Religion of Envy

[Singer]

Right Hank.

And these words........ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are
heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you,
and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall
find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


.....are from the mouth of Jesus. A troubled and burdened person
need not dig deeper, understand more or graduate from any
Theology classes in order to seek salvation.

Simple....yes....simple....we're making it too hard !

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Singer:
Right Hank.

And these words........ Come unto me, all ye that labour and are
heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you,
and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall
find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


.....are from the mouth of Jesus. A troubled and burdened person
need not dig deeper, understand more or graduate from any
Theology classes in order to seek salvation.

Simple....yes....simple....we're making it too hard !

Singer,

For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." (1 Cor 1:19-31)

Right?

DHK,

My most striking memory as a new Christian is my total shock at hearing the doctrines of the Bible for the first time. I had no idea anyone thought the Bible was inerrant etc etc.

Like Singer, my testimony is that I became aware of my need and I cried out to Jesus and He saved me.

Helen

 

[Singer]

Yes Helen, we wrongfully try to use the tactics of the legal system
in our quest for God.

Such as:

What does the word IS mean ?

..................... ..................

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by AITB:

DHK,

My most striking memory as a new Christian is my total shock at hearing the doctrines of the Bible for the first time. I had no idea anyone thought the Bible was inerrant etc etc.

Like Singer, my testimony is that I became aware of my need and I cried out to Jesus and He saved me.

Helen

True enough Helen,
But with your background, you probably knew already who Christ was, and thus there was no real difficulty in that area for you.
DHK

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by DHK:
True enough Helen,
But with your background, you probably knew already who Christ was, and thus there was no real difficulty in that area for you.
DHK

My background?

You mean, being raised by parents who didn't ever go to church, in a house without even one Bible?

I knew so much that I was about Kindergarten age I remember asking what Sunday School was. I was confused about why I went to school on other days and not on Sunday, but some of my friends did go on Sunday - evidently.

I knew so much that when I was taught a song at preschool I came home and sang
"Cheese is bits of shine" - so I'm told.

I knew so much that I had no idea what the gospel was or how to become a Christian until I was 20 years old. Not A Clue. I'm sure a few people had tried to tell me along the way but - well, they just didn't get basic enough for someone as unchurched as I was.

What was that you were saying about my background?

Helen/AITB

 

[HankD]

Dear brethren,

It seems that this thread like many others has turned into an exchange of spiritual oneupsmanships.

We are all suceptible to the "pride of life".

Proud of our standing in life before men and/or God.

So, we see that it is favorable in God's sight to be "lowly" (and so indeed it is).
but when we crow (if indeed we do) about our lowliness then it is no longer lowliness but crowing.

I apologize for my contribution to the exchange and my "crowing".

However, I will still give my opinion

HankD

 

[DHK]

Sorry Helen,
I thought for some reason that you were raised in somewhat of a Christian home.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by DHK:

Originally posted by AITB:
[qb]

Like Singer, my testimony is that I became aware of my need and I cried out to Jesus and He saved me.

Nevertheless, your testimony is fairly clear. The realization that you had a need (which I assume was that you were a sinner before God) indicates that you needed a Saviour, and thus cried out to Jesus who saved you. That's a pretty clear testimony.
DHK

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by HankD:
So, we see that it is favorable in God's sight to be "lowly" (and so indeed it is).
but when we crow (if indeed we do) about our lowliness then it is no longer lowliness but crowing.

I don't think I've been 'crowing'. I've only been trying to point out that it doesn't take a great deal of knowledge to be saved, because God saves us, not our knowledge.

I'm not sure how that's crowing since it's about God, not me/us...

Helen

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by DHK:
Sorry Helen,
I thought for some reason that you were raised in somewhat of a Christian home.

That's ok, DHK - I guess you must have got me confused with someone else

Originally posted by DHK:
Helen:
Like Singer, my testimony is that I became aware of my need and I cried out to Jesus and He saved me.

