Reasons Not To See "The Passion"

[vaspers]

Daniel, I honor your opinion and your sincerity.

But just be sure to compare the film's subtitles and scenes with the Gospel records, to distinguish truth from error.

And ask yourself "what is the agenda, the propaganda, being pushed via these errors, additions, and deletions, and the extreme focus on the savagery, to neglect of the Resurrection and Ascension of our Lord and Savior???"

 

[tnelson]

For the sake of time and space I did not.

mike

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
Those of you who can afford to, I would suggest you visit the Philippines on "Holy" week, whenever that is. Go to this little province called Pampanga, where Clark Air Force Base used to be, and watch the spiritual deadness of man in that he thinks he can atone for his sins by imitating what Christ did.

Self-flagellation, actually being nailed onto a wooden cross using actual nails, being whipped while carrying a cross under the 100F sun of the Philippines, blood, gore, sweat, heat, dust, everywhere, but I don't think those "devotees" belong to the same kind of Catholicism Mel Gibson belongs to.

wow, do the pictures here look familiar?

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/48/593.html?

 

[vaspers]

I fervently pray that some Christian, perhaps here on the Baptist Board, will make a biblically accurate movie on the Resurrection, and the Ascension, and Pentecost.

Use mind-boggling special effects, both hi-tech and primitive surrealism, to blow people away with Joy, Peace, Goodness, Patience, the fruits of the Spirit, in cinematic splendor.

Done correctly, this movie, THE ARISING or some such title, could amass far more popularity, and praise, and lead more people to salvation...

...than Mel's "film" on the "passion" of our Saviour. At least he should've called it THE SUFFERING, ACCORDING TO ME & EMMERICH, LOOSELY INSPIRED ON SELECTED BIBLE TEXTS. But that would be too honest and less commercial.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by tnelson:
For the sake of time and space I did not.

mike

But don't you see how misleading it was just to isolate that one verse out of context?

You made it appear that the movie, itself, was a "graven image", forbidden by scripture.

When we look at the text in it's proper context, however, we see that it has nothing to do with using film to tell the story of Christ's Passion.

I'm sure this was perfectly innocent on your part and not out of any sort of effort to mislead but to isolate a verse like that can lead to all sorts of problems and misunderstandings.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Originally posted by vaspers:
I fervently pray that some Christian, perhaps here on the Baptist Board, will make a biblically accurate movie on the Resurrection, and the Ascension, and Pentecost.
.

while not including the Ascension n Pentecost (for obvious reasons), The Gospel of John movie has been acclaimed as accurate (word-for-word outta the canonical gospel) n cinematographically excellent.

however, it suffered fr the non-interest of the evangelical world. no "it is as it was" either, fr the Pope. one common denominator: neither the Romish or evangelical machinery was interested in anything too biblically accurate.

i hear it's now out on DVD n VHS, but it ain't cheap

 

[tinytim]

After reading the narrow-minded views of Anti-Passionites, along with their prejudiced anti-catholic views, with a topping of legalism, I'm glad I belong to the ABC-USA.

The movie will be, and has been, a tool for use by Bible-believing Christians to lead the un-churched to Christ. Thank God for the movie.

People will complain over anything, won't they?
They'll even complain when Christ comes back.

I said it once and I'll say it again, Be careful not to blaspheme what God is doing!!!
Don't be a stumbling block to the lost.

 

[Watchman]

Originally posted by tinytim:

I said it once and I'll say it again, Be careful not to blaspheme what God is doing!!!
Don't be a stumbling block to the lost.

And I have followed you before and will do so again after the outlandish remark that we critics are commiting blasphemy and are being stumbling blocks for opposing a movie. I felt you owed all of us an apology after your first tirade. Not only did we not get that aplology, but you lamblast us again.
Folks, it is a movie. A movie by Mel Gibson, a Catholic. A movie with non-biblical content. An R rated movie.

I just heard last Sunday my pastor's take on this movie and he had a rather interesting view, a view that, I don't believe has been addressed in any of these debates.
Here was God's dear Son, mocked, beaten, crucified. If it was your son, how much detail would YOU want to hear or have repeated?

