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Reasons Not To See "The Passion"
- Thread starter Jeffrey H
- Start date
JonathanDT
New Member
Truth or ignorance?
You folks probably already know of this link, but I just had it sent to me from Elder John Kohler pastor of Morris Fork Baptist church in Meadow Brook WV. Elder Kohler also operates the Historic Baptist Symposium an email group through yahoogroups.Emmerich's Book Online
The book can be read online at the link above.
Bro. Dallas
The book can be read online at the link above.
Bro. Dallas
Spirit and Truth
New Member
JDT:
Truth or ignorance?
S&T:
In the event that you are referring to me, please state your case.
Truth or ignorance?
S&T:
In the event that you are referring to me, please state your case.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Kiffin, I loved it even more the second time also. The first time I was influenced by all the negative posted here and wasn't as receptive. I hope I can see it again this week with my husband.
Diane
Diane
In as much as it carried the agenda to depict Mary as suffering together with Christ, it is heresy.
Gibson himself even said that he was surprised that non-Catholics have
embraced the film as much as they have. He said, "I've been actually amazed
at the way I would say the evangelical audience has-hands down-responded to
this film more than any other Christian group." What makes it so amazing, he
says, is that "the film is so Marian."
CHAPTER XVIII
The Origin of the Way of the Cross
DURING the whole of the scene which we have just described, the Mother of Jesus, with Magdalen and John, had stood in a recess in the forum: they were overwhelmed with the most bitter sorrow, which was but increased by all they heard and saw. When Jesus was taken before Herod, John led the Blessed Virgin and Magdalen over the parts which had been sanctified by his footsteps. They again looked at the house of Caiphas, that of Annas, Ophel, Gethsemani, and the Garden of Olives; they stopped and contemplated each spot where he had fallen, or where he had suffered particularly; and they wept silently at the thought of all he had undergone. The Blessed Virgin knelt down frequently and kissed the ground where her Son had fallen, while Magdalen wrung her hands in bitter grief, and John, although he could not restrain his own tears, endeavoured to console his companions, supported, and led them on. Thus was the holy devotion of the ‘Way of the Cross’ first practised; thus were the Mysteries of the Passion of Jesus first honoured, even before that Passion was accomplished, and the Blessed Virgin, that model of spotless purity, was the first to show forth the deep veneration felt by the Church for our dear Lord. How sweet and consoling to follow this Immaculate Mother, passing to and fro, and bedewing the sacred spots with her tears. But, ah! who can describe the sharp, sharp sword of grief which then transfixed her tender soul?. She who had once borne the Saviour of the world in her chaste womb, and suckled him for so long,—she who had truly conceived him who was the Word of God, in God from all eternity, and truly God,—she beneath whose heart, full of grace, he had deigned to dwell nine months, who had felt him living within her before he appeared among men to impart the blessing of salvation and teach them his heavenly doctrines; she suffered with Jesus, sharing with him not only the sufferings of his bitter Passion, but likewise that ardent desire of redeeming fallen man by an ignominious death, which consumed him.
In this touching manner did the most pure and holy Virgin lay the foundation of the devotion called the Way of the Cross; thus at each station, marked by the sufferings of her Son, did she lay up in her heart the inexhaustible merits of his Passion, and gather them up as precious stones or sweet-scented flowers to be presented as a choice offering to the Eternal Father in behalf of all true believers. The grief of Magdalen was so intense as to make her almost like an insane person. The holy and boundless love she felt for our Lord prompted her to cast herself at his feet, and there pour forth the feelings of her heart (as she once poured the precious Ointment on his head as he sat at table); but when on the point of following this impulse, a dark gulf appeared to intervene between herself and him. The repentance she felt for her faults was immense, and not less intense was her gratitude for their pardon; but when she longed to offer acts of love and thanksgiving as precious incense at the feet of Jesus, she beheld him betrayed, suffering, and about to die for the expiation of her offences which he had taken upon himself, and this sight filled her with horror, and almost rent her soul asunder with feelings of love, repentance, and gratitude. The sight of the ingratitude of those for whom he was about to die increased the bitterness of these feelings tenfold, and every step, word, or movement demonstrated the agony of her soul. The heart of John was filled with love, and he suffered intensely, but he uttered not a word. He supported the Mother of his beloved Master in this her first pilgrimage through the stations of the Way of the Cross, and assisted her in giving the example of that devotion which has since been practised with so much fervour by the members of the Christian Church.
