Would somebody please show me the Catholic equivalents of "Trail of Blood," "Rome's Blood Bath" and Dr. Halley's "Church History." (what, no "blood" in that title?!) I want to find all the Catholic websites that are trying to discredit Protestantism with lies and hatred, so I can tell them all what contemptible Catholics they are.
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RCC kills everyone in Europe
- Thread starter MikeS
- Start date
thessalonian
New Member
You mean where we bear false witness (that's commandment you know) against protestants based on our hatred of them and their beliefs? I don't know of any. They really should consider whether bearing false witness is a bit more serious than they take it to be. Good question.
I am sorry that you think that I hate Roman Catholics, because I don’t believe that only 3 to 5 thousand people perished at their hands during the dark ages. As you can see though, there are a great many people who see it otherwise. As a Christian, I do not have the right to hate anyone. I do not hate Roman Catholics, but I do love the truth. Jesus Christ said that he was the truth, the way, and the life. It is the truth that sets us free. Free from deception, and the father of all deception, that is the father of lies, the devil himself.
Someone asked for evidence to back up claims of millions being killed during the dark ages at the hands of the church of Rome. I supplied the only kind of evidence that can be supplied, written history. I do not know the exact numbers of those killed. I don’t believe anyone does. The best I can do is collect all the accounts of written history, and draw my own conclusions from the evidence I have at hand.
This much is sure. Regardless of how many died, the church of Christ was never meant to be in the business of killing at all. Christ came into the world to save the world, not condemn it. The surest sign that the church of Rome is not the church of Christ, is her relations with the kings of the earth, and her dependence upon their power to support her. She has made herself a part of this world, and it’s kingdoms, instead of being the representative of God’s kingdom in the earth. She relies upon the power of the state, over the power of the Holy Spirit of God. If she had not had illicit relations with the kings of the earth, she would not have ever killed anyone.
It is for this reason, that she is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS. For she is that Christian institution which first committed fornication with the kings of the earth, resulting in the persecution of those who would not bow to her. All those other Christian churches who either already have, or will do the same, are her daughters. Again, I do not say these things out of hate, but rather to reveal the truth. Which is for, not against any of us. These things we must all decide for ourselves. I will expound on the above thoughts in the nest post.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Someone asked for evidence to back up claims of millions being killed during the dark ages at the hands of the church of Rome. I supplied the only kind of evidence that can be supplied, written history. I do not know the exact numbers of those killed. I don’t believe anyone does. The best I can do is collect all the accounts of written history, and draw my own conclusions from the evidence I have at hand.
This much is sure. Regardless of how many died, the church of Christ was never meant to be in the business of killing at all. Christ came into the world to save the world, not condemn it. The surest sign that the church of Rome is not the church of Christ, is her relations with the kings of the earth, and her dependence upon their power to support her. She has made herself a part of this world, and it’s kingdoms, instead of being the representative of God’s kingdom in the earth. She relies upon the power of the state, over the power of the Holy Spirit of God. If she had not had illicit relations with the kings of the earth, she would not have ever killed anyone.
It is for this reason, that she is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS. For she is that Christian institution which first committed fornication with the kings of the earth, resulting in the persecution of those who would not bow to her. All those other Christian churches who either already have, or will do the same, are her daughters. Again, I do not say these things out of hate, but rather to reveal the truth. Which is for, not against any of us. These things we must all decide for ourselves. I will expound on the above thoughts in the nest post.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Jer 3:8-9 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Ezek 16:14-15 14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
Ezek 16:28-29 28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.
Hosea 4:15 15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.
During the old covenant, the Lord referred to the nation of Israel as a harlot when she had illicit relationships with her surrounding nations, and their gods. So also, in the new covenant, those who called themselves Christians, but had illicit relationships with the kings of the earth, and their gods are playing the harlot. The Church of Rome is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, because she was the first " Christian " institution to apostatize and have relations with the kings of the earth, mixing pagan practices and worship with Christianity. This policy she also continues today, thus she is ever present at the UN and has ambassadors from virtually every nation tending to her.
Rev 17:1-2 1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:5 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
63. Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new
paganism, and the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and
universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words,
"First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the
Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the
new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism - the apostate,
paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for
instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of
Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and
Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops,
were all realized and accomplished - a new, imperial, and universal
religion was created.
64. Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs
in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman
Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern
despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new
financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally,
a new religion." - Milman.
65. The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new
religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( THE GREAT EMPIRES OF PROPHECY A. T. Jones )
Constantine brought Sun worshippers, and Christians together, forming a new religion of the two. Although he claimed to become a Christian, he did so for the above purpose, and never claimed to abandon the worship of the sun. The result being the formation of the Church of Rome, and the exaltation of the day of the Sun as the Christian Sabbath.
"In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an
edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday.
Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on
"the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather
forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of
Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title,
Dies Solis, familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to
the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians." -
Schaff.
"The same tenacious adherence to the ancient god of light has left its
trace, even to our own time, on one of the most sacred and universal of
Christian institutions. The retention of the old pagan name of "Dies Solis,'
or 'Sunday,' for the weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to
the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the
week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and
Christian alike, as the 'venerable day of the sun.'... It was his mode of
harmonizing the discordant religions of the empire under one common
institution." - Stanley.
Accordingly, now "his coins bore on the one side the letters of the name of
Christ, on the other the figure of the sun-god, and the inscription, 'Sol
invictus' (the unconquerable sun), as if he could not bear to relinquish the
patronage of the bright luminary which represented to him, as to Augustus
and to Julian, his own guardian deity." - Stanley.
