savedbymercy
New Member
dw
Deal with the Truth within the context I posted..
Deal with the Truth within the context I posted..
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Reconciled while enemies
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Dr. Walter
New Member
dw
Deal with the Truth within the context I posted..
I already have! He is addressing first century Christians in the city of Rome, all of whom were justified by faith AFTER the cross, not before the cross. The proof of God's unconditional love is that the Cross preceded their conversion and was the provision for their justification by faith.
Second, the term "life" is used in contrast to "death" of Christ and both have reference to basis of justification by faith which is still the CONTEXT and both provide proof of God's unconditional love in securing final salvation or glorification. The "Life" of Christ is further used as the proof in Romans 5:12-19 as it was his LIFE of "obedience" that is substituted for the life of the elect and which satisfies God's demands for righteousness. This is the basis of substitution by representation by "one man" and that substitution is the "good news" of the gospel by which we are justified by faith.
Romans 5:10 has nothing to do with your interpretation of it, just as your intepretation has nothing to do with the immediate context wherein it is found. This is your standard proof texting out of context mentality in order to defend the indefensible. The immediate context concerns the benefits of justification by faith and has nothing to do with eternal justification.
savedbymercy
New Member
dw
No you have not. Also, the book of Romans, as any other book of the bible , though it was written to 1 st century Christians in Rome in particular, it was also written to the Church in General. These epistles would be circulated .
Paul says He was writing to Rom 1:6-7
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The believers in Rome were not exclusively without exception the called of Jesus Christ, what about the believers in Corinth ? Where they called of Jesus Christ ? Lets see 1 Cor 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Also Paul calls them the Beloved of God ! Are the first century believers of rome the only ones whom Paul ever addresses as the Beloved of God ? Lets see 2 Thess 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
What about called to be saints in Rom 1:7 ? Are the roman belivers exclusively the only ones Paul says that to ? What about the Corinthians 1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
And finally, do you think that the only ones reconciled to God while being enemies, by the death of His Son, were the Roman believers of the first century ? Of course not, everyone Christ died for was reconciled to God, the whole Church that He gave Himself for Eph 5:25
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
So you screaming context is just a ploy to divert from the Truth of what is specifically stated in the context. The context detracts nothing from the point conveyed in Rom 5:10, so either deal with the point or just leave it alone and stop crying fire where there is no fire..
I already have!
No you have not. Also, the book of Romans, as any other book of the bible , though it was written to 1 st century Christians in Rome in particular, it was also written to the Church in General. These epistles would be circulated .
Paul says He was writing to Rom 1:6-7
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The believers in Rome were not exclusively without exception the called of Jesus Christ, what about the believers in Corinth ? Where they called of Jesus Christ ? Lets see 1 Cor 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Also Paul calls them the Beloved of God ! Are the first century believers of rome the only ones whom Paul ever addresses as the Beloved of God ? Lets see 2 Thess 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
What about called to be saints in Rom 1:7 ? Are the roman belivers exclusively the only ones Paul says that to ? What about the Corinthians 1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
And finally, do you think that the only ones reconciled to God while being enemies, by the death of His Son, were the Roman believers of the first century ? Of course not, everyone Christ died for was reconciled to God, the whole Church that He gave Himself for Eph 5:25
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
So you screaming context is just a ploy to divert from the Truth of what is specifically stated in the context. The context detracts nothing from the point conveyed in Rom 5:10, so either deal with the point or just leave it alone and stop crying fire where there is no fire..
Dr. Walter
New Member
Nobody said the general principles are not applicable to all Christians in all ages. However, when it comes to contextual time characteristics found in the text you cannot apply it to all the elect in all ages.
For example, the phrase "when WE were yet enemies Christ died for us" cannot be applied to Pre-cross elect because they were enemies BEFORE Christ died on the cross.
Neither can you twist this text to make Paul mean he is referring to Christ's death before the world began as he bluntly denies this is his meaning when he says:
6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
So your interpretation is simply wrong!