They pierced My hands and My feet...He was scurged...a crown of thorns was placed, etc. This is the language given in the Bible. Could not the writers of the account of His death been a little more graphic? John was there, he certainly could have explained it in more graphic terms, yet they did not. Could it be that God did not want it to be discribed more graphically? Could it be that the picture that we have in the Bible enough?
I'll leave it to you to think about that.

 

[Spirit and Truth]

FSIH:

while not including the Ascension n Pentecost (for obvious reasons), The Gospel of John movie has been acclaimed as accurate (word-for-word outta the canonical gospel) n cinematographically excellent.

S&T:

I saw it in the theatre, and the movie was done fairly well. I was dissapointed that they used the "Good News" bible for the dialog. The earlier "Matthew" and "Acts" series used the NIV.

 

[Spirit and Truth]

TT:

I said it once and I'll say it again, Be careful not to blaspheme what God is doing!!!

S&T:

God clearly does not mix His Truth with untruth and man's speculation. He is a jealous God, so He does not promote Idol worship [Mary]. By God's own standard [His Word] this movie is not of Him. Will He use it? He is God, He is sovereign, and He is on the Throne. Is it in His perfect will? Decide by His Word.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by tinytim:
I said it once and I'll say it again, Be careful not to blaspheme what God is doing!!!
Don't be a stumbling block to the lost.

Catholicism is not the gospel of the Bible, it is another gospel. Preaching another gospel is a stumbling block to the lost. I heard on the news that the entire cast went to mass every day and many of them had not been in church in years. This was applauded as if it were a good thing. The problem is, in the mass they believe they are eating the literal flesh and blood of Christ and they are sacrificing Him all over again. To this, Hebrews 6 DOES apply.

To those who think we should shut up I remind you of these words of Paul.

Gal 1:8-9
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
(NIV)

Someone else said that if we disagree we should keep it to ourselves and not push our agenda on everyone else. Well, there are errors in this film and to suggest that christians have no right to speak out against it...how christian and biblical is that? It definately isn't American, and I thought that is where I lived.

If you think the Holy Spirit NEEDS this film to convict man of sin and righteousness and judgment then you read a different Bible than I do. Share the gospel straight from God's Word, you might be amazed to find out that it works better than a film filled with error and lies.

~Lorelei

 

[vaspers]

Watchman, I have said repeatedly, in similar words and scenarios, and I'm not aware of any Passion fanatics "debunking" this:

If, mother, your daughter was grotesquely defiled and brutalized and murdered by a bunch of drug-crazed gangbangers, enabling you to escape for safety...

...and she did it because she loved you more than her own life and comfort and safety...

...and Mel Gibson videotaped the entire assault, zooming in on gory details, and ADDING more blood and gore of his own, to sell tickets...

...would you, mother, rush with glee, popcorn, and soda, to view this "entertainment" or this thing to make you "appreciate" more what she did?

If so, I hardly know what to say.

Now I hear The "P" movie shows Jesus dangling from a chain over a cliff. Does Mel Gibson just flat out have no respect or reverence for our wonderful Savior? Does he in fact have hostility to Jesus? I wonder. I really really wonder.

 

[Caretaker]

A perspective:

http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/mel_gibsons_vivid_deception.htm


This is from the Dolorous Passion Website and a specific incorporation of demonic influences into the movie.

http://www.emmerich1.com/DOLOROUS_PASSION_OF_OUR_LORD_JESUS_CHRIST.htm


http://www.emmerich1.com/THE_PASSION2.htm#CHAPTER%20XXIII

When Jesus fell down at the foot of the pillar, after the flagellation,

I saw Claudia Procles, the wife of Pilate, send some large pieces of linen to the Mother of God .

I know not whether she thought that Jesus would be set free, and that his Mother would then require linen to dress his wounds, or whether this compassionate lady was aware of the use which would be made of her present. At the termination of the scourging, Mary came to herself for a time, and saw her Divine Son all torn and mangled, being led away by the archers after the scourging: he wiped his eyes, which were filled with blood, that he might look at his Mother, and she stretched out her hands towards him, and continued to look at the bloody traces of his footsteps.

