Regeneration

[Jarthur001]

Hello Blammo,

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Nothing about believing in Calvinism...

Right you are.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Nothing about believing in Calvinism...

Again you are right.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Still, nothing about believing in Calvinism...

3 for 3..

Are there any verses in the Bible that say you must believe in Calvinism to be saved? I didn't think so.

No verse they say believe in Calvism to be saved. No Calvinist say this, that I know of. Salvation is in Christ and Christ alone. Calvinism is an systematic theology that allows all the Bible to fit together as one. Calvinism upholds God and not man as other systems. Calvinism takes into count all of the Bible, not just those that deal with God's love.

To hear some, the Bible starts and ends with John 3:16. They never speak of a holy God. They never speak that man must repent. Calvinism does this.

For the person that is about to inform me that Calvinism is just another name for the Gospel - - let's stick to the original name for it then, shall we?

Ok...the original name was the doctrines of grace. Calvinism was used as slang name calling by what is now called Calvinist by those that hated those that hold to the doctrines of grace. The same thing happened to early Christians. Christians were named by Christians haters. I can take whatever name they want to lable me, for it is I that says what it means to me.


In Christ....James

 

[beloved57]

Hello Blammo,


Right you are.



Again you are right.


3 for 3..


No verse they say believe in Calvism to be saved. No Calvinist say this, that I know of. Salvation is in Christ and Christ alone. Calvinism is an systematic theology that allows all the Bible to fit together as one. Calvinism upholds God and not man as other systems. Calvinism takes into count all of the Bible, not just those that deal with God's love.

To hear some, the Bible starts and ends with John 3:16. They never speak of a holy God. They never speak that man must repent. Calvinism does this.



Ok...the original name was the doctrines of grace. Calvinism was used as slang name calling by what is now called Calvinist by those that hated those that hold to the doctrines of grace. The same thing happened to early Christians. Christians were named by Christians haters. I can take whatever name they want to lable me, for it is I that says what it means to me.


In Christ....James

To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe about the person[ who he is] and his work[ what he has accomplished] and for whom [the sheep, the elect] and why ?[ The covenant of grace]

Even in the acts 16 quote you use, you failed to quote the rest of the passage[ as decievers and those who handle Gods word decietfully normally do]

But notice vs 32

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Also to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe the truthes of Tulip or as known as the doctrines of grace, paul also calls

acts 20

24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

In other words, the doctrines of grace [tulip] and the the gospel of Gods are the same....

 

[psalms109:31]

Ignorance

It is funny how one group think they are so enlightened that everyone that doesn't believe the way they do are just ignorant.

To trust in election before knowing Jesus is the great deception.

The cross and the Gospel is foolishness, but to those who are being saved by it, know it is the power of God unto salvation.

Jesus words are Spirit and they are life, and they are not His, but the Fathers who sent Him.

The old testiment to find out every man's state, that we all deserve destruction, it is hard to drudge through, and then to see the hope that God has brought to the world and those who trust in Him are elected unto salvation and that God foreknew them and also predestined that they be saved before even the foundation of the world.

Many men start off reading Paul's because it is a quick read and they think they know it all after they read it.

Which the scripture clearly states it is hard to understand that ignorant and unstable people missunderstand it like they do other scripture unto to thier own destruction.

None us deserve salvation and our only hope is Jesus.

Who can save me from this body of death it isn't praise be to my election, but Jesus.

We all should be at the feet of Christ and hold unto Him tightly, because your election can not save you. Only Jesus can.

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Beloved57

To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe about the person[ who he is] and his work[ what he has accomplished] and for whom [the sheep, the elect] and why ?[ The covenant of grace]

Yes indeed.

Even in the acts 16 quote you use, you failed to quote the rest of the passage[ as decievers and those who handle Gods word decietfully normally do]

There was no need to quote more, for my goal was to agree with Blammo. I reached my goal. Could more be said? yes.

But notice vs 32

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Yes..and I would agree.

Also to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe the truthes of Tulip or as known as the doctrines of grace, paul also calls

acts 20

24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

yes

In other words, the doctrines of grace [tulip] and the the gospel of Gods are the same....

Yes. I thought this was a debate board.

Welcome to the BB. BTW, I am a 5 point Calvinist that others "love to hate" so to speak. It is my feeling we will get along just fine.

If you have time, please feel free to read my column at the link below.

Mountain Monergism......In Christ...James

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello paslms109:31,

It is funny how one group think they are so enlightened that everyone that doesn't believe the way they do are just ignorant.

You want to hear something even funnier then what you said? Some goes as far as saying Calvinist are false teachers. Would you stand with me right now to tell these silly folks not to say such things?

To trust in election before knowing Jesus is the great deception.

