Reports of Side Effects Are Rising Rapidly (Covid vax)

[xlsdraw]

I'm not talking about what you believe or do not believe. Unlike you, @Revmitchell, and @Wingman68 I am addressing what was actually posted, not what you believe or do not believe. Your opinions are your own....frankly, I don't care.

But your posts and the articles you post are aimed at persuading others from getting vaccinated.

Here is how we can tell -

I post about people who have died of covid and who have died of the vaccinations. That way people know my posts are not aimed at persuading them either way - but about the risks (and benefits) that should be considered.

Your posts (and links) are specifically addressed towards persuading people not to be vaccinated.

You cannot get around that fact. We all can read your posts. They ARE the evidence.

And that is fine. You can do that. Just own it and stop making false accusations against people who point it out.

You have made false accusations against me continually.

You were challenged to produce the evidence to support your false accusations.

You provided none because it doesn't exist.

You have now once again made another false accusation.

I don't even know how to post a link. In fact, I have asked members of this board to post links for me because I don't know how to post a link.

The ONLY thing I know how to do is what I am doing in this post.

You continually make poor accessments of members posts. When we tell you that you are misinterpreting our posts, you routinely claim that you did interpret correctly, insinuating that we are liars, and sometimes just outright calling us liars.

Your perpetual confrontational and disrespectful behavior towards the members here should absolutely disqualify you from being a Moderator.

 

[JonC]

You have made false accusations against me continually.

You were challenged to produce the evidence to support your false accusations.

You provided none because it doesn't exist.

You have now once again made another false accusation.

I don't even know how to post a link. In fact, I have asked members of this board to post links for me because I don't know how to post a link.

The ONLY thing I know how to do is what I am doing in this post.

You continually make poor accessments of members posts. When we tell you that you are misinterpreting our posts, you routinely claim that you did interpret correctly, insinuating that we are liars, and sometimes just outright calling us liars.

Your perpetual confrontational and disrespectful behavior towards the members here should absolutely disqualify you from being a Moderator.

Again....I am not talking about YOU or what you intend of your posts.

I am saying the post themselves- i.e., the links (websites/ articles) ARE aimed at persuading people from getting vaccinated.

I doubt any member here (including you) would honestly say otherwise.

And that is an honest statement. (As evidenced by your posts and your attacks).

 

[Revmitchell]

I never called anyone a liar. The behavior in this thread has become unhinged. It needs to be dealt with.

 

[Reynolds]

It is not whether or not @Revmitchell 's posts were correct.

The problem is @Revmitchell called me a liar for saying he made those posts (I actually agree a DNC agenda is to disarm citizens, that had it not been stopped "death panels were a real possibility, etc.).

But the fact is @Revmitchell denied making those posts and called me a liar and unfit to moderate for saying otherwise.

That, @Reynolds , is my complaint. The man cannot be trusted - we can all see that those are his posts but he continued denying he made them and attacked me for saying otherwise.

The dishonesty needs to stop. That is what I am saying. Christians can disagree, but when they lack integrity there is a huge problem.


@Revmitchell , @Wingman68 , and @xlsdraw can deny all day long that @Revmitchell never posted those things and attack me for saying otherwise.....but it is right there for all to see.

What ever happened to thise who proclaim to be Christians standing for truth and integrity. That more have not addressed this is disgusting. There is ONE "camp" for Christiabs - even when they disagree- and this is Christ. Too many here have abandoned that calling.

He posted them. That seems obvious and should be settled. Don't understand how that could be denied.

 

[Reynolds]

Again....I am not talking about YOU or what you intend of your posts.

I am saying the post themselves- i.e., the links (websites/ articles) ARE aimed at persuading people from getting vaccinated.

I doubt any member here (including you) would honestly say otherwise.

And that is an honest statement. (As evidenced by your posts and your attacks).

There is no "news anymore." It's all slanted and biased with an intent to form opinion.

