Reconciled while enemies

[savedbymercy]

The Grace of being reconciled !



Many in organized religion today cannot receive the biblical teaching of reconciliation by the Death of Christ ! This reconciliation is real before God, even though and while we are enemies and unbelievers,if we be one of the many that Christ died for. Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul teaches that believers, before coming believers, and while yet enemies by nature, in their unregenerated state, while even in unbelief, that they had been reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !

The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

to reconcile (those who are at variance)

return to favour with, be reconciled to one

to receive one into favour

Those whom Christ died for have been received into the Favour of God, based solely upon His Death. Not because of their faith, or their repentance, because they were still enemies in their minds by wicked works, but even still, because of the blood of Christ they were in God's Favour. Now to be in God's Favour at least three things must be True ! First thing is that God must be propitiated against ones sins. God's wrath and Justice must be satisfied against any individual or individuals who are received into His Favour.

Secondly, those who are received into God's Favour must have all their sins forgiven, God cannot have any charges of iniquity against them or charged to them Rom 4:7-8

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Thirdly, those who are received into God's Favour must be Righteous, they must have a Righteousness that God delights in ! Ps 11:7

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

God is well pleased with His Son's Righteousness, and it is this Righteousness that He views them in for whom Christ died, its a imputed Righteousness Rom 4:6

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Now, all these things must be True in God's Perspective to be reconciled to Him and received into His Favour ! And they all are True solely based upon the Death of God's Son, even while the sinners themselves are still dead in trespasses and sins and enemies to God ! Oh what Grace !

 

[savedbymercy]

Never under God's Judicial wrath !



The Elect, or those Christ died for, for they are the same characters, while being born sinners, dead in trespasses and sins, by nature children of wrath as others [non elect] yet they are never under God's wrath, in fact they are in God's Favor because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of God's Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Paul says to believers, He says, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God ! How ? Not by Faith, because He is referring to the time before they believed when they were enemies by nature, but it was by the Death of Christ, God's Son.

Now Paul says when we were enemies. In the greek " were enemies is in the present tense" so paul was stating, while we were being enemies which word is echthros and means:

hated, odious, hateful

2) hostile, hating, and opposing another

a) used of men as at enmity with God by their sin

1) opposing (God) in the mind

While we were being hateful, opposing God in the mind, hostile, during all that, Paul said that we were reconciled to God.

Now the word reconciled here in the greek is in the second aorist tense [simple past] and passive voice, we had been reconciled to God. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō:


to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

It means as you can see to be received into favor.

So, while the elect were in themselves hateful towards God, opposing God in their minds as stated here Col 1:21, They had already been received into God's Favor, reconciled, by Christ Death. Now understand, because the Law had been broken, the relationship between God the Judge, and His guilty [ in themselves] creatures had been disrupted, and they were alienated, because of sin, But Christ, by His Cross, took away the enmity between God the Judge and the guilty parties, and gave them a right standing with God the Judge. All this happened without the elect knowing a thing about it. So their reconciliation, right standing with God[Justification] is solely due or based upon the Cross of His Son ! Even while they are in nature, God's enemies, God does not have one charge against them, they have a clean slate before God's Justice, and in fact, God for His Son's sake must give them Life .

 

[billwald]

>Many in organized religion today cannot receive the biblical teaching of reconciliation by the Death of Christ

Receive? Do you talk in "KJV-speak" at family birthday parties?

 

[savedbymercy]

If Christ died for you, you shall be saved ! -

The Gospel doctrine of Reconciliation makes it clear that everyone Christ died for shall be saved ! Period !

Don't take my word, but hear ye the word of the Lord ! Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now what can be more plainer than that ? Paul says, that those Christ died for, where reconciled to God how ? Did he write by our Faith ? Did he write by our repentance ? What about by our water baptism ? No sir, he writes that they were reconciled to God BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON !!!

Now, what is the sure promise of the word of Truth regarding those Reconciled by the Death of Christ ? " We shall be saved by His Life"

Now if this does not ensure Salvation for everyone Christ died for, I do not know what does, and Paul is found a false witness !

Consequently, those who will not be saved by His Life, the conclusion must be that Christ did not die for them..

 

[savedbymercy]

To be reconciled means sure Salvation !


That reconciliation means salvation. Paul says in 2 Cor 5:18

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Two Things are True here ! #1 God had reconciled him to Himself! How ? by Jesus Christ ! That simply means by His Finished Work of the Cross. As a result, Paul says and He God has # 2 given to him or us the Ministry of reconciliation, meaning the Apostles !

All this is of God, not man's freewill decision, this is all of God's outworking of His Eternal Purpose, Him directing things according to His good pleasure !

 

[billwald]

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Which of the things John wrote in 1 John is he referring to?