I know of no one that trust in election. Salvation is by Christ and Christ alone. Its a matter if you trust in your sin feeled will, or in the power of God almighty. I think I'll keep my salvation in the hands of God thank you.

The cross and the Gospel is foolishness, but to those who are being saved by it, know it is the power of God unto salvation.

Now there you go. That's more like it. Salvation is by God after all, is it not? God the Father chooses, the Holy Spirit draws, and Christ saves.

Jesus words are Spirit and they are life, and they are not His, but the Fathers who sent Him.

yes

The old testiment to find out every man's state, that we all deserve destruction, it is hard to drudge through, and then to see the hope that God has brought to the world and those who trust in Him are elected unto salvation and that God foreknew them and also predestined that they be saved before even the foundation of the world.

Why do you keep saying stuff like this, when you knew its not true? Please do not make God's love so cheap. "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Eph. 5:25) which shows that he loves His people in a way in which it is not directed toward others. He does call and would have others come to Him but sadly they will not. Continually the NT reveals to us that the love of God or the love of Christ is directed toward those who constitute the church in a way that it is not directed to others.

Now this is what you need to understand about grace. His love is not caused by something we do but because of who He is and according to His purposes (Eph 1:5). He has set His affection on His people from eternity ... it isn't just some generic love for no one in particular hoping that one of them will make a decision for Him. We worship a personal God, not a god of impersonal determinism who just knows some fixed, unchangable future, as your position asserts.

If you are married please do not tell me you love others in the same way you love the one you are married to. Does not God love His bride in the same way? I say He loves us even more.

Many men start off reading Paul's because it is a quick read and they think they know it all after they read it.

Election is throughout the Bible.......

Which the scripture clearly states it is hard to understand that ignorant and unstable people missunderstand it like they do other scripture unto to thier own destruction.

This statement sounds just like what you blam others of saying in your 1st statement. What gives?

None us deserve salvation and our only hope is Jesus.

indeed.

Who can save me from this body of death it isn't praise be to my election, but Jesus.

Again, I have never heard anyone praise their election. What I do hear is freewillers saying in full pride..."I CHOOSE"...and Calvinist saying..."why me Lord?"

We all should be at the feet of Christ and hold unto Him tightly, because your election can not save you. Only Jesus can.

This is just pure wrong. If it were not for election, no one would be saved. Election is not salvation, it is to salvation.

 

[psalms109:31]

Election

The main point of the elected Jews is that there is no hope in election.

Of course we need to be drawn by God through the words of Jesus, but being elected does not mean you are saved.

It is only those who put thier trust in Jesus.

Our hope remain Jesus not election.

You can be elected to salvation and walk away that is the main point in scripture.

It is only those who remain in Jesus that will be saved.

Only Jesus sat on the right hand of God and was not ashamed.

Even the greatest of followers in God when they stand before Him say I am ruined.

It is those who remain in Jesus.

If you are elected unto salvation and don't remain in Jesus you are not saved. Only those who endure to the end shall be saved.

You dependance is in God through Jesus.

 

[skypair]

No verse they say believe in Calvism to be saved.

Oh? You've never heard a Calvinist say that "Calvinism IS the gospel?" I have.

Calvinism is an systematic theology that allows all the Bible to fit together as one.

SEMI-systematic, if you please. It still cannot answer the question of why God chooses who He chooses to salvation (quote: arch-Calvinist R.C. Sproul). It still cannot tell how one knows that one is "elect" except by "holy living" (quote: Calvinist J.M. Boice).

And it "systematically" changes the definitions of terms that otherwise would be self-explanatory -- like "whosoever," "all," "foreknow," etc. PLUS it "systematically" offers new terms that are NOT in scripture -- like "total depravity," "unconditional election," limited atonement," -- well, you get the idea. Calvinism is a HUMAN CONSTRUCT built from misuderstood scriptures else they wouldn't need aught but scriptures to explain it.

skypair

 

[Blammo]

To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe about the person[ who he is] and his work[ what he has accomplished] and for whom [the sheep, the elect] and why ?[ The covenant of grace]

[sarcasm]
Gee, dur, duh... uh... I thought it meant just believe there was some guy named Jesus that was a good teacher... no? Thank you for enlightening me. Now I can finally start (like an arminian) to examine my works for proof I am one of the elect.[/sarcasm]

Even in the acts 16 quote you use, you failed to quote the rest of the passage[ as decievers and those who handle Gods word decietfully normally do]

But notice vs 32

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

I am going to forget you used a euphemism for liar to call me a liar. You haven't been here long. You probably are not aware of the fact that most of us non-calvinists believe many of the same things you do. We just don't take it further than Scripture does.

Also to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe the truthes of Tulip or as known as the doctrines of grace, paul also calls

acts 20

24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

In other words, the doctrines of grace [tulip] and the the gospel of Gods are the same....