 

[Use of Time]

Man there is gaslighting and there is GASLIGHTING. There is no psychological breakdown. You are dangerously towing the line of being unChristian with your attempts to attack someone’s mental health who has calmly and definitively told the truth.

 

[JonC]

There is no "news anymore." It's all slanted and biased with an intent to form opinion.

I agree.

Some say watch both sides and the truth is somewhere in the middle....but that's too subjective for me (I'm not smart enough to guess where the actual truth lies).

It seems the media is only interesting in fueling fire - not reporting facts.

 

[JonC]

Man there is gaslighting and there is GASLIGHTING. There is no psychological breakdown. You are dangerously towing the line of being unChristian with your attempts to attack someone’s mental health who has calmly and definitively told the truth.

Ah, I don't mind too much. It has nothing really to do with me (not my character at stake).

Just a digital form of road rage.

 

[JonC]

@Reynolds ,

The truth is people have benefitted from the vaccine. BUT people have also died of the vaccine.

A concern I have (with all vaccines) is the warning of allergic reactions. They list the ingredients and say if you are allergic to any of the ingredients then don't take the vaccine.

This is how the 14 year old boy I told you about died.

But how the heck are you going to know if you are allergic to the ingredients????

The Pfizer vacvine contains 30 mcg of a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA, encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2, lipids (0.43 mg (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 0.05 mg 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]- N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 0.09 mg 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and 0.2 mg cholesterol), 0.01 mg potassium chloride, 0.01 mg monobasic potassium phosphate, 0.36 mg sodium chloride, 0.07 mg dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and 6 mg sucrose.

It ain't like peanut butter is an ingredient.

That is my biggest concern with vaccinating children.

I know the risks of taking the vaccine and of covid. So I can make that decision for myself (I have never had an allergic reaction and have had a lot of vaccines....so I'll roll the dice). I also realize known side-effects may multiply as time goes on, and damage from the virus may as well.

But I could not imagine making that decision for someone else (especially a child) and that child dying (from the virus or vaccine).

It is heartbreaking and the fact this is being used as political capital is disgusting. I have no faith in our government - either party.

 

[Reynolds]

@Reynolds ,

The truth is people have benefitted from the vaccine. BUT people have also died of the vaccine.

A concern I have (with all vaccines) is the warning of allergic reactions. They list the ingredients and say if you are allergic to any of the ingredients then don't take the vaccine.

This is how the 14 year old boy I told you about died.

But how the heck are you going to know if you are allergic to the ingredients????

The Pfizer vacvine contains 30 mcg of a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA, encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2, lipids (0.43 mg (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 0.05 mg 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]- N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 0.09 mg 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3-phosphocholine, and 0.2 mg cholesterol), 0.01 mg potassium chloride, 0.01 mg monobasic potassium phosphate, 0.36 mg sodium chloride, 0.07 mg dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate, and 6 mg sucrose.

It ain't like peanut butter is an ingredient.

That is my biggest concern with vaccinating children.

I know the risks of taking the vaccine and of covid. So I can make that decision for myself (I have never had an allergic reaction and have had a lot of vaccines....so I'll roll the dice). I also realize known side-effects may multiply as time goes on, and damage from the virus may as well.

But I could not imagine making that decision for someone else (especially a child) and that child dying (from the virus or vaccine).

It is heartbreaking and the fact this is being used as political capital is disgusting. I have no faith in our government - either party.

I have had a couple of vaccine reactions.
My Doc told me he has never had a vaccine reaction but he missed two days work with Covid vaccine. His wife developed severe food allergies after taking it. He said he can't say vax caused it.
So far the vax is behaving like the antivax Docs I have listened to predicted it would. The virus actually broke through it quicker than most predicted.
As one Doc I heard said, "Try to get an appointment with a rheumatologist now. You might see one in 9 months." All the new autoimmune stuff pure coincidence?

The fact the U.S. establishment is ignoring how India beat Delta tells me that bearing Covid is not their goal. If it was, they would follow what India did.