http://www.emmerich1.com/THE_PASSION2.htm#CHAPTER%20XVII
Brother Dallas
Gibson himself even said that he was surprised that non-Catholics have
embraced the film as much as they have. He said, "I've been actually amazed
at the way I would say the evangelical audience has-hands down-responded to
this film more than any other Christian group." What makes it so amazing, he
says, is that "the film is so Marian."
CHAPTER XVIII
The Origin of the Way of the Cross
DURING the whole of the scene which we have just described, the Mother of Jesus, with Magdalen and John, had stood in a recess in the forum: they were overwhelmed with the most bitter sorrow, which was but increased by all they heard and saw. When Jesus was taken before Herod, John led the Blessed Virgin and Magdalen over the parts which had been sanctified by his footsteps. They again looked at the house of Caiphas, that of Annas, Ophel, Gethsemani, and the Garden of Olives; they stopped and contemplated each spot where he had fallen, or where he had suffered particularly; and they wept silently at the thought of all he had undergone. The Blessed Virgin knelt down frequently and kissed the ground where her Son had fallen, while Magdalen wrung her hands in bitter grief, and John, although he could not restrain his own tears, endeavoured to console his companions, supported, and led them on. Thus was the holy devotion of the ‘Way of the Cross’ first practised; thus were the Mysteries of the Passion of Jesus first honoured, even before that Passion was accomplished, and the Blessed Virgin, that model of spotless purity, was the first to show forth the deep veneration felt by the Church for our dear Lord. How sweet and consoling to follow this Immaculate Mother, passing to and fro, and bedewing the sacred spots with her tears. But, ah! who can describe the sharp, sharp sword of grief which then transfixed her tender soul?. She who had once borne the Saviour of the world in her chaste womb, and suckled him for so long,—she who had truly conceived him who was the Word of God, in God from all eternity, and truly God,—she beneath whose heart, full of grace, he had deigned to dwell nine months, who had felt him living within her before he appeared among men to impart the blessing of salvation and teach them his heavenly doctrines; she suffered with Jesus, sharing with him not only the sufferings of his bitter Passion, but likewise that ardent desire of redeeming fallen man by an ignominious death, which consumed him.
In this touching manner did the most pure and holy Virgin lay the foundation of the devotion called the Way of the Cross; thus at each station, marked by the sufferings of her Son, did she lay up in her heart the inexhaustible merits of his Passion, and gather them up as precious stones or sweet-scented flowers to be presented as a choice offering to the Eternal Father in behalf of all true believers. The grief of Magdalen was so intense as to make her almost like an insane person. The holy and boundless love she felt for our Lord prompted her to cast herself at his feet, and there pour forth the feelings of her heart (as she once poured the precious Ointment on his head as he sat at table); but when on the point of following this impulse, a dark gulf appeared to intervene between herself and him. The repentance she felt for her faults was immense, and not less intense was her gratitude for their pardon; but when she longed to offer acts of love and thanksgiving as precious incense at the feet of Jesus, she beheld him betrayed, suffering, and about to die for the expiation of her offences which he had taken upon himself, and this sight filled her with horror, and almost rent her soul asunder with feelings of love, repentance, and gratitude. The sight of the ingratitude of those for whom he was about to die increased the bitterness of these feelings tenfold, and every step, word, or movement demonstrated the agony of her soul. The heart of John was filled with love, and he suffered intensely, but he uttered not a word. He supported the Mother of his beloved Master in this her first pilgrimage through the stations of the Way of the Cross, and assisted her in giving the example of that devotion which has since been practised with so much fervour by the members of the Christian Church.
http://www.emmerich1.com/THE_PASSION2.htm#CHAPTER%20XVII
Brother Dallas
D
DeafChristian
Guest
None of my pastors talk filthy....I don't blame the church for being offended by his filthy mouth...I would be upset too. I would've gone to another church.
