So the "everlasting fire" is not everlasting? Can you show me where anyone gets out of the lake of fire? I'd love to see that verse.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Regeneration vs Conversion
- Thread starter pinoybaptist
- Start date
- Status
So the "everlasting fire" is not everlasting? Can you show me where anyone gets out of the lake of fire? I'd love to see that verse.
Far from heresy but gospel truth. Again - can you explain the parable in Matthew 25 to me?
You seem to have overlooked the fact that I also quoted the Greek those Strong's numbers were based on which you claimed are not in the Greek text.
But they are:
μη G3361
αποληται G622
αλλ G235
Face it. Your ability to do simple research is as flawed as your universalist "theology."
No, those verses break my heart. Were I in charge nobody would end up in the Lake of Fire. But I am not in charge. God is. And even if I don't understand it now, someday I will, and will acknowledge that God's way is infinitely superior to my way.
That's because there are no such verses.
sure it does. It means added by the translator.
The lake of Fire is spiritual not physical. Sure the number 9999 can have more than one meaning when the meaning is "added by the translator" You say there are no verses that declare the salvation of all mankind and I am the one being called ignorant here?No, those verses break my heart. Were I in charge nobody would end up in the Lake of Fire. But I am not in charge. God is. And even if I don't understand it now, someday I will, and will acknowledge that God's way is infinitely superior to my way.
That's because there are no such verses.
I understand that but are not you the one who told me there is only one Strong's? Strong's has been out all of my life and you are telling me there has been no revisions? There are hundreds of reversions of the Bible to include King James.
Love to. Here is another one of your so called “harmonizes with many other passages which speak about the destruction of the unsaved”.
Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:
Please some one turn the light on.
A sheep is a mature believe, a sheep is a very loyal to His master and eats only the best of the grasses.
Now I want to go to Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity. Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature.
Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.
On the other hand a goat is also a clean animal, now if you the verse referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?
Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.
But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.
Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
So many of God’s people are goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture.
Is not a goat a clean animal; how can a goat be the unsaved; the unsaved are defiled; Jesus was a Jew and knew all the clean and unclean animal. So you are saying we should throw away all the OT types and dismiss them and replace them with bias Christian assumptions?
No.
No, I already posted the Greek so it was obviously not "added by a translator." In case you missed it, here it is again:
μη G3361
αποληται G622
αλλ G235
Yes. Because there are no such verses.
Here are a few...
Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.
1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
In other words the death of Jesus reversed the curse, note verses above. But God is not calling all people now; but He is calling forth His firstfruits.
Rev. 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a[a] Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[c] from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit,[d] for they are without fault before the throne of God.[e]
Who God will make Kings and Priest from His Overcoming sons for the remainder of all mankind in a nut shell. The world is our wilderness experience where against all odds God will produce sons worthy of His throne who will rule and reign in the Melchizedek order.
Revelations 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.
Notice the verse above and then read Hebrews 7-8. I know this confuses a lot of God’s people but many are so inclined to believe that heaven is a place where we will all go and sing and play harps etc. I believe God is calling a priesthood of Kings and Priest. Our mission as a firstfruit is the remainder of mankind.
What is the Tabernacle or tent of David?
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Acts 15:14 Simeon [a] has reported how God first intervened to take from the Gentiles a people for His name. (A) 15 And the words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written:
16 After these things I will return
and will rebuild David's tent, which has fallen down.
I will rebuild its ruins and will set it up again,
17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord—
even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
says the Lord who does these things,
Of course a big part of the process is going though God's fire, Chrisitain Universalism is the most rejected belief a Christian can have. The Tabernacle of David was at Mt Zion.
Romans 9:33
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed
Hebrews 9:11
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hebrews 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:4-6
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:10-12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Hebrews 7:11-13
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Hebrews 7:13-15
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Hebrews 7:23-25
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:4-6
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Jesus preached to the dead during the days of Noah so much for the fact the dead cannot be saved. The Apostle Peter explained that "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and “preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient”, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water." (I Pet.3:18-20). Obviously, since those disobedient spirits were from the days of Noah,
"He that believeth shall be saved. He that believeth not shall be damned."..........Jesus Christ.
