Reformed Salvation

[Iconoclast]

EVERY human being, from Adam till the last, DESERVES ONLY eternal punishment. Period!

Don't try to make me BLAME God for anything, it is YOUR version of theology, which you claim to be "reformed", that I attack as UNBIBLICAL.

When, for example, Jesus says in John 3:18, "He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God". where is it very clear that those who do not believe will be damned to eternal punishment. It is also clear from this, that Saving Faith cannot be a "gift" given only to the elect, so that they might believe. HOW can God, according to your theology, give the elect Saving Faith, as a GIFT, and thereby they can believe and be saved. And then those He does not give this Faith to, who therefore cannot believe, can be damned, because they were not given this Faith in the first place? It is YOUR theology that makes God to be unjust, and NOT how I read what the Bible is teaching. This is one of the grave errors in YOUR system, on salvation

This is another Post of someone who was sen

was suggesting that God himself is unjust because God doesn't do what this poster believes God Should do

 

[DaveXR650]

If SBG is starting to read Calvin and Watson he might just come around. The one thing I have honestly never heard a Calvinist propose is that there has ever been anyone lost who would have, if given a chance, turn to God on their own. That is constantly charged against Calvinism but I have never come across it taught anywhere.

 

[AustinC]

EVERY human being, from Adam till the last, DESERVES ONLY eternal punishment. Period!

Saving Faith cannot be a "gift" given only to the elect, so that they might believe.
HOW can God, according to your theology, give the elect Saving Faith, as a GIFT, and thereby they can believe and be saved. And then those He does not give this Faith to, who therefore cannot believe, can be damned, because they were not given this Faith in the first place?

How can God???
There is your question. How can God?
God is the Supreme King. He does whatever His law allows. God tells you, point blank, that He is allowed to have mercy upon whom He has mercy and to harden whom He chooses to harden.
Why can you NOT accept that truth? Why do you insist upon judging God for His Supreme Right to choose to whom He will me merciful?
Why is it wrong that in God's mercy He gives a person faith to believe that God has indeed extended mercy to that person? Why is it wrong that to those God does not extend mercy, He does not give them faith to believe something He didn't do for them?
sbg, it seems you are asking God to lie to those who will not believe.

 

[George Antonios]

Yes, I agree being conformed might not point to progressive sanctification, but growing more "Christ-like" and becoming a better servant does fit with scripture. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

What I meant is that being conformed to his image, as the expression is used in the Bible, is a reference to our bodies taking up the physical likeness of Christ's resurrection body.
It is not a reference to spiritual growth.

 

[George Antonios]

How can God???
There is your question. How can God?

That is not an honest rendering of the man's point. He was referring to consistency/justice, not power.
You yourself made the point that God can do only what his law allows.
The man's point was a legal one.

 

[George Antonios]

The 66 Books of the Holy Bible. Not KJVO!

Please don't deflect. What dispensation/age are you quoting from?
There is a verse for every doctrine in the 66 books.

 

[SavedByGrace]

How can God???
There is your question. How can God?
God is the Supreme King. He does whatever His law allows. God tells you, point blank, that He is allowed to have mercy upon whom He has mercy and to harden whom He chooses to harden.
Why can you NOT accept that truth? Why do you insist upon judging God for His Supreme Right to choose to whom He will me merciful?
Why is it wrong that in God's mercy He gives a person faith to believe that God has indeed extended mercy to that person? Why is it wrong that to those God does not extend mercy, He does not give them faith to believe something He didn't do for them?
sbg, it seems you are asking God to lie to those who will not believe.

This is to YOU, as you understand what the Bible says! I am NOT questioning God in any way, so stop inferring these LIES about what I actually say!

You cannot see past your personal theology

 

[SavedByGrace]

If SBG is starting to read Calvin and Watson he might just come around. The one thing I have honestly never heard a Calvinist propose is that there has ever been anyone lost who would have, if given a chance, turn to God on their own. That is constantly charged against Calvinism but I have never come across it taught anywhere.

HaHa!, I DO NOT read these guys. I quote from what they say on this subject, from others online.

I am accused falsely about teaching REPENTANCE as a requirement for salvation. I then post as in the PO, very solid evidence from Reformed theologians, that AGREE with my position. Instead of dealing with the facts as they are, people like @AustinC will always give a whole load of verses, that have ZERO bearing on what the OP says, and still cannot respond to HOW I am wrong, when his OWN theologians actually AGREE with me!

 

[SavedByGrace]

What dispensation/age are you quoting from?

what are you on about? the Bible's Teachings don't change with the "age" that we live in!

 

[AustinC]

This is to YOU, as you understand what the Bible says! I am NOT questioning God in any way, so stop inferring these LIES about what I actually say!

You cannot see past your personal theology

Yes, you are questioning God. You doubt his fairness, you doubt his choices and you doubt his right to show mercy to whom he wills and harden those he chooses. You judge God and you refuse to recognize what you are doing is a sin of which you need to repent.
Scripture reveals this and you fight against God in this matter. Stop fighting. See that God is just and perfect in every choice He makes.
You are wrong.