Nancy
Nancy
Originally posted by vaspers:
Yes my pastor saw the film and very soon thereafter verbally assaulted me and my wife in the presence of deacons in a public restaurant, using the *same filthy words* against me that I asked him to consider toning down in *his sermons*.
He also told me our church is NOT the "house of the Lord" it's JUST a building and he can say whatever he wants. People, the words he uses are so vile, I cannot repeat them anywhere, but they relate to body parts and functions.
Is my pastor possessed? I don't know, but his actions do remind me of demonized savages in faraway places who, when you say things like "house of the Lord" freeeeeek out and utter abominable obscene rantings, like my pastor favors.
Is this due ONLY to him seeing THE PASSION? Probably not, but it sure is a curious juxtaposition or coincidence.
The deacons met this morning. Now I'm meeting with them this afternoon. Many in the church are upset by his offensive speech and descriptions of perverse acts in sermons. Not sure how this will end up.
I have withdrawn a comment or two I have made when someone corrected me or questioned the accuracy of my accusations or interpretations.
This is good. Use the same analytical methods and boldness with the "P" film that you're using to think critically about my statements, and see what conclusions you come to regarding this film.
I have given web site references for major accusations made about this film, so anyone can read the same things I read.
I got my info about the "P" film from BP (Baptist Press) News, Fox News, WORLD magazine, Christianity Today, The Ooze online Youth Ministry magazine, John MacArthur's Grace To You web site, www.emmerich1.com, www.odan.org, and other easy to access sources.
Thanks Brother Bob I appreciate the kind words. I won't mind a little disagreement on the BB, I have already been informed by some family members that if I didn't think this was the greatest tool for evangelism in the last 100 years that they doubted my calling to preach 
imagine that. The statement was made that everyone should see this film and I replied that everyone should read the Bible and listen to the preaching of the truth from the Bible.
I wouldn't mind folks seeing it if they want to that is their business, but to not be able to recognize at the very least the Marian focus is a shame among mature Christians, imho.
Thanks for the support.
Bro. Dallas
imagine that. The statement was made that everyone should see this film and I replied that everyone should read the Bible and listen to the preaching of the truth from the Bible. I wouldn't mind folks seeing it if they want to that is their business, but to not be able to recognize at the very least the Marian focus is a shame among mature Christians, imho.
Thanks for the support.
Bro. Dallas
This is probably answered on another post, if so forgive me, I thought I would post it just in case.
Mel Gibson is a Traditionalist Catholic, whether they are recognized by the church or not I do not know, but they reject the papal decisions of 1962 which made the Roman Catholic more accepting of other faiths restating that one does not have to be a member of the Catholic church to be saved.
The Traditionalist Catholic deny this as truth, they are 'historical' Catholics and not so 'evangelical' as the current church. This intensifies the obvious agenda the movie carries. The message is the Catholic message of Mary, plain and simple.
I have also read, here or somewhere that in the movie Christ said 'it is accomplished' just before giving up the ghost. Is this what he said in scripture? Does it matter? To accomplish something carries the idea of finishing it, but there are three words from the Greek translated in the KJV 'accomplished' and each of these words also carry the connotation of something further to be added. Go figure out what we have to add to the eternal work of Christ, when you find it in scripture, let me know.
I will try to find my source on this and post it if anyone wishes me to do so.
Bro. Dallas
Spirit and Truth
New Member
Frogman:
I will try to find my source on this and post it if anyone wishes me to do so.
S&T:
Below is an excerpt from an article on the movie:
Another example of deviation from Scriptural or historic facts is referenced in the official website Synopsis section:
"...On Golgotha, Jesus is nailed to the cross and undergoes his last temptation--the fear that he has been abandoned by his Father. He overcomes his fear, looks at Mary, his Holy Mother, and makes the pronouncement which only she can fully understand, 'it is accomplished' then dies "into thy hands I commend my Spirit." 6
When Jesus looked at Mary from the cross, it was to declare to her and John, that she was now his mother. John 19:23-30. There is no conversational interaction between them. But, in the movie, while he is hanging on the cross, Mary says to Jesus, "Flesh of my flesh, Heart of my heart, My son, let me die with you" She kisses his feet and then stands there looking up at him with blood on her lips and face. Luke 23:43-55
What is referenced as His last temptation above, is when He cried out, My God, My God...[Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34] Jesus was not afraid. He was quoting from Psalms 22:1...not because He was fearful, but so all prophecy about Himself was fulfilled, in these events. He never said "it is accomplished," while on the cross. He said "It is Finished."
http://www.SeekGod.ca/gibson.htm
I will try to find my source on this and post it if anyone wishes me to do so.
