Reformed V Biblical Salvation

[MB]

To the wrong person

 

[MB]

That has never been God's intention

How do you know God's intentions? are you His confident?.Does God discuss everything He does with you first?If scripture tells you then post the verses
MB

 

[AustinC]

your HATE for the unsaved is so frightening!

Iconoclast shares scripture and you call it "hate for the unsaved."
The universal call does not result in universal salvation. Instead it results in particular salvation to those whom God has made alive.

sbw, you don't seem to hate sin. Nor do you seem to hate the sin of the world. Thus, you don't grasp the need for justice toward law breakers. You seem to think God rejoices and loves lawlessness. You seem to think that God passively puts up a billboard and then sits under a shade tree waiting for the godless. You seem to ignore the biblical teaching of adoption whereby the parent chooses whom he adopts as his child.
You seem to think God is unloving if he doesn't wait for humans to "freely" choose him instead. You cry out WHY, WHY, WHY like an infant toddler having a tantrum and then accuse others of hating those who hate God, our Father.

Instead of asking "why" start asking "for what purpose." For what purpose did God choose his children? The answer is in 2 Corinthians 5.

 

[AustinC]

How do you know God's intentions? are you His confident?.Does God discuss everything He does with you first?If scripture tells you then post the verses
MB

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”
~ Romans 9:8-29

 

[MB]

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Now show me a DEAD man that has the ability to come to Christ?... He must be a changed man and he didn't change himself... Brother Glen

Nonsense The Bible never says the Holly Spirit quickens anyone.
MB

 

[MB]

Iconoclast shares scripture and you call it "hate for the unsaved."
The universal call does not result in universal salvation. Instead it results in particular salvation to those whom God has made alive.

sbw, you don't seem to hate sin. Nor do you seem to hate the sin of the world. Thus, you don't grasp the need for justice toward law breakers. You seem to think God rejoices and loves lawlessness. You seem to think that God passively puts up a billboard and then sits under a shade tree waiting for the godless. You seem to ignore the biblical teaching of adoption whereby the parent chooses whom he adopts as his child.
You seem to think God is unloving if he doesn't wait for humans to "freely" choose him instead. You cry out WHY, WHY, WHY like an infant toddler having a tantrum and then accuse others of hating those who hate God, our Father.

Instead of asking "why" start asking "for what purpose." For what purpose did God choose his children? The answer is in 2 Corinthians 5.

You accuse others falsely and hold to a man made doctrine.
MB

 

[MB]

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.”
~ Romans 9:8-29

This doesn't tell us God's intentions in the new testiment. This tells us what He did in the past. You just don't know do you?
MB

 

[MB]

Election and predestination happens from eternity past!

The Bible never says Gentiles are elect. You must be imagining you are a Jew LOL.You Calvinist have wild philosophies don't you.
MB

 

[MB]

How about this verse???

KJ21
Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”
ASV
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
AMP
Now go and strike Amalek and completely destroy everything that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
AMPC
Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.
BRG
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
CSB
Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
CEB
So go! Attack the Amalekites; put everything that belongs to them under the ban. Spare no one. Kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
CJB
Now go and attack ‘Amalek, and completely destroy everything they have. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, children and babies, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
CEV
“Go and attack the Amalekites! Destroy them and all their possessions. Don’t have any pity. Kill their men, women, children, and even their babies. Slaughter their cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.”
DARBY
Now go and smite Amalek, and destroy utterly all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
DRA
Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath: spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his: but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
ERV
Now go fight against the Amalekites. You must completely destroy the Amalekites and everything that belongs to them. Don’t let anything live; you must kill all the men and women and all of their children and little babies. You must kill all of their cattle and sheep and all of their camels and donkeys.’”
EHV
Go and strike Amalek. Devote everything they have to destruction. Do not spare them. Kill both men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
ESV
Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
ESVUK
Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
EXB
Now go, ·attack [crush; L strike] the Amalekites and ·completely destroy everything they own as an offering devoted to the Lord [devote to destruction; C Israel was commanded to kill all the inhabitants of the land; Deut. 20:15–18]. Don’t ·let anything live [spare anything]. Put to death men and women, children and small babies, ·cattle [ox] and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
GNV
Now therefore go, and smite Amalek, and destroy ye all that pertaineth unto them, and have no compassion on them, but slay both man and woman, both infant and suckling, both ox, and sheep, both camel, and ass.
GW
Now go and attack Amalek. Claim everything they have for God by destroying it. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, infants and children, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
GNT
Go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Don't leave a thing; kill all the men, women, children, and babies; the cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys.”
HCSB
Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
ICB
Now go, attack the Amalekites. Destroy everything that belongs to them as an offering to the Lord. Don’t let anything live. Put to death men and women, children and small babies. Kill the cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
ISV
Now, go and attack Amalek. Completely destroy all that they have. Don’t spare them, but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, both ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
JUB
Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have and spare him not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
KJV
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
AKJV
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
LEB
So then, go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all that is his! You must not spare him, but kill both man and woman, both child and nursing infant, both ox and sheep, both camel and donkey.’”
TLB
Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalek nation—men, women, babies, little children, oxen, sheep, camels, and donkeys.’”
MSG
Samuel said to Saul, “God sent me to anoint you king over his people, Israel. Now, listen again to what God says. This is the God-of-the-Angel-Armies speaking: “‘I’m about to get even with Amalek for ambushing Israel when Israel came up out of Egypt. Here’s what you are to do: Go to war against Amalek. Put everything connected with Amalek under a holy ban. And no exceptions! This is to be total destruction—men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys—the works.’”
MEV
Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not have compassion on them but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”
NOG
Now go and attack Amalek. Claim everything they have for God by destroying it. Don’t spare them, but kill men and women, infants and children, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

You must be a version switcher. If one version doesn't say it the way you like it, you quote from a different version.. No wonder you are so mixed up.
MB

 

[Iconoclast]

your HATE for the unsaved is so frightening!