For example, the phrase "when WE were yet enemies Christ died for us" cannot be applied to Pre-cross elect because they were enemies BEFORE Christ died on the cross.
Neither can you twist this text to make Paul mean he is referring to Christ's death before the world began as he bluntly denies this is his meaning when he says:
6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
So your interpretation is simply wrong!
dw
No you have not. Also, the book of Romans, as any other book of the bible , though it was written to 1 st century Christians in Rome in particular, it was also written to the Church in General. These epistles would be circulated .
Paul says He was writing to Rom 1:6-7
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The believers in Rome were not exclusively without exception the called of Jesus Christ, what about the believers in Corinth ? Where they called of Jesus Christ ? Lets see 1 Cor 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Also Paul calls them the Beloved of God ! Are the first century believers of rome the only ones whom Paul ever addresses as the Beloved of God ? Lets see 2 Thess 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
What about called to be saints in Rom 1:7 ? Are the roman belivers exclusively the only ones Paul says that to ? What about the Corinthians 1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
And finally, do you think that the only ones reconciled to God while being enemies, by the death of His Son, were the Roman believers of the first century ? Of course not, everyone Christ died for was reconciled to God, the whole Church that He gave Himself for Eph 5:25
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
So you screaming context is just a ploy to divert from the Truth of what is specifically stated in the context. The context detracts nothing from the point conveyed in Rom 5:10, so either deal with the point or just leave it alone and stop crying fire where there is no fire..
savedbymercy
New Member
dw
Then stop trying to be impressive and always crying context as though the context changes them meaning of individual truths within a given context.
When Paul wrote Romans Chapter 3 in describing the depravity of man Rom 3:10-18
He used scriptures from all over the OT from different context. Some from Psalms, Proverbs, Isa and etc.. So hollering and screaming context is not necessary al The time. Its just a diversion for those who are incompetent.
Now deal with the Truth of Rom 5:10 or leave it alone..
Nobody said the general principles are not applicable to all Christians in all ages.
Then stop trying to be impressive and always crying context as though the context changes them meaning of individual truths within a given context.
When Paul wrote Romans Chapter 3 in describing the depravity of man Rom 3:10-18
He used scriptures from all over the OT from different context. Some from Psalms, Proverbs, Isa and etc.. So hollering and screaming context is not necessary al The time. Its just a diversion for those who are incompetent.
Now deal with the Truth of Rom 5:10 or leave it alone..
savedbymercy
New Member
dw
Lol, I cannot believe this lame weak comment. Rom 5:10 says that those Christ died for, that they were reconciled to God by His Death WHILE they were enemies. Now whats the big difference in being enemies by nature and ungodly by nature ? NOTHING !
Neither can you twist this text to make Paul mean he is referring to Christ's death before the world began as he bluntly denies this is his meaning when he says:
6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
So your interpretation is simply wrong!
Lol, I cannot believe this lame weak comment. Rom 5:10 says that those Christ died for, that they were reconciled to God by His Death WHILE they were enemies. Now whats the big difference in being enemies by nature and ungodly by nature ? NOTHING !
Dr. Walter
New Member
Why in the world don't you read the rest of my post and deal with the answer I gave you?????????
dw
Then stop trying to be impressive and always crying context as though the context changes them meaning of individual truths within a given context.
When Paul wrote Romans Chapter 3 in describing the depravity of man Rom 3:10-18
He used scriptures from all over the OT from different context. Some from Psalms, Proverbs, Isa and etc.. So hollering and screaming context is not necessary al The time. Its just a diversion for those who are incompetent.
Now deal with the Truth of Rom 5:10 or leave it alone..
Dr. Walter
New Member
dw
Lol, I cannot believe this lame weak comment. Rom 5:10 says that those Christ died for, that they were reconciled to God by His Death WHILE they were enemies. Now whats the big difference in being enemies by nature and ungodly by nature ? NOTHING !