I soon after saw Mary and Magdalen approach the pillar where Jesus had been scourged; the mob were at a distance, and they were partly concealed by the other holy women, and by a few kind-hearted persons who had joined them; they knelt down on the ground near the pillar, and wiped up the sacred blood with the linen which Claudia Procles had sent .

John was not at that time with the holy women, who were about twenty in number. The sons of Simeon and of Obed, and Veronica, as also the two nephews of Joseph of Arimathea—Aram and Themni—were in the Temple, and appeared to be overwhelmed with grief. It was not more than nine o’clock A.M. when the scourging terminated.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[onestand]

I find it quite interesting that some find this movie so full of error and others find it competely accurate. Since I have not seen it yet I cannot speak of the entire movie, but I will say this, just from seeing the trailor I am just in awe how anyone can consider this film something that God cannot use. No, the holy spirit doesn't NEED anything in particular and that includes a pastor behind a pulpit, but God provides these things for the spreading of Gospel and from what I saw so far of this movie, it IS VERY MUCH the true gospel, now I can't wait to view it and see it in full how true or false it is.

Joan

 

[michelle]

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Sister Granny Gumbo,

Amen to your post!!!!! This pastor is speaking the truth and warning the flock - he is truly a loving man. Thank you for posting it.

May the Lord bless you all richly.

love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Brother Adam]

The problem is, in the mass they believe they are eating the literal flesh and blood of Christ and they are sacrificing Him all over again

Wrong.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

> Originally posted by tinytim: After reading the narrow-minded views of Anti-Passionites, along with their prejudiced anti-catholic views, with a topping of legalism, I'm glad I belong to the ABC-USA.

is ABC-USA ecumenical?

> The movie will be, and has been, a tool for use by Bible-believing Christians to lead the un-churched to Christ. Thank God for the movie.

like someone said, God can use Nebuchadnezzar. shd we therefore worship Marduk?

> People will complain over anything, won't they?
They'll even complain when Christ comes back.

why wld anyone complain over the blessed hope? (Titus 2:13)

> I said it once and I'll say it again, Be careful not to blaspheme what God is doing!!!
Don't be a stumbling block to the lost.

right now there's a nicely camouflaged stumblingblock to weaker brethren; it's called ecumenism. the Romists r using this to ensnare Christians fr their pure faith, as James White points out in his blog (www.aomin.org 3/1/04: Shepherds, Be Alert)--here's what the Romists have to say:

As someone involved in the distribution and marketing of the film, I noticed early on the fervor with which many Protestant communities were preparing to use the film for evangelistic purposes. Websites sprang up featuring downloadable materials about Jesus and the gospels. Marketing companies began churning out posters and flyers promoting the film and their own faith communities. Tracts poured into circulation making the case for Christ as the key to peace and happiness in life.

Yet, for all the sophisticated evangelization strategies, the irony is that our Protestant brothers and sisters cannot adequately speak to many of the issues and questions the film evokes because the film is so distinctly Marian, so - obviously Eucharistic, so quintessentially Catholic — as is the New Testament itself. In terms of effecting conversions and motivating people to weed out sin from their lives - which is what meditating on the Passion of Christ is all about--our evangelical friends have been an inspiration. But can their theology adequately or honestly mine such cinematic gems as the Last Supper flashbacks? Though the founders of some of the prominent Protestant denominations believed in and adored the Blessed Sacrament, this fact has been lost today in huge portions of American Protestantism. And without an understanding of Mary as our model in true Christian faith, one cannot begin to understand her significant role in the film. Only a solid understanding of the Catholic Faith can help us grasp these essential elements that figure so prominently in both in the Scriptural record and the apostolic Tradition.