See, you have read a lot into that verse. We all believe we were saved by grace through faith in the gospel.

This is the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Find "tulip" in that.

 

[skypair]

Question James

...

Quote:
To trust in election before knowing Jesus is the great deception.

I know of no one that trust in election. Salvation is by Christ and Christ alone. Its a matter if you trust in your sin feeled will, or in the power of God almighty. I think I'll keep my salvation in the hands of God thank you.

Do you believe that you are "elect" or are you "saved?" Cause you say that you leave your "salvation in the hands of God, thank you."

Have you ever asked Him for it?

Or do you believe He is "holding" it for you to give it to you when you die?

skypair

 

[psalms109:31]

knowing

...

Do you believe that you are "elect" or are you "saved?" Cause you say that you leave your "salvation in the hands of God, thank you."

Have you ever asked Him for it?

Or do you believe He is "holding" it for you to give it to you when you die?

skypair

I didn't know I was His until I trusted in Him.

I was saved the old fashion way, where they believed God loved the world that He sent His Son and that whosoever believes in Him shall be saved.

The only way that I know I am apart of His elect before the foundation of the world is by only remaining in Jesus Christ.

I cannot not be saved on the outside of Jesus Christ.

I am not to doubt in Jesus Christ but believe.

Every time men try to get me not to believe I put my focus on Jesus my salvation.

Hebrews 3:12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

 

[beloved57]

ps 109 say

Which the scripture clearly states it is hard to understand that ignorant and unstable people missunderstand it like they do other scripture unto to thier own destruction.

I would say thats an accurate statement by paul since the unregenerated cannot understand spiritual truth, which the gospel is and , look at you , you are a prime example of this truth :laugh:

Notice : 1 cor 2

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[psalms109:31]

Own destruction

I do not see any man trusting in Jesus for thier salvation headed for thier own destruction, but I do see that with people who trust in election to save them.

 

[MB]

ps 109 say



I would say thats an accurate statement by paul since the unregenerated cannot understand spiritual truth, which the gospel is and , look at you , you are a prime example of this truth :laugh:

Notice : 1 cor 2

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

All things are possible with God. Why can't God draw someone with out regeneration? Why can't God convince the natural man with out regeneration?
Are you saying God can't because of what you believe?
When someone proves man is first regenerated before faith then maybe I'll believe it. Where does scripture say we have to be regenerated first?

 

[beloved57]

All things are possible with God. Why can't God draw someone with out regeneration? Why can't God convince the natural man with out regeneration?
Are you saying God can't because of what you believe?
When someone proves man is first regenerated before faith then maybe I'll believe it. Where does scripture say we have to be regenerated first?

you do not believe the bible sir, I just showed you Gods word about the natural man not being able to do something recieve spiritual truth, and you come back saying God can go against his own word if he wants to. There will be no end to your foolishness with that type of mindset..

 

[Blammo]

you do not believe the bible sir, I just showed you Gods word about the natural man not being able to do something recieve spiritual truth, and you come back saying God can go against his own word if he wants to. There will be no end to your foolishness with that type of mindset..

Mark 10:26-27 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

 

[beloved57]

Mark 10:26-27 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

If people really understood that, you would logically have to conclude that salvation is a miracle of God, without human freewill or choice. :wavey:

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

If people really understood that, you would logically have to conclude that salvation is a miracle of God, without human freewill or choice. :wavey:

The miracle was accomplished on the cross. Man's personal response to God does not negate that.

 

[Blammo]

If people really understood that, you would logically have to conclude that salvation is a miracle of God, without human freewill or choice. :wavey:

Well, I didn't save myself.

It is my will to grow hair on top of my head. I don't have hair on top of my head, and no matter how hard I will it, it ain't gonna happen. If God told me, through His word; If thou shalt soak thy head in a vat of grease, thou shalt grow hair on top of your head, and I chose to obey Him, I think I would grow hair on top of my head. I believe God.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I do not see any man trusting in Jesus for thier salvation headed for thier own destruction, but I do see that with people who trust in election to save them/

Well certainly this is true, but who do you know that trusts in election to save them? I have never met anyone who trusted in election. Which makes me wonder who in the world you are talking about. We all know you aren't talking about Calvinism because Calvinism doesn't trust in election, and no one who understands Calvinism would suggest that they do, and surely you understand Calvinism, right?

 

[beloved57]

Well, I didn't save myself.

It is my will to grow hair on top of my head. I don't have hair on top of my head, and no matter how hard I will it, it ain't gonna happen. If God told me, through His word; If thou shalt soak thy head in a vat of grease, thou shalt grow hair on top of your head, and I chose to obey Him, I think I would grow hair on top of my head. I believe God.

I fell to understand how that relates to God performing a miracle without your assistance..

Are you suggesting that if God wants to perform a miracle he must consult your obediance ?