I gave you the answer! They were enemeis in their unregenerate state BEFORE being JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. He died "in DUE TIME"! What is it that you don't understand about those two statements? Neither statement refers to eternity past - zilch, nada, none!
savedbymercy
New Member
The word of reconciliation !
2 Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The word of reconciliation is another way of saying Preaching the Gospel of God's Grace !
Did you know that even though all men that are born sinners, and by nature children of wrath, and at enmity with God in unbelief, that some of these men are born under God's Favour ? Well its True, because every person that Jesus Christ died for, in the place of, have been reconciled to God by His Death for them ! Notice Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Notice what Paul writes here, referring to the we ! Who are the we that Paul obviously is identifying himself with ?
Lets look at the beginning of the Epistle to find out Rom 1:7
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
He is addressing the Beloved of God, called to be Saints, or Believers. They are the Called, the word here for called is: kletos
called, invited (to a banquet)
a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ
b) called to (the discharge of) some office
1) divinely selected and appointed
This calling is to a divinely selected group of People who have been appointed to Salvation through Jesus Christ.
Its the same word used in vs Rom 1:1 for Paul being called to be an Apostle vs Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Thats why Paul says we in Rom 5:10
Also the same word called is used in Rom 8:28
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
So thats the we to whom Paul was referring to in Rom 5:10 stating, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son. Now what does this word reconciled mean ? It is the greek word katallassō:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favour
Reconciled means to have been received into the Favour of someone with whom they previously were at variance with, this One Being God.
But now, by and through The Death of God's Son, all reasons for contention, disharmony,alienation have been removed, and God has received them into His Favour. In His Favour is Life says the psalmist in Ps 30:5
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
Prov 8:35
For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Everyone whom Christ by His Death has reconciled to God has found Favour with the LORD, which effects Life, both Spiritual and Eternal.
Now, those whom Christ died for, even while they are unbelievers, have this Favour with God, but not by reason of anything they did, which is obvious since they have it while in a state of enmity or being enemies with God. This is the word of reconciliation !
2 Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The word of reconciliation is another way of saying Preaching the Gospel of God's Grace !
Did you know that even though all men that are born sinners, and by nature children of wrath, and at enmity with God in unbelief, that some of these men are born under God's Favour ? Well its True, because every person that Jesus Christ died for, in the place of, have been reconciled to God by His Death for them ! Notice Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Notice what Paul writes here, referring to the we ! Who are the we that Paul obviously is identifying himself with ?
Lets look at the beginning of the Epistle to find out Rom 1:7
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
He is addressing the Beloved of God, called to be Saints, or Believers. They are the Called, the word here for called is: kletos
called, invited (to a banquet)
a) invited (by God in the proclamation of the Gospel) to obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom through Christ
b) called to (the discharge of) some office
1) divinely selected and appointed
This calling is to a divinely selected group of People who have been appointed to Salvation through Jesus Christ.
Its the same word used in vs Rom 1:1 for Paul being called to be an Apostle vs Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Thats why Paul says we in Rom 5:10
Also the same word called is used in Rom 8:28
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
So thats the we to whom Paul was referring to in Rom 5:10 stating, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the Death of His Son. Now what does this word reconciled mean ? It is the greek word katallassō:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favour
Reconciled means to have been received into the Favour of someone with whom they previously were at variance with, this One Being God.
But now, by and through The Death of God's Son, all reasons for contention, disharmony,alienation have been removed, and God has received them into His Favour. In His Favour is Life says the psalmist in Ps 30:5
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
Prov 8:35
For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Everyone whom Christ by His Death has reconciled to God has found Favour with the LORD, which effects Life, both Spiritual and Eternal.
Now, those whom Christ died for, even while they are unbelievers, have this Favour with God, but not by reason of anything they did, which is obvious since they have it while in a state of enmity or being enemies with God. This is the word of reconciliation !
savedbymercy
New Member
Don't be deceived !