The Church of Rome is a political organization. She is that apostate form of Christianity which first forsook the power of the Holy Spirit, in favor of the power of the state, for the furtherance of her goals. These things she accomplished by having adulterous relations with the kings of the earth. She is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, and as such, of course she has children. Those Protestant denominations which broke away from her, but also leaned on the power of the state to enforce their dogmas, were acting the part of her daughters. It was not until the establishment of the USA, that many Protestant denominations fully broke away from the Romish idea of combining church and state.
"In order to avoid wars and persecutions over religion, the founders of the United States tried a bold experiment. They allowed FREEDOM OF RELIGION by separating church from state, so that one could be a full member of civil society without having to belong to a particular church. Colonies that had established churches gradually ended that practice so that churches were no longer built by the state, nor were their ministers paid by the state. Churches began to rely on the voluntary contributions of their members, which resulted in more vigorous churches." (Groliers)
Any Christian denomination that wants to use the power of the state to enforce or further it's goals, is a daughter of Babylon, the Mother of Harlots. She is the originator of this mind set. Rome, in it's pagan, and papal form, is the fourth metal, and beast of the book of Daniel chapters four,and seven. As the scriptures point out, she will be with us until Christ returns, destroying the kingdoms of this earth and setting up His literal and everlasting kingdom in this world.
Dan 2:33-35 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Rome is rising again, and many Protestant churches are returning to their Mother. These things must happen before Christ returns. The second beast of Revelation will be formed when the worlds religions, headed by the Church of Rome, once again unite with the state on a worldwide basis and use the state to enforce their dogma. This dogma will be the forced worship spoken of in the book of Rev. Chap. thirteen. There is much to say regarding this matter, perhaps more later. I leave you with the following quote.
When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome. Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art. When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind. May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from theri beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Ezek 16:14-15 14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
Ezek 16:28-29 28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.
Hosea 4:15 15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.
During the old covenant, the Lord referred to the nation of Israel as a harlot when she had illicit relationships with her surrounding nations, and their gods. So also, in the new covenant, those who called themselves Christians, but had illicit relationships with the kings of the earth, and their gods are playing the harlot. The Church of Rome is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, because she was the first " Christian " institution to apostatize and have relations with the kings of the earth, mixing pagan practices and worship with Christianity. This policy she also continues today, thus she is ever present at the UN and has ambassadors from virtually every nation tending to her.
Rev 17:1-2 1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:5 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
63. Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new
paganism, and the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and
universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words,
"First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the
Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the
new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism - the apostate,
paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for
instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of
Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and
Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops,
were all realized and accomplished - a new, imperial, and universal
religion was created.
64. Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs
in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman
Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern
despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new
financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally,
a new religion." - Milman.
65. The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new
religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( THE GREAT EMPIRES OF PROPHECY A. T. Jones )
Constantine brought Sun worshippers, and Christians together, forming a new religion of the two. Although he claimed to become a Christian, he did so for the above purpose, and never claimed to abandon the worship of the sun. The result being the formation of the Church of Rome, and the exaltation of the day of the Sun as the Christian Sabbath.
"In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an
edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday.
Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on
"the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather
forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of
Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title,
Dies Solis, familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to
the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians." -
Schaff.
"The same tenacious adherence to the ancient god of light has left its
trace, even to our own time, on one of the most sacred and universal of
Christian institutions. The retention of the old pagan name of "Dies Solis,'
or 'Sunday,' for the weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to
the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the
week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and
Christian alike, as the 'venerable day of the sun.'... It was his mode of
harmonizing the discordant religions of the empire under one common
institution." - Stanley.
Accordingly, now "his coins bore on the one side the letters of the name of
Christ, on the other the figure of the sun-god, and the inscription, 'Sol
invictus' (the unconquerable sun), as if he could not bear to relinquish the
patronage of the bright luminary which represented to him, as to Augustus
and to Julian, his own guardian deity." - Stanley.
The Church of Rome is a political organization. She is that apostate form of Christianity which first forsook the power of the Holy Spirit, in favor of the power of the state, for the furtherance of her goals. These things she accomplished by having adulterous relations with the kings of the earth. She is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, and as such, of course she has children. Those Protestant denominations which broke away from her, but also leaned on the power of the state to enforce their dogmas, were acting the part of her daughters. It was not until the establishment of the USA, that many Protestant denominations fully broke away from the Romish idea of combining church and state.
"In order to avoid wars and persecutions over religion, the founders of the United States tried a bold experiment. They allowed FREEDOM OF RELIGION by separating church from state, so that one could be a full member of civil society without having to belong to a particular church. Colonies that had established churches gradually ended that practice so that churches were no longer built by the state, nor were their ministers paid by the state. Churches began to rely on the voluntary contributions of their members, which resulted in more vigorous churches." (Groliers)
Any Christian denomination that wants to use the power of the state to enforce or further it's goals, is a daughter of Babylon, the Mother of Harlots. She is the originator of this mind set. Rome, in it's pagan, and papal form, is the fourth metal, and beast of the book of Daniel chapters four,and seven. As the scriptures point out, she will be with us until Christ returns, destroying the kingdoms of this earth and setting up His literal and everlasting kingdom in this world.
Dan 2:33-35 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Rome is rising again, and many Protestant churches are returning to their Mother. These things must happen before Christ returns. The second beast of Revelation will be formed when the worlds religions, headed by the Church of Rome, once again unite with the state on a worldwide basis and use the state to enforce their dogma. This dogma will be the forced worship spoken of in the book of Rev. Chap. thirteen. There is much to say regarding this matter, perhaps more later. I leave you with the following quote.
When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome. Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art. When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind. May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from theri beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
thessalonian
New Member
Keith,
You bear false witness. Pure and simple. Be convicted.