Nevertheless, your testimony is fairly clear. The realization that you had a need (which I assume was that you were a sinner before God) indicates that you needed a Saviour, and thus cried out to Jesus who saved you. That's a pretty clear testimony.
DHK

Fair enough - but I'm thinking that 3AM may have the same testimony. Maybe we can ask her if/when she returns after taking care of her 'real life' matters

Helen

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by AITB:

Fair enough - but I'm thinking that 3AM may have the same testimony. Maybe we can ask her if/when she returns after taking care of her 'real life' matters

Helen

We can, but that was the original intent of the question that started this discussion, a question that she will not answer. "Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God, the one and only Most High God? 3AM adamantly denies the deity of Christ. When one has so much Bible knowledge and yet refuses to believe, I do not believe that one can be saved, just like I do not believe a J.W. can be saved while at the same time believing that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Both she and they believe that Jesus is a created being.
DHK

 

[HankD]

I don't think I've been 'crowing'. I've only been trying to point out that it doesn't take a great deal of knowledge to be saved, because God saves us, not our knowledge.
I'm not sure how that's crowing since it's about God, not me/us...

similarly, those who use their knowledge may be the Lord using "the wise" and their gift of wisdom and understanding to help the brethren, else why give these human wisdom gifts to the Church in the first place.

So I agree, it is about Him and His will for His children (wise or otherwise, weak or strong).

HankD

 

[Singer]

Let's conclude then that it is never wrong to accept Jesus vs.
accepting Jesus as Lord. Either way we're "opening the door to his
knock" and He might choose not to tell us that He is also Lord until
we've had sup with Him.

I'd never discount someone's salvation for merely "accepting Jesus".

To me there was no thought that I was not doing the right thing by
letting Jesus into my life.

We all qualify for that...including 3AM. Even myself (coming from a possible
cult)

Singer

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Singer:
Let's conclude then that it is never wrong to accept Jesus vs.
accepting Jesus as Lord.

So what Jesus should people receive then Singer? You are back to square one with that statement. There are many false prophets in this world, many that claim to be Jesus, and many that claim that their Jesus is Lord. The Bible says to accept another gospel or another Jesus is to be accursed.
Further it says:

2John:
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

What is the doctrine of Christ? The doctrine of Christ is the deity of Christ, something that 3AM denies. The Bible says not even to receive her into your house or to say good-bye to her (God-be-with-ye).
DHK

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AITB:

Fair enough - but I'm thinking that 3AM may have the same testimony. Maybe we can ask her if/when she returns after taking care of her 'real life' matters

Helen

We can, but that was the original intent of the question that started this discussion, a question that she will not answer. "Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God, the one and only Most High God? 3AM adamantly denies the deity of Christ. When one has so much Bible knowledge and yet refuses to believe, I do not believe that one can be saved, just like I do not believe a J.W. can be saved while at the same time believing that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Both she and they believe that Jesus is a created being.
DHK </font>

Yes, but, see, I wouldn't ask what you're asking. I think you're setting aside that she probably understands she's a sinner in need of salvation; that she can't save herself; that Jesus died for her to pay the penalty for her sins; and has asked God to save her from her sins.

And if she's done all that I don't think God would have said 'no' any more than He said 'no' to the rest of us who believe we are saved by grace through faith.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare religious systems that rely on salvation by good works, with what 3AM believes, who has clearly said she believes in salvation by grace through faith and that Jesus is her Lord and her Savior.

Helen

 

[Singer]

(DHK)

So what Jesus should people receive then Singer? You are back
to square one with that statement.

(Singer)

Yes we're back to square one; and rightfully so, because I don't see
how it is possible to disect Jesus from God when answering his knock
at the door.

It was Jesus who said "I stand at the door and knock".

It was DHK who quoted:
"he that acknowledgeth the Son has the Father also"

DHK told Helen:
"Nevertheless, your testimony is fairly clear. The realization that you
had a need (which I assume was that you were a sinner before God)
indicates that you needed a Saviour, and thus cried out to Jesus
who saved you. That's a pretty clear testimony."
(DHK accepted Helen's accepting of the Lord)

DHK in the Mormon Jesus thread:
John 14:7 " 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father
also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."