Now we are deceived if we think that Rom 5:10 or 2 Cor 5:18-19 is teaching that the whole world of men without exception has been reconciled [not potentially or provisionally] for this simply is not so, because as Rom 5:10 promises, all those who are reconciled to God by the death of His Son, while they are enemies [unbelievers] they SHALL be saved by His Life ! Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That is they shall be converted or saved experientially by His resurrected Life and present intercession ! Heb 7:25
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Now unless you believe the lie of absolute universalism, that God saves all mankind without exception, then it should be quite clear that all men without exception were not reconciled to God by the death of Christ !
Now we are deceived if we think that Rom 5:10 or 2 Cor 5:18-19 is teaching that the whole world of men without exception has been reconciled [not potentially or provisionally] for this simply is not so, because as Rom 5:10 promises, all those who are reconciled to God by the death of His Son, while they are enemies [unbelievers] they SHALL be saved by His Life ! Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
That is they shall be converted or saved experientially by His resurrected Life and present intercession ! Heb 7:25
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Now unless you believe the lie of absolute universalism, that God saves all mankind without exception, then it should be quite clear that all men without exception were not reconciled to God by the death of Christ !
savedbymercy
New Member
The being reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, even while being enemies and alienated, yet by that same death, He brings about a change in those that have already been objectively reconciled by His death, that they are changed from being alienated and His enemies by nature, into fellowship and communion with God and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ [1 Cor 1:9;1 Jn 1:3]
We know this by Col 1:21-22
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Where Paul states, that were sometime [formerly] alienated and enemies in our mind by wicked works [ Rom 5:10a], yet now, has He reconciled or changed you ! How ? In the body of His flesh [ His Incarnation] through Death, that is by His obedience unto death, for He was put to death in the flesh as per 1 Pet 3:18 and this in order to:
to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now all this was accomplished and part of the Reconciliation by His Death !
We know this by Col 1:21-22
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Where Paul states, that were sometime [formerly] alienated and enemies in our mind by wicked works [ Rom 5:10a], yet now, has He reconciled or changed you ! How ? In the body of His flesh [ His Incarnation] through Death, that is by His obedience unto death, for He was put to death in the flesh as per 1 Pet 3:18 and this in order to:
to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now all this was accomplished and part of the Reconciliation by His Death !
Dr. Walter
New Member
The being reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, even while being enemies and alienated, yet by that same death, He brings about a change in those that have already been objectively reconciled by His death, that they are changed from being alienated and His enemies by nature, into fellowship and communion with God and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ [1 Cor 1:9;1 Jn 1:3]
We know this by Col 1:21-22
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Where Paul states, that were sometime [formerly] alienated and enemies in our mind by wicked works [ Rom 5:10a], yet now, has He reconciled or changed you ! How ? In the body of His flesh [ His Incarnation] through Death, that is by His obedience unto death, for He was put to death in the flesh as per 1 Pet 3:18 and this in order to:
to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now all this was accomplished and part of the Reconciliation by His Death !
It is your interpretation of the very texts we are challenging that you repeatedly use to defend interpretations of other texts - circle reasoning. In essence you are saying 2 Cor. 5:21-22 must mean your interpretation. Then if we challenge your interpretation by other scriptures you respond by demanding those other scriptures must harmonize with your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 5:12-22 because your interpretation of 2 Cor. 5:21-22 is true. That is circle reasoning.
You cannot use your interpretation of a text as PROOF that another text must be interpreted according to YOUR INTEPRETATION of the text that is being challenged - that is circule reasoning.
What if you challenged my interpretation of Romans 8:30 by other scriptures you thought was contradictory to my interpretation of Romans 8:30, and I replied by demanding those other scriptures must mean something else BECAUSE they would contradict my interpretation of Romans 8:30. Hence, I have made my interpretation of Romans 8:30 IMPOSSIBLE to refute because I interpret every thing else that opposes it by my Romans 8:30 interpretation.
