modern Christianity.

2. Hank Hannegraaf might be partial Preterist. There is a considerable difference between partial and full Preterism, which is what I am. (Although the term "full" is not the best term.)

3. Preterism is not really overwhelmingly popular anywhere, but it is growing. Moreover adherents to Preterism come from a wide variety of backgrounds, certainly including Arminians and Calvinists.

If there has ever been a heresy in the church, full preterism is among the top. I cannot believe that you are allowed to espouse this false doctrine at this Christian site. If anything should be banned it's those who believe like you.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

If there has ever been a heresy in the church, full preterism is among the top.

More heretical than Finneyism?

 

[asterisktom]

If there has ever been a heresy in the church, full preterism is among the top. I cannot believe that you are allowed to espouse this false doctrine at this Christian site. If anything should be banned it's those who believe like you.

Show me from Scripture how Preterism is heresy.

I used to feel as strongly as you did, years ago. I even kicked people off of my group because of Preterism. But someone had patience with me, carefully explaining those passages that I had misunderstood, or, in many cases, never really noticed.

Show me from the Bible.

 

[asterisktom]

More heretical than Finneyism?

BTW, I appreciated your gentle response to my "three big errors" comment. You did better than I did. Sometimes I get a bit testy, and I need to not be that way.

 

[Robert Snow]

Actually, the ignorance is in calling that which you don't understand "ignorant".

I do understand them, just like I understand the false Jehovah's Witness doctrine. All three are in serious error.

 

[Robert Snow]

More heretical than Finneyism?

I don't support Finneyism either.

 

[Robert Snow]

Show me from Scripture how Preterism is heresy.

I used to feel as strongly as you did, years ago. I even kicked people off of my group because of Preterism. But someone had patience with me, carefully explaining those passages that I had misunderstood, or, in many cases, never really noticed.

Show me from the Bible.

I will not waste my time playing your game. You have been shown the error or Preterism for months if not years here, yet you still refuse the truth. Continue in your false doctrine if you must. Just because you turned from the truth of God to fables, don't blame me.

I'm through with this thread, too much false doctrine, like Preterism, gives me a headache. :wavey:

 

[asterisktom]

I will not waste my time playing your game. You have been shown the error or Preterism for months if not years here, yet you still refuse the truth. Continue in your false doctrine if you must. Just because you turned from the truth of God to fables, don't blame me.

I'm through with this thread, too much false doctrine, like Preterism, gives me a headache. :wavey:

Bible reading and discussion is not a game. It is earnest business. However, suit yourself.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Bible reading and discussion is not a game.

It is to Arminians. That's why we have MacArthur, Sproul, Johnson, Don Green, Michael Horton, Al Mohler, RW Glenn, Mark Dever, Russell Moore, etc, and they have Joel Osteen, Rick Warren, and Rob Bell.

 

[saturneptune]

Show me from Scripture how Preterism is heresy.

I used to feel as strongly as you did, years ago. I even kicked people off of my group because of Preterism. But someone had patience with me, carefully explaining those passages that I had misunderstood, or, in many cases, never really noticed.

Show me from the Bible.

I have not entered this thread, because I do not know enough about the 70 AD theory to comment. I did go to Utube and listen to a speaker, forgot the name, but had six one hour videos to explain the differences between partial Preterism and futurism. It was called Victorious Eschatology.

Anyway, he started by going over the three questions asked in Matthew 24. He claims the first two are linked to the destruction of Jerusalem, but that the third one is futurist. In a later video, he also claims there will be a second coming of the Lord in the future.

Also, in another video (I have not been through all six, but just short of four) he explains the differences in Daniel 2. The large stone that crushes all the other empires. It is basically the same pattern, one is 70 AD, the other is in the future.

I will agree with one thing you said, that it is possible to believe in partial preterism without a Rapture in 70 AD.

So what year do you think Revelation was written? I strongly believe what the Bible says that the Lord will return as He left at the ascension. I can see where this is a doctrine that takes quite a bit of study before criticizing like some here have, but it also takes a lot of study before I would ever consider it Scriptural. I just think we have lots of posters on this board who start a fight about something they have no clue as to what they are talking about.

 

[asterisktom]

Also, in another video (I have not been through all six, but just short of four) he explains the differences in Daniel 2. The large stone that crushes all the other empires. It is basically the same pattern, one is 70 AD, the other is in the future.

Daniel 2 was one of the first passages that, back in the 70s, started to turn on a red light about my beliefs. I was doing a paper at BJU on Daniel's vision. Although I followed my instructor's view that this was still future, I already noticed the marked parallel to the NT and to the first century event.