You bear false witness. Pure and simple. Be convicted.
Hey Mike.
Here are some claims of the Catholic church bearing false witness.
Catholic Encyclopaedia, The.
J. McCabe, Rationalists Encyclopaedia
A very pretentious work in fifteen large and sumptuous volumes (1907-12), which was financed by the wealthy Catholics of the United States. In the Introduction it promises "the whole truth without prejudice" and says that in ascertaining the truth "the most recent and acknowledged scientific methods are employed." In reality it often employs the worst tricks and vices of Catholic propaganda, so that it can safely be consulted only for illustrations of these and for details of undisputed Catholic teaching, ritual, and administration. In Biblical matters - one need not read farther than "Adam" - it is almost always Fundamentalist; in biography (of saints, Popes, etc.) it is childishly credulous; in history, particularly the history of the Papacy and of the crimes and vices of the Middle Ages, it is monstrously untruthful; in quoting authorities it is gravely deceitful; and in scientific articles (evolution, etc.) it is little above the level of the American Baptists. An exposure of its historical methods will be found in McCabe's Popes and their Church (4th ed., 1904, pp. 97-109), but specimens occur in many articles of this work. Another feature of interest is that the writers are almost entirely priests or professional propagandists, which reveals the extraordinary poverty of the Church in distinguished lay scholars. Hilaire Belloc is entrusted with only one short article ("Land Tenure"), and that on a "safe" subject. The peculiarities of Catholic Truth exhibited in the work are so singular that, in order to confuse the non-Catholic who might compare the articles with those of ordinary encyclopaedias, the American and English Catholics went on to secure an important influence in the writing of the latest edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica and the new Encyclopaedia Americana. [See Encyclopaedias.]
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Here are some claims of the Catholic church bearing false witness.
Catholic Encyclopaedia, The.
J. McCabe, Rationalists Encyclopaedia
A very pretentious work in fifteen large and sumptuous volumes (1907-12), which was financed by the wealthy Catholics of the United States. In the Introduction it promises "the whole truth without prejudice" and says that in ascertaining the truth "the most recent and acknowledged scientific methods are employed." In reality it often employs the worst tricks and vices of Catholic propaganda, so that it can safely be consulted only for illustrations of these and for details of undisputed Catholic teaching, ritual, and administration. In Biblical matters - one need not read farther than "Adam" - it is almost always Fundamentalist; in biography (of saints, Popes, etc.) it is childishly credulous; in history, particularly the history of the Papacy and of the crimes and vices of the Middle Ages, it is monstrously untruthful; in quoting authorities it is gravely deceitful; and in scientific articles (evolution, etc.) it is little above the level of the American Baptists. An exposure of its historical methods will be found in McCabe's Popes and their Church (4th ed., 1904, pp. 97-109), but specimens occur in many articles of this work. Another feature of interest is that the writers are almost entirely priests or professional propagandists, which reveals the extraordinary poverty of the Church in distinguished lay scholars. Hilaire Belloc is entrusted with only one short article ("Land Tenure"), and that on a "safe" subject. The peculiarities of Catholic Truth exhibited in the work are so singular that, in order to confuse the non-Catholic who might compare the articles with those of ordinary encyclopaedias, the American and English Catholics went on to secure an important influence in the writing of the latest edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica and the new Encyclopaedia Americana. [See Encyclopaedias.]
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Here is some more.
History, The falsification of.
J. McCabe, Rationalists Encyclopaedia
It will be gathered from a large number of articles in this Encyclopedia that the great gain of the adoption of scientific methods in modern history and of extensive discoveries in archaeology is offset by a lamentable falsification owing to concessions to religious writers or sectarian influence. It has gravely increased the difficulty of the Rationalist education of the public that, just when science has generally succeeded in silencing "the drum ecclesiastic" (in Huxley's phrase), history is increasingly listening to it. Recent issues of the leading encyclopedias have permitted very serious alterations of historical articles or invited clerical writers to contribute articles on subjects on which they could not be expected to be impartial or accurately informed. Serious attempts have been made even to impose the new spirit of accommodation upon teachers of history in universities, colleges, and the national schools. Poynter tells of an amazing plot of this nature in his Roman Catholics and School History Books (1930). However one may analyse the motives or the influences, conscious or subconscious, the evil begins with a number of professors or writers of history of some distinction, especially in the United States. [See, for example, the articles Arabs; Christianity; Dark Age; Democracy; Middle Age; Monasticism; Papacy; Philanthropy; Reformation; Rome; Thirteenth Century; and subsidiary articles mentioned in them.] The intellectual and moral status of pre-Christian civilizations is vindicated against ancient calumnies by virtually all modern authorities; yet in the case of Rome, while Protestant writers like Dr. E. Reich and Sir S. Dill have been generous in stating the truth, a number of recent historical writers, men who show no command of classical literature and the inscriptions, have used language in conformity with the old prejudices. This encourages theological writers to repeat their discredited claims that the Gospels brought a new and higher type of religion and ethic into the contemporary Roman world; that the Christians generally exhibited a superior type of character which attracted thoughtful Greeks and Romans; and that the acceptance - in reality enforcement - of the Christian religion was followed by a social and moral improvement. But greater evil is done by a falsification of the social history of the Christian, or at least the Catholic, era. In this respect Catholics have had a remarkable success in adulterating history. On the plea that the Protestant and Rationalist historians of the last century were moved by a prejudice against Catholicism, or that the development of psychology and of economic and social science gives the historian a new equipment for the study of earlier peoples, some historians - this does not apply to the Cambridge Mediaeval History - profess to give a new and sounder estimate of the period of solid Church influence. The title given to the first half, the Dark Age, is, largely on the quite false ground that it means the whole of the Middle Ages, declared to be unjust, and the second part, the Renaissance in the broader sense, is described more or less in harmony with the claims of Catholic writers. The historians in question betray that they have no command, as the historians of the last century had, of medieval literature. They ignore completely the immense literature which tells the licence and coarseness of life of the clergy, monks - all that they say of monasticism is to give a description of the ideal of a Benedictine abbey or describe Francis of Assisi - and people of all classes; and they profess that it is a mark of liberality to follow Catholic writers on the work of Gregory VII or Innocent III, the Massacre of the Albigensians and the Hussites, the Inquisition and the Reformation (See Coulter's Sectarian History, 1937). Admirable as it is to trace neglected social, political, and economic factors in this stretch of history, the deliberate suppression of its many evil features falsifies history and the sociological valuation of institutions. The same tendency is seen in the deliberate depreciation of the Arab-Persian civilization, which conceals the real source of the European Renaissance and confirms the preposterous claim that the Roman Church inspired it. Even in the modern period we find the same grave departure from the canons of history in the undiscriminating condemnation of the French Revolution, the suppression of the terrible injustices of French life which led to it, and especially the concealment of what Lord Acton called the savagery of the Roman Church in its fight against progress from the fall of Napoleon to 1870 (in Spain and Russia until recently). This falsification of history, at least by the suppression of facts and of relevant but distasteful contemporary documents, is one of the most unfortunate features of modern culture. The scores of articles in this Encyclopaedia in which it is exposed show that a new and thorough history of the Christian era is urgently needed.