That is exactly the way you operate!
savedbymercy
New Member
It is your interpretation of the very texts we are challenging that you repeatedly use to defend interpretations of other texts - circle reasoning. In essence you are saying 2 Cor. 5:21-22 must mean your interpretation. Then if we challenge your interpretation by other scriptures you respond by demanding those other scriptures must harmonize with your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 5:12-22 because your interpretation of 2 Cor. 5:21-22 is true. That is circle reasoning.
You cannot use your interpretation of a text as PROOF that another text must be interpreted according to YOUR INTEPRETATION of the text that is being challenged - that is circule reasoning.
What if you challenged my interpretation of Romans 8:30 by other scriptures you thought was contradictory to my interpretation of Romans 8:30, and I replied by demanding those other scriptures must mean something else BECAUSE they would contradict my interpretation of Romans 8:30. Hence, I have made my interpretation of Romans 8:30 IMPOSSIBLE to refute because I interpret every thing else that opposes it by my Romans 8:30 interpretation.
That is exactly the way you operate!
Way to run from what has been posted in post 71 ! You have not confronted one thing in that post, just mouthing off.
Dr. Walter
New Member
Way to run from what has been posted in post 71 ! You have not confronted one thing in that post, just mouthing off.
Running is your mode of operation. Every text you have provided I have dealt with contextually but instead of dealing with the contextual evidence that contradicts your interpretation of that text, you run to other proof texts and so there is no end of your running. So why should I bother answering a text when you just run from them.
savedbymercy
New Member
The Grace of being reconciled !
Many in organized religion today cannot receive the biblical teaching of reconciliation by the Death of Christ ! This reconciliation is real before God, even though and while we are enemies and unbelievers,if we be one of the many that Christ died for. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul teaches that believers, before coming believers, and while yet enemies by nature, in their unregenerated state, while even in unbelief, that they had been reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !
The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour
Those whom Christ died for have been received into the Favour of God, based solely upon His Death. Not because of their faith, or their repentance, because they were still enemies in their minds by wicked works, but even still, because of the blood of Christ they were in God's Favour. Now to be in God's Favour at least three things must be True ! First thing is that God must be propitiated against ones sins. God's wrath and Justice must be satisfied against any individual or individuals who are received into His Favour.
Secondly, those who are received into God's Favour must have all their sins forgiven, God cannot have any charges of iniquity against them or charged to them Rom 4:7-8
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Thirdly, those who are received into God's Favour must be Righteous, they must have a Righteousness that God delights in ! Ps 11:7
For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
God is well pleased with His Son's Righteousness, and it is this Righteousness that views them in for whom Christ died, its a imputed Righteousness Rom 4:6
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Now, all these things must be True in God's Perspective to be reconciled to Him and received into His Favour ! And they all are True solely based upon the Death of God's Son, even while the sinners themselves are still dead in trespasses and sins and enemies to God ! Oh what Grace !
Many in organized religion today cannot receive the biblical teaching of reconciliation by the Death of Christ ! This reconciliation is real before God, even though and while we are enemies and unbelievers,if we be one of the many that Christ died for. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul teaches that believers, before coming believers, and while yet enemies by nature, in their unregenerated state, while even in unbelief, that they had been reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !
The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour
Those whom Christ died for have been received into the Favour of God, based solely upon His Death. Not because of their faith, or their repentance, because they were still enemies in their minds by wicked works, but even still, because of the blood of Christ they were in God's Favour. Now to be in God's Favour at least three things must be True ! First thing is that God must be propitiated against ones sins. God's wrath and Justice must be satisfied against any individual or individuals who are received into His Favour.
Secondly, those who are received into God's Favour must have all their sins forgiven, God cannot have any charges of iniquity against them or charged to them Rom 4:7-8
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Thirdly, those who are received into God's Favour must be Righteous, they must have a Righteousness that God delights in ! Ps 11:7
For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
God is well pleased with His Son's Righteousness, and it is this Righteousness that views them in for whom Christ died, its a imputed Righteousness Rom 4:6
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Now, all these things must be True in God's Perspective to be reconciled to Him and received into His Favour ! And they all are True solely based upon the Death of God's Son, even while the sinners themselves are still dead in trespasses and sins and enemies to God ! Oh what Grace !
savedbymercy
New Member
Never under God's Judicial wrath !