If Jesus said by acknowledging the Son one also has the Father, I don't see
how they are separable.

You ask "So what should people receive"? Jesus. It's impossible to receive
the Father without receiving the Son because Jesus said "No man cometh
unto the Father but by me".

So receive Jesus and the rest falls into place automatically.

 

[Dualhunter]

Originally posted by Singer:
So receive Jesus and the rest falls into place automatically.

Only if that Jesus is indeed the Son of the Father, whom the Jews recognized as claiming to be God. If you do not recognize Jesus as who He really is, you haven't received Him and thus haven't receive the Father or the Spirit either.

 

[Singer]

(Dualhunter)

Only if that Jesus is indeed the Son of the Father, whom the Jews
recognized as claiming to be God. If you do not recognize Jesus
as who He really is, you haven't received Him and thus haven't receive
the Father or the Spirit either.

(Singer)

Dual, you seem to agree with DHK that a person burdened with
sin, lowly in spirit, fearing death etc. and yet when brought to his knees in
prayer.........can somehow appeal to and ask forgiveness to the wrong
God.

If that were true, then it is total blasphemy to ever mention that Jesus is
the Son of God or that Jesus prayed to His Father. It would be misleading
and therefore you should fear that your own children (if you have any) have
been led to the wrongful suggestion that Jesus is Not God. When a child
is told that Bob is Bill's son, and then told that Jesus is God's son..........do
you really think he makes the connection that Jesus and God are the same
person when he well knows that Bob and Bill are not ????

Only if that Jesus is indeed the son of the Father (you said).

How could He be anything else but that....??.( I say).

He said himself that He is the son of the Father....to corrupt that fact,
during prayer we would have to stipulate that we were not making
an appeal to the Jesus of the bible who claimed to be the Son of God,
who walked on the earth, died and rose from the dead.

Do you actually know someone who has done that ?

 

[DHK]

Why do you insist on confusing a very simple issue and clouding the facts with other terminology.
As I have explained before, the gospel is so simple: the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord. Do you agree?

Do you agree that the Jesus Christ we speak of must be the Christ of the Bible and not of some cult or religion, like the Muslim prophet, the Hindu god, the J.W. angel, etc.

Do you not accept the doctrine then that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh?

If a simple child of the ages of 5 to 7 can understand the gospel, and understand the deity of Christ, Why is this so complicated for you? The Christ of the gospel who rose from the dead is indeed God. These truths are self-evident.
DHK

 

[Singer]

*Singer in Bold

Why do you insist on confusing a very simple issue and clouding the facts with other terminology.

The terminology was used by Jesus himself when he neglected to use
terms that would clarify things for this later date.

As I have explained before, the gospel is so simple: the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord. Do you agree?

Yes, but Lord of my life more or less meant "Governor/director/counsellor
" to me and I believe that's true for a big percent of Christians.

Do you agree that the Jesus Christ we speak of must be the Christ of
the Bible and not of some cult or religion, like the Muslim prophet,
the Hindu god, the J.W. angel, etc.

Sure do, but I might ask how those you mentioned could ever
respond to our requests when they don't even exist in the first place.
The Jesus I responded to filled me with His spirit, a desire to do right
and a desire to proclaim His gospel, and at the time I had not had
anyone tell me that Jesus was God.

Do you not accept the doctrine then that Jesus Christ is God
come in the flesh?

I do now, but don't discount the authenticity of those who haven't
heard of that doctrine or don't understand it thoroughly.

If a simple child of the ages of 5 to 7 can understand the gospel, and
understand the deity of Christ, Why is this so complicated for you?
The Christ of the gospel who rose from the dead is indeed God.
These truths are self-evident.


It's not complicated for me. The issue is whether we have to discount
someone's faith and salvation just because they don't understand that fact.
It's the bible that confuses.....it is not clear on the subject and due to the
fact that we cannot receive the Son without receiving the Father, it is really
immaterial whether we understand that or not.