Reading biblical study books

[Ben1445]

The author has PhDs in theology. Had access to the hidden Vatican library. Instead of dismissing the book try reading it .he explains how it changed some details but not the core message. That is why “the dummies guide to Christianity “ is such a great book.

How am I supposed believe that he brought out the correct word and isn’t the one doing what he claims he is exposing?
The history channel has a new show every Easter and none of them make sense.
Why should I believe he is not just selling clickbait?
But I will find it.

 

[Deacon]

Also, the reason I jumped in first is because the poster suggested to me on another thread that I read sci-fi to get a better idea of who God is.
Not my idea of Bible study books.
I asked indirectly, if the op was because of our conversation in the other thread. I didn’t get an answer.
But why, if I don’t read his science-fiction fantasy am I suddenly a one book person. (And then asking about being called a one book person, receive a deflection to the Bible has been rewritten)
I’m having a hard time taking the OP seriously.

Well Kevin, if you read sci-fi you're okay in my mind.
I personally think sci-fi and biblical studies enhance each other.
Among my collection I have three shelves of fiction, about half of it is sci-fi.
I'm trudging through Stevenson's Anathem now.

Regarding Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus, it was written to a popular audience (the New York Times endorsement gives that away).
It was grossly over-published and sharply discounted at Barnes and Nobel (check your copy for a remainder mark on the bottom edge).
He's quite popular as a lecturer, you can listen to his propaganda on Audible.
Dr. Ehrman is a self-proclaimed atheist - he's made a business of writing books that discourage unwary Christians.
It's best to stay away from his stuff as a beginner. He is a skilled writer and very convincing; writing from his own slanted, atheist viewpoint.

There have also been plenty of rebuttals written. Unfortunately they have not been discounted - but a few rebuttals have been posted in various places on the internet.i

I'd caution you against saying that the Bible has been "rewritten".
That's a gross misstatement. There are very isolated segments where the text is less than certain, but on the whole, the text has been proven to be quite secure.

Rob

 

[Ben1445]

Well Kevin, if you read sci-fi you're okay in my mind.
I personally think sci-fi and biblical studies enhance each other.
Among my collection I have three shelves of fiction, about half of it is sci-fi.
I'm trudging through Stevenson's Anathem now.

Regarding Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus, it was written to a popular audience (the New York Times endorsement gives that away).
It was grossly over-published and sharply discounted at Barnes and Nobel (check your copy for a remainder mark on the bottom edge).
He's quite popular as a lecturer, you can listen to his propaganda on Audible.
Dr. Ehrman is a self-proclaimed atheist - he's made a business of writing books that discourage unwary Christians.
It's best to stay away from his stuff as a beginner. He is a skilled writer and very convincing; writing from his own slanted, atheist viewpoint.

There have also been plenty of rebuttals written.

I'd caution you against saying that the Bible has been "rewritten".
That's a gross misstatement. There are very isolated segments where the text is less than certain, but on the whole, the text has been proven to be quite secure.

Rob

Thanks for the review, you saved me some time and though it may be only little, money still.
I’ll pass on it until I have time to spare.

 

[Ben1445]

Thanks for the review, you saved me some time and though it may be only little, money still.
I’ll pass on it until I have time to spare.

Not that I think he will change my mind.
2 Timothy 1:12
for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

[Ben1445]

Well Kevin, if you read sci-fi you're okay in my mind.
I personally think sci-fi and biblical studies enhance each other.
Among my collection I have three shelves of fiction, about half of it is sci-fi.
I'm trudging through Stevenson's Anathem now.

Regarding Bart Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus, it was written to a popular audience (the New York Times endorsement gives that away).
It was grossly over-published and sharply discounted at Barnes and Nobel (check your copy for a remainder mark on the bottom edge).
He's quite popular as a lecturer, you can listen to his propaganda on Audible.
Dr. Ehrman is a self-proclaimed atheist - he's made a business of writing books that discourage unwary Christians.
It's best to stay away from his stuff as a beginner. He is a skilled writer and very convincing; writing from his own slanted, atheist viewpoint.