The Elect, or those Christ died for, for they are the same characters, while being born sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, by nature children of wrath as others [non elect] yet they are never under God's wrath, in fact they are in God's Favor because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul says to believers, He says, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God ! How ? Not by Faith, because He is referring to the time before they believed when they were enemies by nature, but it was by the Death of Christ, God's Son.
Now Paul says when we were enemies. In the greek " were enemies is in the present tense" so paul was stating, while we were being enemies which word is echthros and means:
hated, odious, hateful
2) hostile, hating, and opposing another
a) used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
1) opposing (God) in the mind
While we were being hateful, opposing God in the mind, hostile, during all that, Paul said that we were reconciled to God.
Now the word reconciled here in the greek is in the second aorist tense [simple past] and passive voice, we had been reconciled to God. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favour
It means as you can see to be received into favor.
So, while the elect were in themselves hateful towards God, opposing God in their minds as stated here Col 1:21, They had already been received into God's Favor, reconciled, by Christ Death. Now understand, because the Law had been broken, the relationship between God the Judge, and His guilty [ in themselves] creatures had been disrupted, and they were alienated, because of sin, But Christ, by His Cross, took away the enmity between God the Judge and the guilty parties, and gave them a right standing with God the Judge. All this happened without the elect knowing a thing about it. So their reconciliation, right standing with God[Justification] is solely due or based upon the Cross of His Son ! Even while they are in nature, God's enemies, God does not have one charge against them, they have a clean slate before God's Justice, and in fact, God for His Son's sake must give them Life .
The Elect, or those Christ died for, for they are the same characters, while being born sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, by nature children of wrath as others [non elect] yet they are never under God's wrath, in fact they are in God's Favor because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul says to believers, He says, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God ! How ? Not by Faith, because He is referring to the time before they believed when they were enemies by nature, but it was by the Death of Christ, God's Son.
Now Paul says when we were enemies. In the greek " were enemies is in the present tense" so paul was stating, while we were being enemies which word is echthros and means:
hated, odious, hateful
2) hostile, hating, and opposing another
a) used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
1) opposing (God) in the mind
While we were being hateful, opposing God in the mind, hostile, during all that, Paul said that we were reconciled to God.
Now the word reconciled here in the greek is in the second aorist tense [simple past] and passive voice, we had been reconciled to God. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favour
It means as you can see to be received into favor.
So, while the elect were in themselves hateful towards God, opposing God in their minds as stated here Col 1:21, They had already been received into God's Favor, reconciled, by Christ Death. Now understand, because the Law had been broken, the relationship between God the Judge, and His guilty [ in themselves] creatures had been disrupted, and they were alienated, because of sin, But Christ, by His Cross, took away the enmity between God the Judge and the guilty parties, and gave them a right standing with God the Judge. All this happened without the elect knowing a thing about it. So their reconciliation, right standing with God[Justification] is solely due or based upon the Cross of His Son ! Even while they are in nature, God's enemies, God does not have one charge against them, they have a clean slate before God's Justice, and in fact, God for His Son's sake must give them Life .
savedbymercy
New Member
If Christ died for you, you shall be saved !
The Gospel doctrine of Reconciliation makes it clear that everyone Christ died for shall be saved ! Period !
Don't take my word, but hear ye the word of the Lord ! Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now what can be more plainer than that ? Paul says, that those Christ died for, where reconciled to God how ? Did he write by our Faith ? Did he write by our repentance ? What about by our water baptism ? No sir, he writes that they were reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !!!
