Reformers' interpretations of the AntiChrist

[Yeshua1]

I already addressed this as well back in post #179, when I wro Godwhen we fkirst be.lieve!te:
"I fully believe that Christ paid for ALL sin - past, present and future. That's what Redemption is.
HOWEVER - we are not forgiven of future sin until we repent of it. That's where Salvation comes in."

Which part of this do you NOT understand??

We are fully justifirf

I already addressed this as well back in post #179, when I wrote:
"I fully believe that Christ paid for ALL sin - past, present and future. That's what Redemption is.
HOWEVER - we are not forgiven of future sin until we repent of it. That's where Salvation comes in."

Which part of this do you NOT understand??

I do not understand how I can lose eternal life!

 

[Yeshua1]

In Acts 2:37, God has given the people the initial grace to believe.
If you recall - they asked "Brothers, what shall we DO (Acts 2:37)?

Peter's response to them is “REPENT and BE BAPTIZED, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

They weren't "saved" until they were BAPTIZED (John 3:5, 1 Pet. 2:38). This is the FIRST step.
The initial grace to believe is NOT salvation. It is simply seed - which could be falling on rocky ground. The proof is in the Baptism.

They were all Jews there, and peter was telling them that in Jesus Himself is the salvation from their sins!

 

[Yeshua1]

What St. Peter said ---> "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39)


What St. Peter DID NOT SAY ---> "Repent and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You can then be baptized, but being baptized is not for the remission of your sins. Oh and this promise is for you, but NOT your children." (Protestantism)

So that thief on the cross did not go to Paradise that day?

 

[MarysSon]

We are fully justifirf
I do not understand how I can lose eternal life!

Then, let me make a simple comparison so that you CAN understand.

You are adrift at sea and a boat comes along to save you. You get into the boat - and you are SAVED.
Now - it is up to YOU whether or not to stay in the boat or to jump off the side and try to fend for yourself.

THAT is the choice we have with God.
There is nobody forcing you to stay in that boat - but you would be crazy to jump off.

Unfortunately - that's what MANY people choose to do . . .

 

[MarysSon]

They were all Jews there, and peter was telling them that in Jesus Himself is the salvation from their sins!

And that doesn't change the fact that Baptism is REQUIRED of them in Acts 2:38.
NOT sure what point you were trying to make here . . .

 

[AustinC]

WRONG.
Peter is absolutely saying that Baptism brings about the forgiveness of sins.

YOUR problem is that you are a Scriptural cherry-picker and do not read Scripture in its proper context.
In 1 Pet. 3:21, Peter states again that "BAPTISM now saves you".

In Mark 16:16, Jesus Himself stated, "The one who believes and is BAPTIZED will be saved but the one who doesn't believe will be condemned."

Belief comes FIRST - then Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

No, Peter is not. The rest of scripture affirms that he is not.

 

[AustinC]

What St. Peter said ---> "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39)


What St. Peter DID NOT SAY ---> "Repent and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You can then be baptized, but being baptized is not for the remission of your sins. Oh and this promise is for you, but NOT your children." (Protestantism)

Peter emphasizes repentance for the forgiveness of sins...not baptism. The Greek is clear in Acts 2.

 

[AustinC]

And WHO is saying that Jesus DIDN'T pay it all??
Certainly NOT me.

What you have written above about what God does to us is ALL true. You just have the order out of whack because you completely deleted Baptism from the equation. You have the person being "made alive" before repentance and Baptism - and it is ONLY through repentance and Baptism that we come alive.

The Bible is CLEAR that Baptism is necessary and not just "symbolic" as too many Protestants believe (John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Rom. 6: 3-4, Gal. 3:27, Col. 2:11-12, Tit. 3:4-8, 1 Pet. 3:21).

You are either a universalist (all are saved by Jesus paying for all the sins of the world) or you believe in limited atonement. Any attempt at middle ground is a messy contradiction.

 

[Walpole]

Peter emphasizes repentance for the forgiveness of sins...not baptism. The Greek is clear in Acts 2.

Again...