History, The falsification of.
J. McCabe, Rationalists Encyclopaedia
It will be gathered from a large number of articles in this Encyclopedia that the great gain of the adoption of scientific methods in modern history and of extensive discoveries in archaeology is offset by a lamentable falsification owing to concessions to religious writers or sectarian influence. It has gravely increased the difficulty of the Rationalist education of the public that, just when science has generally succeeded in silencing "the drum ecclesiastic" (in Huxley's phrase), history is increasingly listening to it. Recent issues of the leading encyclopedias have permitted very serious alterations of historical articles or invited clerical writers to contribute articles on subjects on which they could not be expected to be impartial or accurately informed. Serious attempts have been made even to impose the new spirit of accommodation upon teachers of history in universities, colleges, and the national schools. Poynter tells of an amazing plot of this nature in his Roman Catholics and School History Books (1930). However one may analyse the motives or the influences, conscious or subconscious, the evil begins with a number of professors or writers of history of some distinction, especially in the United States. [See, for example, the articles Arabs; Christianity; Dark Age; Democracy; Middle Age; Monasticism; Papacy; Philanthropy; Reformation; Rome; Thirteenth Century; and subsidiary articles mentioned in them.] The intellectual and moral status of pre-Christian civilizations is vindicated against ancient calumnies by virtually all modern authorities; yet in the case of Rome, while Protestant writers like Dr. E. Reich and Sir S. Dill have been generous in stating the truth, a number of recent historical writers, men who show no command of classical literature and the inscriptions, have used language in conformity with the old prejudices. This encourages theological writers to repeat their discredited claims that the Gospels brought a new and higher type of religion and ethic into the contemporary Roman world; that the Christians generally exhibited a superior type of character which attracted thoughtful Greeks and Romans; and that the acceptance - in reality enforcement - of the Christian religion was followed by a social and moral improvement. But greater evil is done by a falsification of the social history of the Christian, or at least the Catholic, era. In this respect Catholics have had a remarkable success in adulterating history. On the plea that the Protestant and Rationalist historians of the last century were moved by a prejudice against Catholicism, or that the development of psychology and of economic and social science gives the historian a new equipment for the study of earlier peoples, some historians - this does not apply to the Cambridge Mediaeval History - profess to give a new and sounder estimate of the period of solid Church influence. The title given to the first half, the Dark Age, is, largely on the quite false ground that it means the whole of the Middle Ages, declared to be unjust, and the second part, the Renaissance in the broader sense, is described more or less in harmony with the claims of Catholic writers. The historians in question betray that they have no command, as the historians of the last century had, of medieval literature. They ignore completely the immense literature which tells the licence and coarseness of life of the clergy, monks - all that they say of monasticism is to give a description of the ideal of a Benedictine abbey or describe Francis of Assisi - and people of all classes; and they profess that it is a mark of liberality to follow Catholic writers on the work of Gregory VII or Innocent III, the Massacre of the Albigensians and the Hussites, the Inquisition and the Reformation (See Coulter's Sectarian History, 1937). Admirable as it is to trace neglected social, political, and economic factors in this stretch of history, the deliberate suppression of its many evil features falsifies history and the sociological valuation of institutions. The same tendency is seen in the deliberate depreciation of the Arab-Persian civilization, which conceals the real source of the European Renaissance and confirms the preposterous claim that the Roman Church inspired it. Even in the modern period we find the same grave departure from the canons of history in the undiscriminating condemnation of the French Revolution, the suppression of the terrible injustices of French life which led to it, and especially the concealment of what Lord Acton called the savagery of the Roman Church in its fight against progress from the fall of Napoleon to 1870 (in Spain and Russia until recently). This falsification of history, at least by the suppression of facts and of relevant but distasteful contemporary documents, is one of the most unfortunate features of modern culture. The scores of articles in this Encyclopaedia in which it is exposed show that a new and thorough history of the Christian era is urgently needed.
This Joseph Mccabe, has also written a book called The Lies and Fallacies of the Encyclopedia Britanica. It's main thrust is about how the church of Rome has re-written history in many Encyclopedias to remove all objectionable material in regards to the Catholic faith.