S&T:
Below is an excerpt from an article on the movie:
Another example of deviation from Scriptural or historic facts is referenced in the official website Synopsis section:
"...On Golgotha, Jesus is nailed to the cross and undergoes his last temptation--the fear that he has been abandoned by his Father. He overcomes his fear, looks at Mary, his Holy Mother, and makes the pronouncement which only she can fully understand, 'it is accomplished' then dies "into thy hands I commend my Spirit." 6
When Jesus looked at Mary from the cross, it was to declare to her and John, that she was now his mother. John 19:23-30. There is no conversational interaction between them. But, in the movie, while he is hanging on the cross, Mary says to Jesus, "Flesh of my flesh, Heart of my heart, My son, let me die with you" She kisses his feet and then stands there looking up at him with blood on her lips and face. Luke 23:43-55
What is referenced as His last temptation above, is when He cried out, My God, My God...[Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34] Jesus was not afraid. He was quoting from Psalms 22:1...not because He was fearful, but so all prophecy about Himself was fulfilled, in these events. He never said "it is accomplished," while on the cross. He said "It is Finished."
http://www.SeekGod.ca/gibson.htm
Actually, while Mary is in the crowd, as scripture tells us she was, I don't believe that the scene indicates that Jesus is addressing her, directly.
So then, a mother is watching her son dies a slow and agonizing death and it's completely unreasonable that she would grieve?
Actually, He didn't say either one.
He said "tetelestai", which means literally, "the debt is paid".
If you're going to translate that as "it is finished", then I don't see any signifigant difference between that and "it is accomplished".
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
Amazing web site: Perhaps The Passion was distributed to the theatres via black helicopters......
That website is something...This statement especially
That statement is not even worthy to reply to in that it shows the reviewer apparently has not seen the movie nor does he know what he is talking about. Gnostics would be upset at the resurrection scene in the Passion.
Baptists have often not given either Mary the mother of Jesus or Mary Magdalene their due respect anyway. Mary of Nazareth and Mary Magdalene are two fascinating Bible characters and I was glad to see the emphasis. If the emphasis had been placed on Peter, or Ben Hur etc..there probably would not be the idea that his film is a Roman Catholic conspiracy to lead us into popery.
That statement is not even worthy to reply to in that it shows the reviewer apparently has not seen the movie nor does he know what he is talking about. Gnostics would be upset at the resurrection scene in the Passion. Diane, I loved it better the second time also and this is a must have when it comes out on DVD. I wish those who attack the movie would go and see it first. Every where I go people are talking about this movie and the "Marian theology" that is supposely causing all of us to run to Rome is only noticeble if you are looking for it. I quess if you were looking for Methodist theology in it you would find it too.
Frog, Mary was not shown as to go through equal suffering as Jesus, that's just simply not true. How exactly do people think things really happened? Do you think Mary was perfectly ok with watching her Son go through this??? This movie was very obvious in making sure everyone knew it was the sacrifice of JESUS not of Mary. I didn't see Mary anywhere with Jesus when he was in the garden being tempted by satan and praying.
Spirit and Truth
New Member
Sorry to say, that this website:
http://watch.pair.com/passion.html
Is quite weak, and has some conspiracy theory sounding assertions. This site:
http://www.SeekGod.ca/topicmovie.htm
seems to have done their homework and is footnoted.
This site, which is run by a former Catholic priest is good also:
http://www.bereanbeacon.org
http://watch.pair.com/passion.html
Is quite weak, and has some conspiracy theory sounding assertions. This site:
http://www.SeekGod.ca/topicmovie.htm
seems to have done their homework and is footnoted.
This site, which is run by a former Catholic priest is good also:
http://www.bereanbeacon.org