 

[AustinC]

HaHa!, I DO NOT read these guys. I quote from what they say on this subject, from others online.

I am accused falsely about teaching REPENTANCE as a requirement for salvation. I then post as in the PO, very solid evidence from Reformed theologians, that AGREE with my position. Instead of dealing with the facts as they are, people like @AustinC will always give a whole load of verses, that have ZERO bearing on what the OP says, and still cannot respond to HOW I am wrong, when his OWN theologians actually AGREE with me!

You have literally told us that repentance is required for salvation to happen. There is no false accusation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, you are questioning God. You doubt his fairness, you doubt his choices and you doubt his right to show mercy to whom he wills and harden those he chooses. You judge God and you refuse to recognize what you are doing is a sin of which you need to repent.
Scripture reveals this and you fight against God in this matter. Stop fighting. See that God is just and perfect in every choice He makes.
You are wrong.

WRONG again! It is YOU that I question as YOU don't understand what the Bible says!

 

[SavedByGrace]

You have literally told us that repentance is required for salvation to happen. There is no false accusation.

so has EVERYONE quoted in the OP, and MANY others who are REFORMED, like YOU!

Just accept humbly that YOU are WRONG on this

 

[Yeshua1]

at the end of the day, our very existence on this earth, is a GIFT of God!

I do however believe, that when God created humans, He made them with the ability of repenting and believing. This said, no sinner can, in and of themselves, ever decide to give their lives to Jesus Christ. This is impossible. Faith, says the Bible, comes from hearing of the Gospel Message being preached, and this brings "conviction" in the hears, as we see in Acts chapter 2, when those who heard Peter, were "cut to the heart". I am sure that not every single person who was so convicted, said to the Disciples, "what must we do". In this way, I will agree that Saving Faith is a "Gift" from the Lord, because it is the Lord Who sends out those to preach the Gospel for the salvation of sinners. As Paul says in Romans 2:4

Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

God does the act of regenerating His own unto salvation, as those enabled to do such by the Holy Spirit shall repent, place faith in Lord Jesus to save them!

 

[Yeshua1]

What complete unbiblical NONSENSE!"!! God saves a sinner BEFORE they believe???

This is HERESY!

No, we hold that God chose us in Christ to get saved before we trusted in Him!

 

[DaveXR650]

The reformers taught that repentance is required for salvation. They also taught that it is part of God's grace to us. (We are granted repentance). What they never taught was that repentance (or faith) was something of a meritorious thing that YOU bring to the table on your own.
Different Bible versus and different theologians have differing views on the exact order of salvation but the difference really comes down to one question - do you bring the required repentance or belief to God or is it of God from the start. I find the Calvinistic theology confusing sometimes but I find the Arminian theology flat out wrong and I do fully understand it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

God does the act of regenerating His own unto salvation, as those enabled to do such by the Holy Spirit shall repent, place faith in Lord Jesus to save them!

says you and your theology. the Bible cleraly says in Titus 3:5, that REGENERATION is SALVATION, one and the same thing.

 

[Yeshua1]

And God punishes with eternal damnation, those He did not give this "Gift of faith" to, so that they can believe and be saved? This is what is known as UNBIBLICAL!

ALL deserve eternal Hell, is not God gracious to save any lost sinners then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Well SBG, I wasn't finished. I have spent most of my life not as a Calvinist. I have had people tell me "At least I had sense enough to get saved", I have been "soul winning" with a guy who I saw reach out and grab a prospects hand as he asked him to "take my hand if you accept Jesus", I have heard pastors say to a young person as far as getting saved "they better take care of that", I have been through invitations that were an emotional buildup from largely a patriotic war story or a story about someone's mom. I have been in a Sunday school class where they had a calendar of "spiritual birthdays" where if you ever worried about your salvation all you had to to was look at the chart. I have seen missionaries who literally wept because some tribal elder could not understand the gospel and they personally thought it was their fault that he was going to Hell because they couldn't learn the language before he died. I know a lot of people who went forward years ago, live exactly like the world, no change in their lives and believe their action saved them.

I try to be fair and admit things that I as a person with no formal theological training have difficulty understanding in the Calvinistic system. You then take that and try to sucker punch the Calvinists on here.

Sounds like he is back on the ole "not fair for God not to save all" bandwagon!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you think this is unfair?

Is God unjust if He punishes all who have sinned with eternal damnation?

Would God be unfair if you, a known criminal and breaker of God's law, were judged according to the law of God?

Is God unfair when He grants mercy because His Son paid the penalty of the Law for you, but not for your neighbor?

Do you blame the President of the United States for pardoning some criminals, but not pardoning all criminals?

Think through what you are actually doing when you get upset at the reality that the Sovereign King chooses to be merciful to whom He wills. Why are you offended by the Kings choice? Do you think He is an unfair King?

Why not instead by thankful the Lord did save him!