If you are interested in more details, just put the title of the book into your search engine, and you can find it online to read for yourself.
By for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
If you are interested in more details, just put the title of the book into your search engine, and you can find it online to read for yourself.
By for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
trying2understand
New Member
Keith, just for fun, how about you finding within the Catholic Encyclopedia a couple of examples of "monstorous" untruth.
Ray Berrian
New Member
Keith,
Thanks for taking time for the long explanation. It was worthy of our reading. It was not the prejudices of one man and I noticed your many references from different author/writers.
I think it was thessalonian who said, 'You bear false witness. Pure and simple. Be convicted.'
It is sad that many do not open up their eyes to the facts. These apostates have imbred so long that they believe their myths.
I agree with you and knew some things of what you wrote. I add by saying, 'You have told the truth, pure and simple. Our prayer is that some will 'Come out of . . . 'the aging, prostitute, as warned by our Lord through the writing of the Apostle John in Revelation 18:4.
Thanks for taking time for the long explanation. It was worthy of our reading. It was not the prejudices of one man and I noticed your many references from different author/writers.
I think it was thessalonian who said, 'You bear false witness. Pure and simple. Be convicted.'
It is sad that many do not open up their eyes to the facts. These apostates have imbred so long that they believe their myths.
I agree with you and knew some things of what you wrote. I add by saying, 'You have told the truth, pure and simple. Our prayer is that some will 'Come out of . . . 'the aging, prostitute, as warned by our Lord through the writing of the Apostle John in Revelation 18:4.
So now you're quoting Joseph McCabe, a militant "angry atheist" and "Freethinker"???
Here's a quote from a review of a book about McCabe:
"...he has often been associated with the awful anti-Catholic bigotry which emanated from Protesant writers of the time. But the Protestants themselves were not too sure about McCabe, and were very reluctant to cite an atheist in their complaints about the Catholic Church."
from www.atheism.about.com
Since you're such a diligent reader, I look forward to discussing the Newman "Lectures on the Present Position of Catholics in England" with you, in particular the assertion that "The substance, the force, the edge of their [anti-Catholic Protestants] Tradition is slander."
Ray Berrian
New Member
It seems totally incongruent that Protestants could be the 'woman of Revelation chapter seventeen'; we have only been around for 486 years. But I will let you figure out which denomination has been around since a few centuries after the Apostolate was on this earth.
I don't know officially when this denomination came into being but surely not since the time of the apostles. Let's say that they got under way with their political and quasi-spiritual organization in the fourth century. This would mean that they have been on this planet for 1703 years.
Chances are that God was speaking to this of oldest denominations. The Protestant churches are only the 'Johnny come lately' churches. I think we are off the hook on this one.
Keith, you did tell us the truth through all your writing on that post.
I don't know officially when this denomination came into being but surely not since the time of the apostles. Let's say that they got under way with their political and quasi-spiritual organization in the fourth century. This would mean that they have been on this planet for 1703 years.
Chances are that God was speaking to this of oldest denominations. The Protestant churches are only the 'Johnny come lately' churches. I think we are off the hook on this one.
Keith, you did tell us the truth through all your writing on that post.
thessalonian
New Member
Ray:
"These apostates have imbred so long that they believe their myths. "
God bless you.
"These apostates have imbred so long that they believe their myths. "
God bless you.
REMARKS UPON THE
ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY OF
THE ANCIENT CHURCHES OF
THE ALBIGENSES
by Peter Allix D.D
It is worth our taking notice, first, that Pope Innocent III. to encourage the lords and people to the holy war, granted a plenary remission of all their sins to all those who took up the badge of the cross, vouchsating also the protection of the holy see to their persons and goods, as may be seen in his Epistles. He absolved the cities that had sworn to the Earl of Toulouse from their oath of allegiance, upon that excellent principle of the Church of Rome, that faith is not to be kept with heretics, because they do not keep theirs with God or the Church. Secondly, that the Earl of Toulouse was not guilty of the murder of Peter de Chasteau Neuf; for we read, that Earl Raymond went to meet King Philip, to obtain of him letters of recommendation from the Pope, that he might be fully acquitted of the murder of the Monk Peter de Chasteau Neuf, whereof they had most unjustly obliged him to confess himself guilty, only because the said murder had been committed in his territories, for which the Legate Milo had imposed upon him a most unjust and unheard of penance. From the court of the King of France he went to Rome, where he received absolution immediately from the hands of Pope Innocent III. This being a case reserved to him, the Pope received him very civilly, presented him with a rich robe and a ring of great value, and granted him plenary remission and absolution from the said murder, declaring that he looked upon him as sufficiently cleared upon that account.
In the year 1209, the army of these crossed soldiers, which consisted of no less than five hundred thousand men, entered Languedoc, and attacked the city of Beziers, being one of the strongest places the Albigenses had, took it by force, and put all they found in it to the sword; so that above sixty thousand persons were killed there, as Mezeray informs us.
The Legate, being enraged at this, with horrible threats and oaths protested, that except all that were in the town did acknowledge their fault, and submit themselves to the Church of Rome, they should all be put to the sword, without any regard had to Catholics, to sex, or age, but that all should be exposed to fire and sword; and immediately commanded the city to be summoned to surrender at discretion: which being refused, he commanded all the warlike engines to play, and to discharge their instruments, and to cast stones, ordering them at the same time to give a general assault, and to scale the city round, so that it was impossible for those within to sustain the shock: for being pressed upon by above an hundred thousand pilgrims, they at last, saith the compiler of the Treasureof Histories, discomfited those within the city, and entering in all at once, killed vast numbers of all sorts, and afterwards putting fire to the city, they burnt it to ashes. When the town was taken, the Priests, Monks, and Clerks came in procession out of the great church of Beziers, called St. Nazari, with the banner, cross, and holy water, bareheaded, clothed in their ecclesiastical vestments, singing Te Deum, in token of their rejoicing for the city’s being taken and purged of the Albigenses. But the pilgrims, who had received an express order from the Legate to kill all, rushed in amongst this procession, cutting off the heads and arms of the Priests, striving who could do most, till they were all cut to pieces.
ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY OF
THE ANCIENT CHURCHES OF
THE ALBIGENSES
by Peter Allix D.D
It is worth our taking notice, first, that Pope Innocent III. to encourage the lords and people to the holy war, granted a plenary remission of all their sins to all those who took up the badge of the cross, vouchsating also the protection of the holy see to their persons and goods, as may be seen in his Epistles. He absolved the cities that had sworn to the Earl of Toulouse from their oath of allegiance, upon that excellent principle of the Church of Rome, that faith is not to be kept with heretics, because they do not keep theirs with God or the Church. Secondly, that the Earl of Toulouse was not guilty of the murder of Peter de Chasteau Neuf; for we read, that Earl Raymond went to meet King Philip, to obtain of him letters of recommendation from the Pope, that he might be fully acquitted of the murder of the Monk Peter de Chasteau Neuf, whereof they had most unjustly obliged him to confess himself guilty, only because the said murder had been committed in his territories, for which the Legate Milo had imposed upon him a most unjust and unheard of penance. From the court of the King of France he went to Rome, where he received absolution immediately from the hands of Pope Innocent III. This being a case reserved to him, the Pope received him very civilly, presented him with a rich robe and a ring of great value, and granted him plenary remission and absolution from the said murder, declaring that he looked upon him as sufficiently cleared upon that account.
In the year 1209, the army of these crossed soldiers, which consisted of no less than five hundred thousand men, entered Languedoc, and attacked the city of Beziers, being one of the strongest places the Albigenses had, took it by force, and put all they found in it to the sword; so that above sixty thousand persons were killed there, as Mezeray informs us.
The Legate, being enraged at this, with horrible threats and oaths protested, that except all that were in the town did acknowledge their fault, and submit themselves to the Church of Rome, they should all be put to the sword, without any regard had to Catholics, to sex, or age, but that all should be exposed to fire and sword; and immediately commanded the city to be summoned to surrender at discretion: which being refused, he commanded all the warlike engines to play, and to discharge their instruments, and to cast stones, ordering them at the same time to give a general assault, and to scale the city round, so that it was impossible for those within to sustain the shock: for being pressed upon by above an hundred thousand pilgrims, they at last, saith the compiler of the Treasureof Histories, discomfited those within the city, and entering in all at once, killed vast numbers of all sorts, and afterwards putting fire to the city, they burnt it to ashes. When the town was taken, the Priests, Monks, and Clerks came in procession out of the great church of Beziers, called St. Nazari, with the banner, cross, and holy water, bareheaded, clothed in their ecclesiastical vestments, singing Te Deum, in token of their rejoicing for the city’s being taken and purged of the Albigenses. But the pilgrims, who had received an express order from the Legate to kill all, rushed in amongst this procession, cutting off the heads and arms of the Priests, striving who could do most, till they were all cut to pieces.
ROMANISM AND THE
REFORMATION
by H. Grattan Guiness
Innocent III claimed also the right to dispense with both civil and canon law when he pleased, and to decide cases by the plenitude of his own inherent power. He dispensed also with the obligation of promises made on oaths, undermining thus the force of contracts and treaties. The military power of the Papacy dates also from this man, as the crusades had left him in possession of an army. Systematic persecution of so-called heretics began also in this pontificate. The corruptions, cruelties, and assumptions of the Papacy had become so intolerable, that protests were making themselves heard in many quarters. It was felt these must be silenced at any cost, and a wholesale slaughter of heretics was commenced with a view to their extermination. The Inquisition was founded, the Albigenses and Waldenses were murderously persecuted, and superstition and tyranny were at their height. From this century Papal persecution of the witnesses for the truth never ceased until the final establishment of Protestantism at the end of the seventeenth century.
Under these bloody maxims those persecutions were carried on, from the eleventh and twelfth centuries almost to the present day, which stand out on the page of history. After a signal of open martyrdom had been given in the canons of Orleans, there followed the extirpation of the Albigenses under the form of a crusade, the establishment of the Inquisition, the cruel attempts to extinguish the Waldenses, the martyrdom of the Lollards, the cruel wars to exterminate the Bohemians, the burning of Huss and Jerome, and multitudes of other confessors, before the Reformation; and afterwards the ferocious cruelties practiced in the Netherlands, the martyrdom of Queen Mary’s reign, the extinction, by fire and sword, of the Reformation in Spain and Italy, by fraud and open persecution in Poland, the massacre of Bartholemew, the persecutions of the Huguenots by the League, the extirpation of the Vaudois, and all the cruelties and perjuries connected with the revocation of the Edict of Nantes. These are the more open and conspicuous facts which explain the prophecy, besides the slow and secret murders of the holy tribunal of the Inquisition” (Birks: “First Two Visions of Daniel,” pp. 248,249).
So Sismondi, the historian writes:
To maintain unity of belief the Church had recourse to the expedient of burning all those who separated themselves from her; but although for two hundred years the fires were never quenched, still every day saw Romanists abjuring the faith of their fathers and embracing the religion which often guided them to the stake. In vain Gregory IX., in A.D. 1231, put to death every heretic whom he found concealed in Rome. His own letters show that the heretics only increased in numbers.