The statement infers that some people who may not believe in . . . may have eternal life but may not (will not) know it. This conclusion is consistent with your thread.

So how long may a person be reconciled before he knows he is reconciled? From before the foundation of the universe (but after God's election)? So, if THIS person was hit by a bus while he still thought he was an enemy . . . .

 

[savedbymercy]

So how long may a person be reconciled before he knows he is reconciled?

It could be up until the very twilight of their Life, such as it was with the Thief on the Cross, He was born reconciled to God by the Death of Christ.

 

[billwald]

>>So how long may a person be reconciled before he knows he is reconciled?

>It could be up until the very twilight of their Life, such as it was with the Thief on the Cross, He was born reconciled to God by the Death of Christ.

Agree!

My problem with orthodox Christian theology - Every other religion in the world teaches that God punishes people for not loving (respecting) God and for being a bad neighbor. Christianity teaches that God punishes people for not correctly analyzing the available data . . . being ignorant.

Math is my weakest subject. Long time ago I flunked a course in calculus. Far as I know, the text was without error and the course was correctly taught. If there was a god of mathematics he would send me to Hell for being stupid?

Neal Punt ( see http://www.evangelicalinclusivism.com/ ) has concluded that the null position is "saved" and only those whom the Bible names as reprobate and automatically condemned.

His reasoning is that God doesn't send people to Hell for being ignorant. Any sane person would accept the gospel if he understood the message and the consequences. It is not his fault if it has not been explained in a way that he can understand. God knows what a person would decide if he properly understood the consequences. I think God gives those people a free pass who would accept under those conditions.

 

[savedbymercy]

God Reconciled us by Jesus Christ ! -

2 Cor 5:18

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Who are the US ? It is all believers, the Church ! What is the Ministry of reconciliation ? The answer to that is found in vs 19 " The word of reconciliation"

Now what is the Word of reconciliation ? It is the Gospel. Often times when we discuss the content of the Gospel message, we go to 1 Cor 15:1-4, and rightly so, those words are the Gospel, but not all of it, and even that portion needs to be explained. There is another portion of scripture that also informs us of some of the content of the Gospel, lets look at 2 Cor 5:18-19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The word of reconciliation, now it is important to understand that which Paul states is the word of reconciliation, its content, its message, for this is the Gospel. Now it is prefaced by Paul's declaration of this matter in vs 18 " And all things is of God". This message is not to be corrupted by man's so call freewill, but everything is of of God's doing and accomplishment. Now it is a Gospel Truth, that God hath reconciled us [ The Church] to Himself by Jesus Christ, not a potential reconciliation but an actual one. The word reconciled in vs 18 is the greek word katallassō which means:


to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

And it is the aorist participle denoting past a finished past tense !

GWT:God has done all this. He has restored our relationship with him through Christ, and has given us this ministry of restoring relationships.

This is both objective and subjective reconciliation, both are the Gift of God and accomplished by God through Jesus Christ !

 

[The Biblicist]

Now, what is the sure promise of the word of Truth regarding those Reconciled by the Death of Christ ? " We shall be saved by His Life"

Now if this does not ensure Salvation for everyone Christ died for, I do not know what does, and Paul is found a false witness !

Consequently, those who will not be saved by His Life, the conclusion must be that Christ did not die for them..

So, they are not already saved but "shall be saved by his life"? So, they are not already justified but "shall be justified" (Rom. 4:24-25) if they believe? So they are not already reconciled but shall be reconciled or can you say with Paul:

and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Do not the scriptures teach both objective and subjective reconciliation to God through Christ?

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

So, they are not already saved but "shall be saved by his life"?

Yes, they are already reconciled, and that ensures their New Birth or Regeneration.

The Renewing of the Holy Ghost is also called a saving or being saved. Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,[HOW} by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This saves them from being enemies by nature, and gives them a Nature that now Loves and Fellowships with God.

Now go ahead and deny this also..

 

[The Biblicist]

bib



Yes, they are already reconciled, and that ensures their New Birth or Regeneration.

The Renewing of the Holy Ghost is also called a saving or being saved. Titus 3:5

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,[HOW} by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This saves them from being enemies by nature, and gives them a Nature that now Loves and Fellowships with God.

Now go ahead and deny this also..

Why then does 2 Corinthians 5:18 go on and tell others "be ye reconciled to God" if they were already reconciled to God?

Could it be that both are equally true? There is both objective and subjective reconciliation and they are to be distinguished from each other?

 

[DaChaser1]

Why then does 2 Corinthians 5:18 go on and tell others "be ye reconciled to God" if they were already reconciled to God?

Could it be that both are equally true? There is both objective and subjective reconciliation and they are to be distinguished from each other?