The film quite accurately links the sacrifice of the cross with the sacrifice of the Mass. In doing so, it faithfully depicts biblical and Catholic teaching. Yet the Eucharistic connections between the Passion and the Mass are not obvious to many Catholics today. Indeed, speaking out of my own experience as a clueless Catholic ten years ago, I can only say that it’s highly unlikely that such connections are obvious even to those who have been born and raised in the Church. This is not because the connections are not there, but because so many people have not received an education in the Faith that equips them to see those connections, which are quite real and are, in fact, delineated for us in the teaching of the Church. Therefore, we at CatholicExchange.com see a need for this book to provide answers to some of the many questions critical to a full understanding of authentic Christianity - questions The Passion of The Christ will most certainly raise.

 

[Brother Adam]

pure faith. yeah.

 

[tinytim]

Yes, the ABC-USA is ecumenical.

There are Brothers and Sisters in the RCC.
To say there are not, places works in the plan of Salvation.
Are they right in doctrine? No, of course not.
But,
The Baptists are not the only ones that are in the bride of Christ.

So when it comes to winning the lost, it's important that denominations work together.

I'm sorry that a lot of you have been blinded by your Roman Catholic Predjudices.

I've seen Christians revived after seeing this movie. They are witnessing more and more.
I've seen lost won to the Lord after seeing the movie.

Can someone with an heretical background bring something forth that pleases God?
.
.
.Be careful how you answer.
.
.
.
.
.
After all God used an Anglican named Erasmus and a homosexual king to bring us the KJV!!
.
He used Judas to accomplish his purposes.
Whether Mel Gibson is saved is only known by God.


But even if he isn't, God is still using his movie to build His kingdom.

Look around at America. We've got homos destroying marriage on both coasts. We've got politicians running on both sides that hasn't got the guts to outlaw abortion. We've got kids with STDs. 50% of 22 yr olds have an STD. The number one drug for seniors in high school is oxycontin. And some on this board has nothing to do but condemn a movie that shows the world that Christ suffered and died for their sins!!!
Amazing.

We should use this oppurtunity that has fallen in our laps to tell the world how much God loves us!
God is bringing destruction to America if we continue on the path we're on. If we don't repent, 9/11 will be childs play when God gets through with us.

Maybe, just maybe, this is God's way of giving us one last chance. Apologize to people that want to hide from the public what Christ has done for us?
Never.

Remember:
Act 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
Act 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
Act 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
Act 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
Act 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Act 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Or to put it in everyday language:
Act 5:34 But one of the council members stood up, a Pharisee by the name of Gamaliel, a teacher of God's Law who was honored by everyone. He ordered the men taken out of the room for a short time,
Act 5:35 then said, "Fellow Israelites, be careful what you do to these men.
Act 5:36 Not long ago Theudas made something of a splash, claiming to be somebody, and got about four hundred men to join him. He was killed, his followers dispersed, and nothing came of it.
Act 5:37 A little later, at the time of the census, Judas the Galilean appeared and acquired a following. He also fizzled out and the people following him were scattered to the four winds.
Act 5:38 "So I am telling you: Hands off these men! Let them alone. If this program or this work is merely human, it will fall apart,
Act 5:39 but if it is of God, there is nothing you can do about it--and you better not be found fighting against God!" The Message


Just be careful that you don't fight God.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Brother Adam:
The problem is, in the mass they believe they are eating the literal flesh and blood of Christ and they are sacrificing Him all over again

Wrong.

The catholic church not only teaches that the Eucharist is the real body and blood of Christ and that the mass is a real sacrifice, but they anathemetize anyone who dares to disagree.

COUNCIL OF TRENT: THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON I
If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema.

THIRTEENTH SESSION, CANONS ON THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST CANON lI:
If any one saith, that, in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denieth that wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the bread into the Body, and of the whole substance of the wine into the Blood-the species Only of the bread and wine remaining-which conversion indeed the Catholic Church most aptly calls Transubstantiation; let him be anathema.

TWENTY-SECOND SESSION, CANONS ON THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS: "If anyone says that in the mass a true and real sacrifice is not offered to God; or that to be offered is nothing else than that Christ is given to us to eat, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA"

Here is a link that shares even more beliefs that the catholic church eternally condemns people for believing. Be careful, you might find out that the catholic church isn't all that they try to portray themselves to be.

http://www.guidedbytruth.com/anathema.shtml

~Lorelei