It must never be forgotten that all Rome’s ordinances against heresy, all its
statutes of persecution, remain in its canon law unabrogated, unchanged,
and - as the Papacy is infallible in its own esteem - unchangeable, “irreformable.” Its present disuse of persecution practically is the result of the heavy judgments which have, since the Reformation, and especially since the French Revolution, overtaken it. It has now no army and no Inquisition of its own, nor is any single kingdom in Europe willing any longer to act as its executioner. It lacks the power - it utterly lacks the power - to persecute directly or indirectly. It can only stir up sedition and revolt in Protestant countries, and thus endeavor to injure and weaken Protestant powers, as it is doing today in Ireland and in the United States. It is too weak politically to defy modern society by reintroducing mediaeval tortures, massacres, religious crusades, and the auto da fe. But it is as willing as ever, and awaits the opportunity only. As a drunkard may
retain his vicious appetite when he has no longer the means of gratifying it,
so Rome - long drunken with the blood of saints -is restrained from further maddening and debasing draughts of her dreadful beverage by nothing but inability to procure them. The Papacy, by justifying as righteous all the horrible persecutions of the past, attests her readiness to renew them whenever the opportunity may serve.
As I shall have to recur to this subject when treating of St. John’s foreview of Romanism, I will add nothing further on this point. I have said enough to show, that this sixth mark of the little horn attaches most distinctly to the Papacy, and indicates it alone among all the powers that have ever held sway on the Roman earth. It has martyred by millions the saints of God, the best and holiest of men. Its persecuting edicts range over the entire period of its existence; the present pope has endorsed them by his approval of the syllabus of Pius IX., and he threw over them the mantle of infallibility.
REFORMATION
by H. Grattan Guiness
Innocent III claimed also the right to dispense with both civil and canon law when he pleased, and to decide cases by the plenitude of his own inherent power. He dispensed also with the obligation of promises made on oaths, undermining thus the force of contracts and treaties. The military power of the Papacy dates also from this man, as the crusades had left him in possession of an army. Systematic persecution of so-called heretics began also in this pontificate. The corruptions, cruelties, and assumptions of the Papacy had become so intolerable, that protests were making themselves heard in many quarters. It was felt these must be silenced at any cost, and a wholesale slaughter of heretics was commenced with a view to their extermination. The Inquisition was founded, the Albigenses and Waldenses were murderously persecuted, and superstition and tyranny were at their height. From this century Papal persecution of the witnesses for the truth never ceased until the final establishment of Protestantism at the end of the seventeenth century.
Under these bloody maxims those persecutions were carried on, from the eleventh and twelfth centuries almost to the present day, which stand out on the page of history. After a signal of open martyrdom had been given in the canons of Orleans, there followed the extirpation of the Albigenses under the form of a crusade, the establishment of the Inquisition, the cruel attempts to extinguish the Waldenses, the martyrdom of the Lollards, the cruel wars to exterminate the Bohemians, the burning of Huss and Jerome, and multitudes of other confessors, before the Reformation; and afterwards the ferocious cruelties practiced in the Netherlands, the martyrdom of Queen Mary’s reign, the extinction, by fire and sword, of the Reformation in Spain and Italy, by fraud and open persecution in Poland, the massacre of Bartholemew, the persecutions of the Huguenots by the League, the extirpation of the Vaudois, and all the cruelties and perjuries connected with the revocation of the Edict of Nantes. These are the more open and conspicuous facts which explain the prophecy, besides the slow and secret murders of the holy tribunal of the Inquisition” (Birks: “First Two Visions of Daniel,” pp. 248,249).
So Sismondi, the historian writes:
To maintain unity of belief the Church had recourse to the expedient of burning all those who separated themselves from her; but although for two hundred years the fires were never quenched, still every day saw Romanists abjuring the faith of their fathers and embracing the religion which often guided them to the stake. In vain Gregory IX., in A.D. 1231, put to death every heretic whom he found concealed in Rome. His own letters show that the heretics only increased in numbers.
It must never be forgotten that all Rome’s ordinances against heresy, all its
statutes of persecution, remain in its canon law unabrogated, unchanged,
and - as the Papacy is infallible in its own esteem - unchangeable, “irreformable.” Its present disuse of persecution practically is the result of the heavy judgments which have, since the Reformation, and especially since the French Revolution, overtaken it. It has now no army and no Inquisition of its own, nor is any single kingdom in Europe willing any longer to act as its executioner. It lacks the power - it utterly lacks the power - to persecute directly or indirectly. It can only stir up sedition and revolt in Protestant countries, and thus endeavor to injure and weaken Protestant powers, as it is doing today in Ireland and in the United States. It is too weak politically to defy modern society by reintroducing mediaeval tortures, massacres, religious crusades, and the auto da fe. But it is as willing as ever, and awaits the opportunity only. As a drunkard may
retain his vicious appetite when he has no longer the means of gratifying it,
so Rome - long drunken with the blood of saints -is restrained from further maddening and debasing draughts of her dreadful beverage by nothing but inability to procure them. The Papacy, by justifying as righteous all the horrible persecutions of the past, attests her readiness to renew them whenever the opportunity may serve.