What St. Peter said ---> "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39)

What St. Peter DID NOT SAY ---> "Repent and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You can then be baptized, but being baptized is not for the remission of your sins. Oh and this promise is for you, but NOT your children." (Protestantism)

This isn't rocket surgery...

1. Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (as opposed to baptism of John which the Jews knew --> See Luke 3:3 and remember Luke wrote Acts)
2. Your sins will be forgiven
3. You will receive the Holy Spirit
4. This promise includes your children

Christianity 101.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again...

What St. Peter said ---> "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." (Acts 2:38-39)

What St. Peter DID NOT SAY ---> "Repent and then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You can then be baptized, but being baptized is not for the remission of your sins. Oh and this promise is for you, but NOT your children." (Protestantism)

This isn't rocket surgery...

1. Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (as opposed to baptism of John which the Jews knew --> See Luke 3:3 and remember Luke wrote Acts)
2. Your sins will be forgiven
3. You will receive the Holy Spirit
4. This promise includes your children

Christianity 101.

Paul disagrees with you! Ephesians 2:8-10!

 

[MarysSon]

No, Peter is not. The rest of scripture affirms that he is not.

Actually - it doesn't.

Show me ANY other person in the NT that Christ:
Called "Rock" and said He would build His Church upon him (Matt. 16:18).
Told that WHATEVER he (singular) bound or loosed on earth would be bound or loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:19).
Prayed for to strengthen everybodyt else and bring them back (Luke 22:31).
Asked THREE times to "Feed His lambs", "Tend His sheep" and "Feed His sheep" (John 21:15-19).

While you're at it - show me ANYBODY other than Christ who is mentioned MORE than Peter in the NT.
After you have shown me these things - you MIGHT have a case . . .

 

[MarysSon]

You are either a universalist (all are saved by Jesus paying for all the sins of the world) or you believe in limited atonement. Any attempt at middle ground is a messy contradiction.

Jesus paid for ALL of the sins of EVERYBODY who ever lived or ever WILL live.
This is NOT Universalism.

Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved.
This is NOT the case as MOST will reject Christ and His grace.

 

[Walpole]

Paul disagrees with you! Ephesians 2:8-10!

Where does he state baptism does not forgive sins in Ephesians 2:8-10? Please quote it.

As a reminder, Paul obeyed Ananias, who told him...

Acts 22:16 ---> "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

 

[Yeshua1]

Where does he state baptism does not forgive sins in Ephesians 2:8-10? Please quote it.

As a reminder, Paul obeyed Ananias, who told him...

Acts 22:16 ---> "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Paul was already saved before that experience!

 

[Walpole]

Paul was already saved before that experience!

Then why would he need to be baptized to have his sins forgiven?

 

[Yeshua1]

Then why would he need to be baptized to have his sins forgiven?

He would not be getting baptized to remit sins, as that already happened to Him when he met the risen Christ and was saved!

 

[Walpole]

He would not be!

So Ananias was wrong?

As a reminder, Jesus told Paul to go to Damascus to see Ananias. So if Ananias was wrong, then that would make Jesus wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

So Ananias was wrong?

As a reminder, Jesus told Paul to go to Damascus to see Ananias. So if Ananias was wrong, then that would make Jesus wrong.

No, you are misunderstood what he said!

 

[Walpole]

No, you are misunderstood what he said!

Ok, please help me understand. Here again are the words Ananias (who Jesus told Paul to go see) said to Paul...

Acts 22:16 ---> "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Explain to me why I should understand this to really mean what you are saying, which is "be baptized but IT WILL NOT WASH AWAY YOUR SINS."

I am open if you can make a compelling case why you are right and Ananias is wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok, please help me understand. Here again are the words Ananias (who Jesus told Paul to go see) said to Paul...

Acts 22:16 ---> "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Explain to me why I should understand this to really mean what you are saying, which is "be baptized but IT WILL NOT WASH AWAY YOUR SINS."

I am open if you can make a compelling case why you are right and Ananias is wrong.

What washed the sins of paul was calling on Name of Jesus, not getting dunked!