Now, what is the sure promise of the word of Truth regarding those reconciled by the Death of Christ ? " We shall be saved by His Life"
Now if this does not ensure Salvation for everyone Christ died for, I do not know what does, and Paul is found a false witness !
Consequently, those who will not be saved by His Life, the conclusion must be that Christ did not die for them..
The Gospel doctrine of Reconciliation makes it clear that everyone Christ died for shall be saved ! Period !
Don't take my word, but hear ye the word of the Lord ! Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now what can be more plainer than that ? Paul says, that those Christ died for, where reconciled to God how ? Did he write by our Faith ? Did he write by our repentance ? What about by our water baptism ? No sir, he writes that they were reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !!!
Now, what is the sure promise of the word of Truth regarding those reconciled by the Death of Christ ? " We shall be saved by His Life"
Now if this does not ensure Salvation for everyone Christ died for, I do not know what does, and Paul is found a false witness !
Consequently, those who will not be saved by His Life, the conclusion must be that Christ did not die for them..
savedbymercy
New Member
To be reconciled means sure Salvation !
That reconciliation means salvation. Paul says in 2 Cor 5:18
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Two Things are True here ! #1 God had reconciled him to Himself! How ? by Jesus Christ ! That simply means by His Finished Work of the Cross. As a result, Paul says and He God has # 2 given to him or us the Ministry of reconciliation, meaning the Apostles !
All this is of God, not man's freewill decision, this is all of God's outworking of His Eternal Purpose, Him directing things according to His good pleasure !
That reconciliation means salvation. Paul says in 2 Cor 5:18
18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
Two Things are True here ! #1 God had reconciled him to Himself! How ? by Jesus Christ ! That simply means by His Finished Work of the Cross. As a result, Paul says and He God has # 2 given to him or us the Ministry of reconciliation, meaning the Apostles !
All this is of God, not man's freewill decision, this is all of God's outworking of His Eternal Purpose, Him directing things according to His good pleasure !
savedbymercy
New Member
The Grace of being reconciled !
Many in organized religion today cannot receive the biblical teaching of reconciliation by the Death of Christ ! This reconciliation is real before God, even though and while we are enemies and unbelievers,if we be one of the many that Christ died for. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul teaches that believers, before coming believers, and while yet enemies by nature, in their unregenerated state, while even in unbelief, that they had been reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !
The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour
Those whom Christ died for have been received into the Favour of God, based solely upon His Death. Not because of their faith, or their repentance, because they were still enemies in their minds by wicked works, but even still, because of the blood of Christ they were in God's Favour. Now to be in God's Favour at least three things must be True ! First thing is that God must be propitiated against ones sins. God's wrath and Justice must be satisfied against any individual or individuals who are received into His Favour.
Secondly, those who are received into God's Favour must have all their sins forgiven, God cannot have any charges of iniquity against them or charged to them Rom 4:7-8
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Thirdly, those who are received into God's Favour must be Righteous, they must have a Righteousness that God delights in ! Ps 11:7
For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
God is well pleased with His Son's Righteousness, and it is this Righteousness that views them in for whom Christ died, its a imputed Righteousness Rom 4:6
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Now, all these things must be True in God's Perspective to be reconciled to Him and received into His Favour ! And they all are True solely based upon the Death of God's Son, even while the sinners themselves are still dead in trespasses and sins and enemies to God ! Oh what Grace !
Many in organized religion today cannot receive the biblical teaching of reconciliation by the Death of Christ ! This reconciliation is real before God, even though and while we are enemies and unbelievers,if we be one of the many that Christ died for. Rom 5:10
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul teaches that believers, before coming believers, and while yet enemies by nature, in their unregenerated state, while even in unbelief, that they had been reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !
The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
to receive one into favour
Those whom Christ died for have been received into the Favour of God, based solely upon His Death. Not because of their faith, or their repentance, because they were still enemies in their minds by wicked works, but even still, because of the blood of Christ they were in God's Favour. Now to be in God's Favour at least three things must be True ! First thing is that God must be propitiated against ones sins. God's wrath and Justice must be satisfied against any individual or individuals who are received into His Favour.