There have also been plenty of rebuttals written. Unfortunately they have not been discounted - but a few rebuttals have been posted in various places on the internet.i

I'd caution you against saying that the Bible has been "rewritten".
That's a gross misstatement. There are very isolated segments where the text is less than certain, but on the whole, the text has been proven to be quite secure.

Rob

I’m also not against sci-fi. C. S. Lewis was quite good at it.
But the recommendation came to adjust my view of God based on fiction. I don’t get that.
I agree that secular reading can benefit anyone biblically if Bible is applied correctly.
But the advice is something I would expect from “Christian Science” and not serious followers of Christ.

 

[Deacon]

“Misquoting Jesus “ missing chapters of the Bible and “a dummies guide to Christianity “ are must reads. I am looking of guidance in terms of this topic.

An interesting recent book that you might enjoy is "Jesus, Contradicted; Why the Gospels Tell the Same Story Differently"
Ehrman was directly mentioned 12 times in the book.

It was 2008 and I faced the prominent skeptical New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman in a public debate at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, Missouri. An animated speaker, Ehrman has turned more churchgoers away from Christianity than perhaps anyone else in the Western world. In that debate, Professor Ehrman spent a lot of time criticizing the Gospels with a special focus on Gospel differences. p. 12.

Even the iconoclast Bart Ehrman writes, The manuscripts of the New Testament do indeed have large numbers of variations in them.… But the problem is not of such a scope as to make it impossible to have any idea what the ancient Christian authors wrote. If we had no clue what was originally in the writings of Paul or in the Gospels, this objection might carry more weight. But there is not a textual critic on the planet who thinks this, since not a shred of evidence leads in this direction.… As a result, in the vast majority of cases, the wording of these authors is not in dispute. p. 209.

Rob

 

[Deacon]

I’m also not against sci-fi. C. S. Lewis was quite good at it.
But the recommendation came to adjust my view of God based on fiction. I don’t get that.
I agree that secular reading can benefit anyone biblically if Bible is applied correctly.
But the advice is something I would expect from “Christian Science” and not serious followers of Christ.

Sadly other than C. S. Lewis (true sci-fi) and Tolkien (world-building fantasy, really), Christian sci-fi is quite lacking IMHO.

Sometimes the best sci-fi gently guides you towards a spiritual truth in ways non-fiction can't.

Rob

 

[Van]

Why is it the most stand ground people have read only one book and refuse to study that book?

Here we yet another fault finding OP, where something is wrong with the body of Christ. Why not post a proposed solution?

I assume folks are referring to the bible as ""that book?" So to restate the problem with clarity, why do folks not study the bible using bible study books, such as bible dictionaries, commentaries, exhaustive concordances, lexicons, multiple study bibles like NASB, NKJV, and NET with its exhaustive notes. And if a verse still seems not to make sense, try the NIV and NLT versions for a clue.

One answer seems to be a belief they already know what the book says, such as a Calvinist.

 

[Ben1445]

Here we yet another fault finding OP, where something is wrong with the body of Christ. Why not post a proposed solution?

I assume folks are referring to the bible as ""that book?" So to restate the problem with clarity, why do folks not study the bible using bible study books, such as bible dictionaries, commentaries, exhaustive concordances, lexicons, multiple study bibles like NASB, NKJV, and NET with its exhaustive notes. And if a verse still seems not to make sense, try the NIV and NLT versions for a clue.

One answer seems to be a belief they already know what the book says, such as a Calvinist.

I only wish it were that simple.
The books being suggested by the original poster are not books that will bring you to closer understanding of our Saviour. They are books that will help you have doubt. They are written by atheists and don’t edify Christians. They puff up knowledge, but not the knowledge of Christ.

“Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

This is my honest take on this post from all my interaction.
Take it for a warning if you will.

 

[KevinThrowe]

How am I supposed believe that he brought out the correct word and isn’t the one doing what he claims he is exposing?
The history channel has a new show every Easter and none of them make sense.
Why should I believe he is not just selling clickbait?
But I will find it.

Really have faith, go to the library and check out. The books.

Here we yet another fault finding OP, where something is wrong with the body of Christ. Why not post a proposed solution?