You once again ignore the verses offered and yet make as if you are interacting?
This is speaking of where the love of God is found.
Do the unsaved have the Holy Spirit indwelling them savingly?
The whole passage5:1 on down is speaking about those justified through faith.
Non elect persons remain in rebellion and never know Jesus in Mt.7:21-24....i never at anytime knew you.
read your non responses on the flood,...the world of the ungodly,Peter tells us! Did Peter hate them?
The angels destroying Sodom...did they quote Jn3:16?
1sam15:3...Destroy them, men , women,infants, sucklings....Did Jn3:16 as you wrongly attempt to use it,spare them some how?
Maybe the soldiers had it written on the edge of their swords?
Was it fair?How do you explain that to your friends sitting over fish and chips?
Those in heaven in rev.19 had no trouble.
No biblical response from you
How about David and Goliath?
Is David the foul villain for not sharing the 4 spiritual laws with Goliath?
Your defective theology has to languish and be full of contradictions if you even begin to answer, which we see you avoid 80% of the time.
How did God scattering the people and confounding the languages help the unsaved to believe the gospel?
The tower of Babel was a judgment to protect the Godly line, the elect.
We could see the dame pattern throughout scripture, but you and your posse post against calling the biblical God a "monster"

 

[SavedByGrace]

You once again ignore the verses offered and yet make as if you are interacting?
This is speaking of where the love of God is found.
Do the unsaved have the Holy Spirit indwelling them savingly?
The whole passage5:1 on down is speaking about those justified through faith.
Non elect persons remain in rebellion and never know Jesus in Mt.7:21-24....i never at anytime knew you.
read your non responses on the flood,...the world of the ungodly,Peter tells us! Did Peter hate them?
The angels destroying Sodom...did they quote Jn3:16?
1sam15:3...Destroy them, men , women,infants, sucklings....Did Jn3:16 as you wrongly attempt to use it,spare them some how?
Maybe the soldiers had it written on the edge of their swords?
Was it fair?How do you explain that to your friends sitting over fish and chips?
Those in heaven in rev.19 had no trouble.
No biblical response from you
How about David and Goliath?
Is David the foul villain for not sharing the 4 spiritual laws with Goliath?
Your defective theology has to languish and be full of contradictions if you even begin to answer, which we see you avoid 80% of the time.
How did God scattering the people and confounding the languages help the unsaved to believe the gospel?
The tower of Babel was a judgment to protect the Godly line, the elect.
We could see the dame pattern throughout scripture, but you and your posse post against calling the biblical God a "monster"

you are still ignoring the fact, that IF God does not love the wicked lost, then WHY did He use Noah to warn them before He sent the flood? Was it not so that they too could be saved? This is the crux of the matter, God would not even bother with those who are going to hell, UNLESS He in His infinite Love and Mercy, wanted them to be saved! THIS IS THE TRUE GOSPEL.

 

[Iconoclast]

Read your Bible
MB

You are free to answer any of the verses I offered, but you have an inability to do so.
You need a basic understanding like a confession of faith offers.The fact that you cannot grasp that all elect persons were positionally found IN Christ, before the world was is astounding.
The bible is a closed book to you.
Ask God to help you as everyone has urged you to do.

 

[AustinC]

You accuse others falsely and hold to a man made doctrine.
MB

Yet, scripture passages have been provided, not just one verse plucked out of context. And you, deny that the Holy Spirit quickens, even though the scripture is clear that God quickens those whom he chooses.

MB, at this point all readers can see you are in open denial of God's word.

 

[AustinC]

This doesn't tell us God's intentions in the new testiment. This tells us what He did in the past. You just don't know do you?
MB

Excuses, excuses, excuses...

 

[kyredneck]

a salvation where we somehow help God

Well. Yeah!:

Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

 

[Iconoclast]

you are still ignoring the fact, that IF God does not love the wicked lost, then WHY did He use Noah to warn them before He sent the flood? Was it not so that they too could be saved? This is the crux of the matter, God would not even bother with those who are going to hell, UNLESS He in His infinite Love and Mercy, wanted them to be saved! THIS IS THE TRUE GOSPEL.

The goodness of God is meant to lead men to repentance but being dead in sin they will not come. You are avoiding the verses once again
I understand.You have no answer.
Have a spot of tea, and get back to us.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The Bible never says Gentiles are elect.

Oh dear, Oh dear! This old chestnut was chewed up and spat out last time it came up. Acts 13:48. 'Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.'

 

[kyredneck]

The Bible never says Gentiles are elect. You must be imagining you are a Jew LOL.You Calvinist have wild philosophies don't you.
MB

MB, your extreme case of Calvinist Derangement Syndrome (CDS) totally blinds you to basic foundational truths of the Christian religion.

Ask God for help with your CDS.

11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9

 

[MB]

Oh dear, Oh dear! This old chestnut was chewed up and spat out last time it came up. Acts 13:48. 'Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.'

Here you are grasping at straws to prove Gentiles are elect again. You lost last time you will loose this time as well.
We are all appointed to eternal life the moment we believe.
From the YLT;
Act 13:48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe—as many as were appointed to life age-during;

 

[MB]

MB, your extreme case of Calvinist Derangement Syndrome (CDS) totally blinds you to basic foundational truths of the Christian religion.

Ask God for help with your CDS.

11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9

Still preaching your philosophies. The old testament doesn't say Gentiles are elect either.. Being called and elect are two different things.
You still haven't proven Gentiles are elect. You just assume which is what you do best.
MB