 

[kyredneck]

Just joined here. I see you are a moderator. Your quote of F.D. Maurice tells me a lot about you. So if I'm an atheist, then I'm more likely to be right? Am I perhaps missing your sarcasm in quoting him?

Wow, I thought this was a Christian Forum. I am a follower of Jesus, not a follower of Trump.

Rather than intelligent exchange of ideas, I could close my eyes to the site reading you and think I was at Politico, The Hill, Breitbart, Fox News, along with the many other sites where people with nothing better to do just pound each other all day long.

You have my sympathies.

<SARCASM ALERT> You're just what we need, more sanctimony.

BTW, this is the NEWS Forum, not the religious forums.

 

[kyredneck]

@Revmitchell is his own worst enemy.

Yep...

 

[JonC]

I have had a couple of vaccine reactions.
My Doc told me he has never had a vaccine reaction but he missed two days work with Covid vaccine. His wife developed severe food allergies after taking it. He said he can't say vax caused it.
So far the vax is behaving like the antivax Docs I have listened to predicted it would. The virus actually broke through it quicker than most predicted.
As one Doc I heard said, "Try to get an appointment with a rheumatologist now. You might see one in 9 months." All the new autoimmune stuff pure coincidence?

The fact the U.S. establishment is ignoring how India beat Delta tells me that bearing Covid is not their goal. If it was, they would follow what India did.

There is a difference, IMHO, between reaction and allergic reaction. My wife was sick for 2 days after the vaccine (I was a little dizzy the say after). But it was expected (as the body reacts). But it is also possible to have a severe allergic reaction.

My doc said the younger you are the more severe the reaction could be from the vaccination (or, to put it another way, the stronger your immune system is the more your body will react). That seems to have proven true in my family.

But I think this also has a bearing on "Breakthrough" cases. The less your body reacts to the vacvine, perhaps the more susceptible you will be to the virus. It seems that most Breakthrough cases are with older people. Thankfully death is still at a lower rate.

I read an article where they tested vacvinated people for antibodies. After 7 months the level was lower but still very present (but higher than with actual covid cases). What they did not do is break this down by age or with the severity of those who had covid.

We have not had enough time to know what will happen. There are too many variables - for those who had coved what was their age, the severity of the illness, etc and for the vacvinated the age seems to be a variable as well.

Too many - on both sides - are offering conclusions based on information we cannot know at this time.

I rest in the fact that God is in control. We make our decisions, but God controls the future.

 

[Reynolds]

There is a difference, IMHO, between reaction and allergic reaction. My wife was sick for 2 days after the vaccine (I was a little dizzy the say after). But it was expected (as the body reacts). But it is also possible to have a severe allergic reaction.

My doc said the younger you are the more severe the reaction could be from the vaccination (or, to put it another way, the stronger your immune system is the more your body will react). That seems to have proven true in my family.

But I think this also has a bearing on "Breakthrough" cases. The less your body reacts to the vacvine, perhaps the more susceptible you will be to the virus. It seems that most Breakthrough cases are with older people. Thankfully death is still at a lower rate.

I read an article where they tested vacvinated people for antibodies. After 7 months the level was lower but still very present (but higher than with actual covid cases). What they did not do is break this down by age or with the severity of those who had covid.

We have not had enough time to know what will happen. There are too many variables - for those who had coved what was their age, the severity of the illness, etc and for the vacvinated the age seems to be a variable as well.

Too many - on both sides - are offering conclusions based on information we cannot know at this time.

I rest in the fact that God is in control. We make our decisions, but God controls the future.

The breakthroughs are because of antibody enhanced dependency. Just as the docs y'all think are crazy predicted would happen. It just happened earlier than even they thought.

 

[JonC]

The breakthroughs are because of antibody enhanced dependency. Just as the docs y'all think are crazy predicted would happen. It just happened earlier than even they thought.

I don't think so. It doesn't make sense to me that antibodies would enhance dependency but more likely (imho) that antibody defence would decrease over time as well as the bodies response would vary making acquired immunization vary person to person. At least this has historic precise.