I assume folks are referring to the bible as ""that book?" So to restate the problem with clarity, why do folks not study the bible using bible study books, such as bible dictionaries, commentaries, exhaustive concordances, lexicons, multiple study bibles like NASB, NKJV, and NET with its exhaustive notes. And if a verse still seems not to make sense, try the NIV and NLT versions for a clue.

One answer seems to be a belief they already know what the book says, such as a Calvinist.

Solution would require the answer to where on the spectrum salvation starts. As with the nazis. It would seam clear the active participants, thru the knowing workers at the death camps, to the soldiers following orders, to the workers who know what is going on to the workers say butcher who haven’t e concept of acts and still support “ the final solution” to the workers who have no knowlege, Einstein said “If I were to remain silent , I would be guilty of complicity.” Thru the people who speak out, and get acted upon to the active working to end the perceived bad government.

 

[Deacon]

Really have faith, go to the library and check out. The books.
[snip]

Yes, unfortunately you'll probably find a book or two by Bart Ehrman in your public library.
My local library has a single shelf of "religious" books... very few of them are worth reading IMO.
But I counted four shelves of gender-related books. :-(

A church library would be a better starting place to look (speaking as a church librarian).
Although the curated selection on the shelves in our church library do not deal with textual criticism (which is the topic you've been discussing).

I used to live near a small Christian University (Cairns University, Langhorne, PA). Each year a few of the students served in the church I attended.
In their fourth year they would delve deeply into some troubling topics, such as textual criticism. It would shake the faith of some.
Sometimes it's good to shake things up... sometimes it's not. The students had the support of professors, staff and others to counsel them through it. But introducing these issues to someone not completely grounded in the faith flirts with danger. Protect your faith!

Scripture addresses protecting your faith through vigilance, discernment, and active resistance to spiritual threats.
Knowing beforehand that deception exists, you should take care not to be swept away by the error of lawless people and lose your stability (2 Peter 3:17-18).

Guard and Maintain Your Faith
Follow the pattern of sound teaching and guard the treasure that dwells within you (2 Timothy 1:13-14; 6:20-21). Hold fast to your confession of hope without wavering, depend on the faithfulness of God (Hebrews 10:23). Guard your heart with vigilance; keep your eyes on the prize (Proverbs 4:23-27).

Guard Against Deception and False Teaching
Discernment is an essential protection. Believers should “test everything; hold fast what is good,” (1 Thessalonians 5:21-22). Paul warns against allowing philosophy and empty deception to take you captive (Colossians 2:6-8). Believers are called to “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints,” (Jude 3) which requires both awareness and action.

Spiritual Strength, Preparedness and Resistance
The armor of God enables you to stand against the devil’s schemes, recognize that we struggle against spiritual forces of evil (Ephesians 6:10-18). Be sober-minded and watchful, our adversary is seeking someone to devour, resist! stay firm in your faith (1 Peter 5:8-9).

Rob

 

[Van]

SNIP:

Solution would require the answer to where on the spectrum salvation starts. As with the nazis. It would seam clear the active participants, thru the knowing workers at the death camps, to the soldiers following orders, to the workers who know what is going on to the workers say butcher who haven’t e concept of acts and still support “ the final solution” to the workers who have no knowlege, Einstein said “If I were to remain silent , I would be guilty of complicity.” Thru the people who speak out, and get acted upon to the active working to end the perceived bad government.

No, because we cannot be sure where on the spectrum salvation starts without study of God's word, that book.

Please try and answer these questions:
1) Did we save ourselves or did God save us?
2) If you believe, as I do, God saved us, then did we initiate the process or did God initiate the process?
3) If you believe, as I do, that we love God because He first loved us, then did we play any part in our salvation?
4) If you believe, as I do, that we obtained the grace of salvation through faith, then did our faith merit or earn our salvation?
5) If you believe, as I do, that grace is according to grace, not works, then our faith did not merit or earn our salvation.
6) Therefore salvation depends not of the person who wills to be saved, but upon God who chooses to have mercy, Romans 9:16.