How about that the Cross has a general reconciliation effect, that God uses tjhe Cross and atonement of Christ to have it applied towards creation in general, fully at time the curse on it is lifted , while the atonement of Christ for/on behalf to sinners ONLY applies towards those whom will receive the reconcilliation , The Elect!

God did NOT reconcile all back towards Himself, as that would require all sinners to be able to respond to God now, and ONLY those whom he has elected in Christ can do that!

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

Why then does 2 Corinthians 5:18 go on and tell others "be ye reconciled to God"

See posts 22,28,30 of this Thread !

 

[The Biblicist]

bib



See posts 22,28,30 of this Thread !

Be consistent with what you say you beleive then.

The elect are in need of subjective reconciliation because they are subjectively under condemnation. Why take objective references to deny the subjective reality?????? Both are equally true!

 

[DaChaser1]

Be consistent with what you say you beleive then.

The elect are in need of subjective reconciliation because they are subjectively under condemnation. Why take objective references to deny the subjective reality?????? Both are equally true!

where does the Bible state that God past tense reconciled all persons to Himself?

isn't it truth that ONLY the elect are reconciled by the Cross, by becoming saved by Grace of God via the Cross?

 

[The Biblicist]

Be consistent with what you say you beleive then.

The elect are in need of subjective reconciliation because they are subjectively under condemnation. Why take objective references to deny the subjective reality?????? Both are equally true!

SBG do you beleive the elect are under the wrath of God mentioned in Romans 1:18 and then described in Romans 1:23-31 while in their unregenerated condition?

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:


Or do you disagree with Paul when he said of some of the elect:

9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The objective provision of Christ guaranteed the subjective application thus preventing any eternal consequences of sin would enter into their subjective experience. However, their subjective condition experienced the wrath of God revealed from heaven in the consequences of sin - spiritual death, sickness, immorality, hate, etc. right up to physical death.

 

[DaChaser1]

SBG do you beleive the elect are under the wrath of God mentioned in Romans 1:18 and then described in Romans 1:23-31 while in their unregenerated condition?

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 ¶ Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:


Or do you disagree with Paul when he said of some of the elect:

9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The objective provision of Christ guaranteed the subjective application thus preventing any eternal consequences of sin would enter into their subjective experience. However, their subjective condition experienced the wrath of God revealed from heaven in the consequences of sin - spiritual death, sickness, immorality, hate, etc. right up to physical death.

In the Mind of God, the Elect are 'already in heavenly with Christ" as what God determined to do, by saving out for Jesus the chosen Elect by the Cross,
they will indeed be saved and secured by Christ, so there will be no condemnation for those found to be in Christ, and the lord knows His own!

jesus returns to earth with the Angels and saints, in order to deliver judgement upon the ungodly, NOT those who were saved by the Cross of Christ!

 

[The Biblicist]

where does the Bible state that God past tense reconciled all persons to Himself?

isn't it truth that ONLY the elect are reconciled by the Cross, by becoming saved by Grace of God via the Cross?

Yes, God's eternal purpose is the CAUSE, while the provision of Christ and
the application by the Holy Spirit are both CONSEQUENCES.

God's purpose for the Person and work of Christ is to supply the provision of redemption.

God's purpose for the Person and work of the Holy Spirit is to apply the provision of redemption.

Both the provision and the application are according to God's purpose of election "in Christ."

However, to argue that by ACTUAL APPLICATION we are already redeemed, regenerated, justified, sanctified and glorified before the world began or by the provision of Christ alone is repudiating the very essence of what is the eternal purpose of redemption by its own definition. It is essentially repudiating the doctrine of predestination simply because nothing has to be predestinated if it is already an APPLIED ACCOMPLISHED ACTUALITY!!!

If it is already an applied actuality at the cross then there is no need for predestinating any other application by the Spirit of God. What was "finished" at the cross was the provision God sent Christ to obtain. It was obtained by Christ. However, the application of eternal redemption was not obtained by Christ at the cross because that was not his work to perform but that was the work of the Person of the Holy Spirit.

Hence, you are correct that we are saved by grace through faith via the provision of Jesus Christ. The plan of the Father, the provision by the Son and application by the Spirit is what obtains the reality of salvation. The cause is the Father's purpose; the basis is the Son's provision and the reality is the application by the Holy Spirit consequential to the basis provided by Christ and the purpose of the Father.

It is a unified orderly progressive work of redemption by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit which cannot be split apart and any segement stand alone as already complete redemption when in fact all three aspects are essential to complete redemption.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

SBG do you beleive the elect are under the wrath of God mentioned in Romans 1:18 and then described in Romans 1:23-31 while in their unregenerated condition?

No, The Unregenerated Elect are never under the Wrath of God, for God's Wrath towards them has been propitiated by the Death of His Son !

Also, I have showed you what scripture states about the Elect while they are unregenerated and enemies, they have been reconciled to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.