This is the problem with religion people like you who think you have all the answers of God's Word because of your human carnal religious knowledge. God's Word is spiritual not religious and you can call me all the names in the book but remember this verse.
1 Corin. 1:25 (Amp) [This is] because the foolish thing [that has its source in] God is wiser than men, and the weak thing [that springs] from God is stronger than men.
26For [simply] consider your own call, brethren; not many [of you were considered to be] wise according to human estimates and standards, not many influential and powerful, not many of high and noble birth.
27[No] for God selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is foolish to put the wise to shame, and what the world calls weak to put the strong to shame.
28And God also selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is lowborn and insignificant and branded and treated with contempt, even the things that are nothing, that He might depose and bring to nothing the things that are,
29So that no mortal man should [have pretense for glorying and] boast in the presence of God.
30But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].
All Flesh will see the salvation of God. The word see in the greek means with wide open eyes at something remarkable. So how can they be damned? The word damned also means judged
Let me see. You asked me if I was the one who said there was only one edition of Strongs. I answered "No" because I was not the one who said that.
So you call me names and attack my faith. Interesting debate method you have there.
Ah, the old Presbyterian argument that the cart does come before the horse.
Fine. someone in this debate said that. No I do not attack your faith I attack your obsession that God is going to torture trillions of people he never called and with no mercy for ever and ever. This god is closer to Allah than Jesus.
I see you do not dare touch on my comments on Matthew 25 because it is not based on your intellect carnal religious bias understanding of scripture. Instead my faith is based on facts that are scriptural sound from the types and shadows of the Old Testament. God hides his spiritual Word and what you have is the letter that killeth, A faith based on a Bible that has errors and bias and many interpretations and has been reinterpreted daily. God knew it would be it this way that is wh He sent the Spirit of Truth not people like you to lead and guide us into all truth.
But there is far more to the Word of God than the letter which carnal religious men have been debating for centuries. Christian Universal-ism is based on Spiritual principles from the Word of God like the example of the baby goat. That is why your so called understanding of the Greek text is important but only a small part of the truth.
Is this suppose to mean something in this debate????Ah, the old Presbyterian argument that the cart does come before the horse.
First you answer my question. Why Does Jesus who blood was shed for all men need to torture trillions of lost souls he never saved forever and ever with physical fire? Second question. Why would God who is Spirit need physical fire to torture people?
Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter
What you are missing is a simple point of context. You see The Book of Revelation starts off with John was in spirit on the Lord's day. Amazing the whole books context is based on that fact that John was looking at a spiritual book of Revelation not a physical one or a half physical/half spiritual. Seeing the Lake of Devine Purging is only mentioned in the Book of Revelation this makes it a spiritual fire not a physical hot dog roast of people.
What is spiritual? God's Word has two very important ways of interpreting it has man's letter that killeth that all the religious men argue over and debate over the centuries and never come to a conclusion because it is based on the mind of the religious man not the Word of God asking the Holy Spirit to reveal it deep hidden mysteries. but the Spiritual Word is based on what God's Word tells us in this case what is fire. What hidden message is God's Spirit trying to show us what fire is using His Word and His Spirit.
All you Greek scholars know that the word fire comes from the Greek word "pur" which we get our English words pure, purify purge and even the Catholic purgatory, (Wow Rome got something right for once. But it is far deeper and more awesome than this.
From Genesis to revelation God's Word is sprinkled with Physical examples of fire that conceal the spiritual hidden message of what is revealed in the most spiritual book ever written the Book of Revelation.
Can you tell me the difference between the cloven tongues of fire poured out on saints on the feast of Pentecost and the very same fire in the Book of Revelation? They are both the same fire not to torture people but to purge carnal man of all that is carnal.
- Status