So what year do you think Revelation was written? I strongly believe what the Bible says that the Lord will return as He left at the ascension. I can see where this is a doctrine that takes quite a bit of study before criticizing like some here have, but it also takes a lot of study before I would ever consider it Scriptural. I just think we have lots of posters on this board who start a fight about something they have no clue as to what they are talking about.

I believe that Revelation was written sometime in the 60s. The evidence is both external and internal. I had written on this elsewhere.

Yes, Preterism (of any stripe) is something that often provokes a fight. Which is a shame, because when we fight we don't examine things dispassionately. I did the same thing. My Yahoo group ABCProphecy started in the 90s was strongly Pre-wrath. Like I said, I showed many Preterists the door. Too bad the I didn't take the time to listen to what they were saying, to objectively weigh their argument.

 

[HankD]

Daniel 2 was one of the first passages that, back in the 70s, started to turn on a red light about my beliefs. I was doing a paper at BJU on Daniel's vision. Although I followed my instructor's view that this was still future, I already noticed the marked parallel to the NT and to the first century event.



I believe that Revelation was written sometime in the 60s. The evidence is both external and internal. I had written on this elsewhere.

Yes, Preterism (of any stripe) is something that often provokes a fight. Which is a shame, because when we fight we don't examine things dispassionately. I did the same thing. My Yahoo group ABCProphecy started in the 90s was strongly Pre-wrath. Like I said, I showed many Preterists the door. Too bad the I didn't take the time to listen to what they were saying, to objectively weigh their argument.

Tom, somewhere in another BB forum can you (if you are willing) give a recounting of your trip to China?

Or maybe you have it at another URL?

Let us know?

Thanks
HankD

 

[asterisktom]

Tom, somewhere in another BB forum can you (if you are willing) give a recounting of your trip to China?

Or maybe you have it at another URL?

Let us know?

Thanks
HankD

Hank, I don't have one place where I have written about my time in China, but I do have a link to many pictures from there. Two in particular might be of interest. My best of China series:
www.flickr.com/photos/asterisktom/sets/72157629254045523/

and my Teaching in China set:
www.flickr.com/photos/asterisktom/sets/72157629254045523/

Unfortunately, Flickr has revamped their interface where it is much harder to find what I want there.

Also I have this Youtube video where my college students gave me a very touching and heartfelt gift - a song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1UYB6M17lU

I have had a number of witnessing opportunities. Some Chinese are quite open to the Gospel. A lot of them, however, are so dazzled by the still-new pageant of gadgetry, entertainment and relative prosperity that they don't feel the need for the Bible message.

I am quite willing to cross-post this to another forum here, lest it distract from this current thread. Which forum is most appropriate?

 

[HankD]

Hank, I don't have one place where I have written about my time in China, but I do have a link to many pictures from there. Two in particular might be of interest. My best of China series:
www.flickr.com/photos/asterisktom/sets/72157629254045523/

and my Teaching in China set:
www.flickr.com/photos/asterisktom/sets/72157629254045523/

Unfortunately, Flickr has revamped their interface where it is much harder to find what I want there.

Also I have this Youtube video where my college students gave me a very touching and heartfelt gift - a song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1UYB6M17lU

I have had a number of witnessing opportunities. Some Chinese are quite open to the Gospel. A lot of them, however, are so dazzled by the still-new pageant of gadgetry, entertainment and relative prosperity that they don't feel the need for the Bible message.

I am quite willing to cross-post this to another forum here, lest it distract from this current thread. Which forum is most appropriate?

Probably Missions, witnessing, etc, but the General Baptist Forum might be better because I suspect a larger audience.

In any event we can check out the URL's you posted.

Thanks Tom.
HankD

 

[HankD]

Tom,

Lots of great pictures - well its not your fault about the dogs meat for sale, its a cultural thing I guess.

Also, I was surprised to see young Chinese people with English/American culture tee-shirts.

Hmm, also the Bible open to the Book of Esther, I guess you can publicly carry a Bible around in China.

And was that a Buddha statue?

Nice ending with the plane ready for boarding.

HankD

 

[asterisktom]

Tom,

Lots of great pictures - well its not your fault about the dogs meat for sale, its a cultural thing I guess.

Also, I was surprised to see young Chinese people with English/American culture tee-shirts.

Hmm, also the Bible open to the Book of Esther, I guess you can publicly carry a Bible around in China.

And was that a Buddha statue?

Nice ending with the plane ready for boarding.

HankD

Hi Hank,

I think I will take your suggestion and start a new thread in the Baptist forum:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2004659#post2004659

 

[Yeshua1]

I have heard lately about a doctrine that the Rapture happend in AD 70.

Where did this come from.
I just dont get it.

Pretierist view, that denies thebodily resurrection of jesus and the saints, as we will have a spiritual resurrection, and they hold to new heavens/new earth as NOT the millinium, or final state, but a spiritual state when God destroyed isreal and installed new Covenant!