Originally posted by Grasshopper:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Not all the passages you quoted to refer to past events.
Really, which ones? If you admit that some do, did the sun go dark? Did the Hills melt? Why do you have a problem with God using this type of language to describe Judgement on nations and peoples? Does it mess up your eschatology?</font>[/QUOTE]No, I have learned to take everything in its own context. There is a time to take things figuratively, and a time not to. All too often some are too quick to spiritualize when there is no need to.
Judgement on Egypt(530BC)
Ez.32:7 And when I shall extinguish thee, I will cover the heavens, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give its light .
8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord Jehovah.
--Agreed, This is a very descriptive judgement on Pharaoh of Egypt where Ezekiel uses much imagery and metaphors, as he does through much of his book.
Fall of Babylon(539BC)
Is. 13: 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their
light; the sun shall be darkened in its going forth, and the moon shall not cause its light to
shine.
--A past event? No. This is future. Look at the context.
Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
--The Day of the Lord, most often refers to the judgement day at the end times before the Coming of Christ. The Day of the Lord refers often to the Tribulation Period, the Time of Jacob's Trouble. The Day of the Lord often refers to the Coming of Christ Himself. Nevertheless it is still a future event.
Isaiah 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
--More evidence. It referst to the Tribulation Period right before the coming of Christ, a time when the Lord "will punish the world for their evil" just as this passage refers. This is a future event. Definitely.
Fall of Israel
Amos 8: 8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? yea, it shall rise up wholly like the River; and it shall be troubled and sink again, like the River of Egypt.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord Jehovah, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day.
Though it is possible it may be a purely descriptive judgement against the nation of Israel, one must keep their mind open to the possiblility of other interpretations. David Guzik in his commentary says:
a. That I will make the sun go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in broad daylight: Because of the reference to celestial catastrophe, many think Amos is now looking forward to the circumstances surrounding the ultimate day of the Lord.
i. Though, some think Amos is only referring to an eclipse. “Two such eclipses have been calculated to have occurred in Amos’ lifetime: one in 784 b.c., the other in 763 b.c.” (Hubbard)
b. I will make it like mourning for an only son: Amos tries to capture the depth of the mourning with this metaphor. We also remember the connection to Zechariah 12:10, which describes repentant Israel’s humble return to the Messiah in the last days: And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Nahum 1
1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2 Jehovah is a jealous God and avengeth; Jehovah avengeth and is full of wrath; Jehovah taketh vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt ; and the earth is upheaved at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
--Agreed. These verses are descriptive. But why? Nahum was a prophet sent to a heathen country, Nineveh, like Jonah was. He is describing to these ungodly people the sovereignty and omnipotence of Jehovah. No doubt he uses very descriptive language in doing so. Context is everything.
Judgement on Edom
Is. 34: 4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll ; and all their host shall fade away, as the leaf fadeth from off the vine, and as a fading leaf from the fig-tree.
5 For my sword hath drunk its fill in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
--Chapter 34 and 35 speak of the judgement of the enemies of Israel, perhaps in very descriptive terms. But put it all in its context. Look toward the end of chapter 35:
10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with singing and everlasting joy shall be upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
This is still future; still yet to come. There will be no more sorrow and sighing. And yet it is an earthly scene, not a heavenly one. It speaks of the Millennial Kingdom to come.
Rev. 6:14 And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
--And so shall it be during the Tribulation Period, no doubt right near the end of it, just before Christ comes again. Many other NT passages corroborate with this same passage that there will be tremendous astral, seismic, and geological pheonomena happening in the end times. Men shall see signs and wonders in the end times.
Davids flight from the Anger of Saul
Ps.18: 4 The cords of death compassed me, And the floods of ungodliness made me afraid.
5 The cords of Sheol were round about me; The snares of death came upon me.
6 In my distress I called upon Jehovah, And cried unto my God: He heard my voice out of his temple, And my cry before him came into his ears.
7 Then the earth shook and trembled ; The foundations also of the mountains quaked And were shaken, because he was wroth.
8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, And fire out of his mouth devoured: Coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; And thick darkness was under his feet.
10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly; Yea, he soared upon the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness his hiding-place, his pavilion round about him, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies
Again context is everything. You identified part of it, why not the rest? It is David's Psalm, a poem set to music. Poetry almost always has imagery and figurative and descriptive language employed.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness , and the moon into blood , before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be saved;
1st century jews understood this language, therefore understood its meaning. Is verse 32 still future? Can someone today call upon the name of the Lord and be saved? Or is that future as well?
Of course it is future. How the sun is turned into darkness we don't know. God doesn't say. Perhaps he will use an eclipse. The same is true for the moon turning into blood, or the color thereof. But it will happen in the future during the Tribulation Period. I do not doubt the veracity of God's Word.
Matt. 24: 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
You think those 1st century Jews who spent their entire life reading and studing OT scriptures understood this? I do.
The verse you quoted speaks directly of the Tribulation, and the events associated with it.
Did the Jews of that day understand all this? No. They could not even fathom the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. They could not understand the simple gospel message. Jesus went through all the OT prophecies concerning himself with two of his disciples o the road to Damascus. That is a lot of Scripture. Only when He broke bread with them, did they recognize who he was and believe. Very few understood His words. His disciples continually came to Him asking the meaning of His parables, even when he quoted from the OT prophets. No, I don't believe they understood what Jesus was speaking about. Hindsight is better than foresight.
DHK