 

[Van]

I only wish it were that simple.
The books being suggested by the original poster are not books that will bring you to closer understanding of our Saviour. They are books that will help you have doubt. They are written by atheists and don’t edify Christians. They puff up knowledge, but not the knowledge of Christ.

“Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

This is my honest take on this post from all my interaction.
Take it for a warning if you will.

Thanks, I hoped your take was not true, but time and his response will tell...

 

[KevinThrowe]

No, because we cannot be sure where on the spectrum salvation starts without study of God's word, that book.

Please try and answer these questions:
1) Did we save ourselves or did God save us?
2) If you believe, as I do, God saved us, then did we initiate the process or did God initiate the process?
3) If you believe, as I do, that we love God because He first loved us, then did we play any part in our salvation?
4) If you believe, as I do, that we obtained the grace of salvation through faith, then did our faith merit or earn our salvation?
5) If you believe, as I do, that grace is according to grace, not works, then our faith did not merit or earn our salvation.
6) Therefore salvation depends not of the person who wills to be saved, but upon God who chooses to have mercy, Romans 9:16.

That does not address. If you believe that as long as the sin is the action of the government you support then you get off . Then why are there commandments?

 

[KevinThrowe]

Sadly other than C. S. Lewis (true sci-fi) and Tolkien (world-building fantasy, really), Christian sci-fi is quite lacking IMHO.

Sometimes the best sci-fi gently guides you towards a spiritual truth in ways non-fiction can't.

Rob

Off the OP but worth a side bar. In the year of living the Old Testament the guy told the story of being in the park with kids , a large man asked about his outfit, the guy tells of living as the Bible tells him to live, big guy asks about adultery. When author tells about the requirements of stoning the big guy said “ I’m an adulterer “ author tells of picking up pebbles and throwing at big guy. He feared the big man would hurt him but instead laughed and complimented his courage. Don’t hear much talk about biblical wisdom on adultery.
From the missing chapters book the comments on the steps of the temple incident the one apostle tells of Jesus physically beating the money people and the powers that be removing the story as Jesus should never beat on someone,
In misquoting I realized the reality that Jesus died a criminal and it was years later in other languages that the stories were recorded.
The concept of the tied candle lit monk copying the text and making mistakes that become creed made me understand
The dummies guide gets the best explanations of the meanings without trying to do it with unclear sentences.

 

[Van]

That does not address. If you believe that as long as the sin is the action of the government you support then you get off . Then why are there commandments?

The action of government is non-germane to this topic, perhaps this response was intended for another thread?

 

[KevinThrowe]

The action of government is non-germane to this topic, perhaps this response was intended for another thread?

The OP is about the divide between salvation and damnation. With the anniversary of Auschwitz and the stories of the actions of Germans at the camp and the lack of earthly justice where is the after life judgment?

 

[Van]

Please try and answer these questions:
1) Did we save ourselves or did God save us?
2) If you believe, as I do, God saved us, then did we initiate the process or did God initiate the process?
3) If you believe, as I do, that we love God because He first loved us, then did we play any part in our salvation?
4) If you believe, as I do, that we obtained the grace of salvation through faith, then did our faith merit or earn our salvation?
5) If you believe, as I do, that faith is according to grace, not works, then our faith did not merit or earn our salvation.
6) Therefore salvation depends not of the person who wills to be saved, but upon God who chooses to have mercy, Romans 9:16.

I guess everyone agrees with my understand of the spectrum of entry into Salvation!

 

[Ben1445]

The OP is about the divide between salvation and damnation. With the anniversary of Auschwitz and the stories of the actions of Germans at the camp and the lack of earthly justice where is the after life judgment?

You are actually on the biblical study books thread.

Your first post…

Why is it the most stand ground people have read only one book and refuse to study that book?

 

[Van]

The OP is about the divide between salvation and damnation. With the anniversary of Auschwitz and the stories of the actions of Germans at the camp and the lack of earthly justice where is the after life judgment?

Yet another change of subject post - I was personally in Germany (West Germany at that time) and saw the bombed out buildings still in Frankfurt in the 1960's. There was an attempt at Earthy justice, it was called WWII.