DHK said:
It is a change of mind in respect to our attitude toward God. Once my mind was rebellious toward God. Now it is changed and willing to be obedient to God and his purpose for me in this life. That is repentance.
It is a change of mind. And it happens at the same time that I put my trust and faith in Christ. If it doesn't then I really haven't trusted Christ, have I?
I agree with your definition.
Question: If I were a drunkard, I went through the above "change of mind" would I still be a drunkard? If I say I went through the above process but am still a drunkard, did I really go through the above process?
As a man thinketh, so is he. I don't believe one can willfully turn toward God (Rom 12:1,2) yet continue to demonstrate carnal obedience on the outside.
To clarify my position, I am not saying one has to repent to be saved for salvation is by grace through faith. I am saying a saved man will repent. For the goodness of God leadeth us to repent. Repenting is not listing sin's one by one, you are repenting from a way of life. A life without Christ.
Now let's put this in perspective which means through prayer on this subject I have made some consessions, when a man is first dunked (simple analogy for saved) we all know at that exact moment of time he has not completely changed. He has only committed before God and Men to put their life in Jesus hands. Their mind has not changed, it is committed to the process of changing. They are a baby with Christ, need milk, need to learn to crawl before walking, etc... (Heb 5:13,14 & 1 Pet 2:1,2). For this reason Peter said folks new to Christ should not be put in leadership or teaching positions in the Church. We need to let them mature and demonstate their walk first. (sorry, I can't recall this verse but will look for it later).
The other end of the Christian walk, is one whose mind has changed, eat's stong meat, knows the ways of righteousness etc... This I will call the perfecting process for the sake of discussion. None of the sin doers you listed in the other thread are in this catagory.
I have to also concede there is no set timeframe from when one dunked to the point of perfection/spiritual maturity. We know Christ is working with and in their heart, sometimes chastising, sometime rewarding, but they are primarily growing as saints... Will they willfully commit the sin's you mentioned after committing to a change of mind???
Now watch these scriptures...
2 Thessalonians 3:14
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and
have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not;
and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13
And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery,
and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the
dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19
While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb,
The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
This is why I say not all AT the Church is in the Church. In the other thread and this discussion, you want us to decide who is saved or not. I can't do that. i don't know the condition of Ananias security but you made assumptions that were not written in Acts. I don't want to judge him, Lot or anyone...
I believe in eternal security and don't see a saved man going to hell. Yet Peter makes it plain there are some walking with the saints who are on the express train to a fate, "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them"...
I say they were never saved to begin with but others might say they were saved and lost their salvation. Either way, don't expect to see them in heaven.