We can quote "experts" to support our opinions, but in the end we will choose which one makes sense to us.

But IF antibodies result in antibody dependence then this would apply to the unvacvinated covid survivers as well.

 

[Reynolds]

I don't think so. It doesn't make sense to me that antibodies would enhance dependency but more likely (imho) that antibody defence would decrease over time as well as the bodies response would vary making acquired immunization vary person to person. At least this has historic precise.

We can quote "experts" to support our opinions, but in the end we will choose which one makes sense to us.

But IF antibodies result in antibody dependence then this would apply to the unvacvinated covid survivers as well.

The antibodies are different. The natural antibody is broader. The vaccine antibody is an antibody to a spike protein, not an antibody to a virus. They are not identical antibodies.

 

[JonC]

The antibodies are different. The natural antibody is broader. The vaccine antibody is an antibody to a spike protein, not an antibody to a virus. They are not identical antibodies.

Actually, from what I have read the antibodies from the vaccine is broader because they are to the spiked protein (which is common to all Corona viruses) rather than a specific strain.

Again, that makes more sense to me but people think through things differently.

I have a question, @Reynolds -

If you were to read an expert stating the exact opposite from the sources you have read (stating the vaccine is very much safer than the virus and acquired immunity is much better than natural immunity) what would be your criteria for believing one expert over another?

 

[Reynolds]

Actually, from what I have read the antibodies from the vaccine is broader because they are to the spiked protein (which is common to all Corona viruses) rather than a specific strain.

Again, that makes more sense to me but people think through things differently.

I have a question, @Reynolds -

If you were to read an expert stating the exact opposite from the sources you have read (stating the vaccine is very much safer than the virus and acquired immunity is much better than natural immunity) what would be your criteria for believing one expert over another?

They would have to be an expert that actually deals with opposing views and not simply tries to silence them. An expert that addresses the arguments against.
The pro vax expert I most believe is the immunologist from Emory that used to be on news quite often. Not on so much now because she must not have been pro vax enough. She said vax is not safe. We have no way to know it's long term effects. But "I believe it is safer for most people than getting Covid."

What about you? What would it take for you to believe an anti Vax Doctor?

You do know that many experts believe Delta does not use the spike protein as it's primary means to infect?

 

[Reynolds]

@JonC
You do remember that the vast, vast majority of scientific experts said we would all be dead from another Ice age that was supposed to arrive in the 1990s. Then we were supposed to be killed off by now by global warming.
Just because there is a consensus does not believe it is correct.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Actually, from what I have read the antibodies from the vaccine is broader because they are to the spiked protein (which is common to all Corona viruses) rather than a specific strain.

The broadness of natural immunity relates to antibodies against multiple viral proteins. For example, antibody-dependent enhancement was not observed with vaccines against the N-protein (nucleocapsid), or the H1 subunit located at the base of the spike protein.

Anti-N-protein antibodies attach to infected cells presenting bits of viral proteins on their surface. Consequently, they are not prone to form viral complexes thought to induce cytokine storm (in theory). Also, there was a study done that showed the need for a high enough dose of antibodies to neutralize the virus. Too few, and it is tagged for consumption by white blood cells, without enough to block (neutralize) each spike, rendering it non-infectious. Consumed virus infects the white blood cells, resulting in diminished immunity and higher viral load. Consequently, antibodies against the N-protein are safer, because the N-protein is hidden under the envelope and cannot attract anti-N antibodies directly to the live virus.

The H1 subunit is a complex argument, though. In theory, the conditions surrounding the virus when exposed to the lysosome of a macrophage cause the spike protein to cleave between the S2 and H1 subunits. The newly liberated H1, which sits beneath the spike becomes the new antigen. It serves to fuse the viral envelope with the encapsulating membrane formed by the macrophage around the virus. The result is that the virus then infects the macrophage.

The developers of the vaccines did not use any of the safer methods. I thought they would, but I looked into it and found that they made no effort to use recent discoveries to avoid antibody-dependent enhancement. They target the spike protein, which is the functional cause of ADE.