As I shall have to recur to this subject when treating of St. John’s foreview of Romanism, I will add nothing further on this point. I have said enough to show, that this sixth mark of the little horn attaches most distinctly to the Papacy, and indicates it alone among all the powers that have ever held sway on the Roman earth. It has martyred by millions the saints of God, the best and holiest of men. Its persecuting edicts range over the entire period of its existence; the present pope has endorsed them by his approval of the syllabus of Pius IX., and he threw over them the mantle of infallibility.
thessalonian
New Member
from:http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01267e.htm
"Properly speaking, Albigensianism was not a Christian heresy but an extra-Christian religion (they were baptists
). Ecclesiastical authority, after persuasion had failed, adopted a course of severe repression, which led at times to regrettable excess. Simon of Montfort intended well at first, but later used the pretext of religion to usurp the territory of the Counts of Toulouse. The death penalty was, indeed, inflicted too freely on the Albigenses, but it must be remembered that THE PENAL CODE OF THE TIME WAS CONSIDERABLY MORE RIGOROUS than ours, and the excesses were sometimes provoked. Raymond VI and his successor, Raymond VII, were, when in distress, ever ready to promise, but never to earnestly amend. Pope Innocent III was justified in saying that the Albigenses were "worse than the Saracens"; and still HE COUNSELED MODERATION AND DISAPPROVED OF THE SELFISH POLICY ADOPTED BY SIMON OF MONFORT. What the Church combated was principles that led directly not only to the ruin of Christianity, but to the very extinction of the human race. "
Wonder how Kormo feels about the KKK. They are rather recent murders and rapists. Many of whom were and are Baptists, even a pastor or two has dawned the white robes.
"Properly speaking, Albigensianism was not a Christian heresy but an extra-Christian religion (they were baptists
Wonder how Kormo feels about the KKK. They are rather recent murders and rapists. Many of whom were and are Baptists, even a pastor or two has dawned the white robes.
Never heard of the distinguished gentleman before, but I Google'd him and this is from the very first site that came up:
DR. H. GRATTAN GUINESS (English)
a part medical, part missionary, wholly illogical perverter of facts. The plunges made by this eccentric individual into the depths of human credulity would certainly receive no attention in this place but for the strange circumstance that some people have actually so far believed their intelligence as to accept them without investigation.
True or false, I don't know, but it was just too good to ignore!
Oh, and lest I forget:
It is by wholesale, retail, systematic, unscrupulous lying, for I can use no gentler term, that the many rivulets are made to flow for the feeding the great Protestant Tradition,—the Tradition of the Court, the Tradition of the Law, the Tradition of the Legislature, the Tradition of the Establishment, the Tradition of Literature, the Tradition of Domestic Circles, the Tradition of the Populace.
John Henry Cardinal Newman,
"Lectures on the Present Position of Catholics in England"
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
· Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
· Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
· Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
The Albigensians (Cathars) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Number of victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbors and friends) estimated between 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
· Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
· Subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
· After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
· Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
· Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (Although some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution). Minimally a hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
· Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada, a former Dominican friar, allegedly was responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
· John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
· Michael Sattler, leader of a baptist community, was burned at the stake in Rottenburg, Germany, May 20, 1527. Several days later his wife and other followers were also executed. [KM]
· University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
References
[DA]
K.Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962.
[DO]
K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.
[EC]
P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.
[EJ]
S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.
[HA]
Hunter, M., Wootton, D., Atheism from the Reformation to the Enlightenment, Oxford 1992.
[KM]
Schröder-Kappus, E., Wagner, W., Michael Sattler. Ein Märtyrer in Rottenburg, Tübingen, TVT Media 1992.
[LI]
H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961.
[MM]
M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People.
[MV]
A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992.
[NC]
J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992.
[S2]
Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00.
[SH]
D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992.
[SP]
German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996.
[TA]
A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676.
[TG]
F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980.
[WW]
H.Wollschläger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zürich 1973.
· Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
· Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
The Albigensians (Cathars) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Number of victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbors and friends) estimated between 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
· Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
· Subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
· After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
· Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
· Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (Although some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution). Minimally a hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
· Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada, a former Dominican friar, allegedly was responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
· John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
· Michael Sattler, leader of a baptist community, was burned at the stake in Rottenburg, Germany, May 20, 1527. Several days later his wife and other followers were also executed. [KM]
· University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
References
[DA]
K.Deschner, Abermals krähte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962.
[DO]
K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987.
[EC]
P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985.
[EJ]
S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977.
[HA]
Hunter, M., Wootton, D., Atheism from the Reformation to the Enlightenment, Oxford 1992.
[KM]
Schröder-Kappus, E., Wagner, W., Michael Sattler. Ein Märtyrer in Rottenburg, Tübingen, TVT Media 1992.
[LI]
H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961.
[MM]
M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People.
[MV]
A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992.
[NC]
J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992.
[S2]
Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00.
[SH]
D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992.
[SP]
German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996.
[TA]
A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676.
[TG]
F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980.
[WW]
H.Wollschläger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zürich 1973.
thessalonian
New Member
I don't have time to look in to all Bob's gibberish but here is an example of how he jumps on the revisionsits claims that the Catholic Church killed all these people. The Priscillians:
"After St. Martin had left the city, the emperor appointed the Prefect Evodius as judge. He found Priscillian and some others guilty of the crime of magic. This decision was reported to the emperor who put Priscillian and several of his followers to the sword; the property of others was confiscated and they were banished. "
Yes they were executed but it wasn't the way Bob paints it. Read the whole thing if you like, the Pope and Martin of Tours actually prescribed lienency and tolerated much of what was going on.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12429b.htm
Bob how bout that 8th commandment. You have an obligation to check your sources.
Blessings
"After St. Martin had left the city, the emperor appointed the Prefect Evodius as judge. He found Priscillian and some others guilty of the crime of magic. This decision was reported to the emperor who put Priscillian and several of his followers to the sword; the property of others was confiscated and they were banished. "
Yes they were executed but it wasn't the way Bob paints it. Read the whole thing if you like, the Pope and Martin of Tours actually prescribed lienency and tolerated much of what was going on.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12429b.htm
Bob how bout that 8th commandment. You have an obligation to check your sources.
Blessings
GraceSaves
New Member
I thank God I do not think like you in these regards, Bob.