Secondly, those who are received into God's Favour must have all their sins forgiven, God cannot have any charges of iniquity against them or charged to them Rom 4:7-8
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Thirdly, those who are received into God's Favour must be Righteous, they must have a Righteousness that God delights in ! Ps 11:7
For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
God is well pleased with His Son's Righteousness, and it is this Righteousness that views them in for whom Christ died, its a imputed Righteousness Rom 4:6
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Now, all these things must be True in God's Perspective to be reconciled to Him and received into His Favour ! And they all are True solely based upon the Death of God's Son, even while the sinners themselves are still dead in trespasses and sins and enemies to God ! Oh what Grace !
savedbymercy
New Member
Never under God's Judicial wrath !
The Elect, or those Christ died for, for they are the same characters, while being born sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, by nature children of wrath as others [non elect] yet they are never under God's wrath, in fact they are in God's Favor because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul says to believers, He says, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God ! How ? Not by Faith, because He is referring to the time before they believed when they were enemies by nature, but it was by the Death of Christ, God's Son.
Now Paul says when we were enemies. In the greek " were enemies is in the present tense" so paul was stating, while we were being enemies which word is echthros and means:
hated, odious, hateful
2) hostile, hating, and opposing another
a) used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
1) opposing (God) in the mind
While we were being hateful, opposing God in the mind, hostile, during all that, Paul said that we were reconciled to God.
Now the word reconciled here in the greek is in the second aorist tense [simple past] and passive voice, we had been reconciled to God. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favour
It means as you can see to be received into favor.
So, while the elect were in themselves hateful towards God, opposing God in their minds as stated here Col 1:21, They had already been received into God's Favor, reconciled, by Christ Death. Now understand, because the Law had been broken, the relationship between God the Judge, and His guilty [ in themselves] creatures had been disrupted, and they were alienated, because of sin, But Christ, by His Cross, took away the enmity between God the Judge and the guilty parties, and gave them a right standing with God the Judge. All this happened without the elect knowing a thing about it. So their reconciliation, right standing with God[Justification] is solely due or based upon the Cross of His Son ! Even while they are in nature, God's enemies, God does not have one charge against them, they have a clean slate before God's Justice, and in fact, God for His Son's sake must give them Life .
The Elect, or those Christ died for, for they are the same characters, while being born sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, by nature children of wrath as others [non elect] yet they are never under God's wrath, in fact they are in God's Favor because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Paul says to believers, He says, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God ! How ? Not by Faith, because He is referring to the time before they believed when they were enemies by nature, but it was by the Death of Christ, God's Son.
Now Paul says when we were enemies. In the greek " were enemies is in the present tense" so paul was stating, while we were being enemies which word is echthros and means:
hated, odious, hateful
2) hostile, hating, and opposing another
a) used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
1) opposing (God) in the mind
While we were being hateful, opposing God in the mind, hostile, during all that, Paul said that we were reconciled to God.
Now the word reconciled here in the greek is in the second aorist tense [simple past] and passive voice, we had been reconciled to God. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō:
to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)
b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one
c) to receive one into favour
It means as you can see to be received into favor.
So, while the elect were in themselves hateful towards God, opposing God in their minds as stated here Col 1:21, They had already been received into God's Favor, reconciled, by Christ Death. Now understand, because the Law had been broken, the relationship between God the Judge, and His guilty [ in themselves] creatures had been disrupted, and they were alienated, because of sin, But Christ, by His Cross, took away the enmity between God the Judge and the guilty parties, and gave them a right standing with God the Judge. All this happened without the elect knowing a thing about it. So their reconciliation, right standing with God[Justification] is solely due or based upon the Cross of His Son ! Even while they are in nature, God's enemies, God does not have one charge against them, they have a clean slate before God's Justice, and in fact, God for His Son's sake must give them Life .
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