"Reprehensible!" is not an argument

[Winman]

Why Lie??? I answered this twice in one thread about 2-3 weeks ago...remember ... when you were calling me names?
Oh wait...you do that on every post now:laugh:

I pointed out how your response was completely un scriptural and un biblical.

So....it is my business to deal with impudent persons like you whenever you spue your vileness toward me....

I do not remember you answering it. Instead of insisting you answered it several weeks ago, why don't you simply answer again? I have repeated some of my answers dozens of times if someone asks.

Look, God said he did not command this sin, neither did it come into his mind that they should do this abomination. Then how did it happen if Luke's view is correct?

Don't deflect, give a simple answer that you can support from scripture.

And I only called you a name ONCE. What I have been doing lately is acting JUST LIKE YOU. Pretty obnoxious huh??

But I will continue to pray that you come out of your rebellion and error into truth. If you need me, I am happy to help you. :wavey::wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

Then how did the Jews sacrifice their children to idols in Jeremiah? God clearly tells us that he did not command the Jews to do this, so how did it happen?

It happened because they sinned.

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

It never comes into God's mind to command anyone to sin. Pretty simple:thumbs:

Don't deflect, give a simple answer that you can support from scripture.

And I only called you a name ONCE.

Liar

What I have been doing lately is acting JUST LIKE YOU.

not really

Pretty obnoxious huh??

no..you are just sad

But I will continue to pray that you come out of your rebellion and error into truth

.

This pray from you will not leave the room

If you need me, I am happy to help you

you are unable to

Did God lie when he said he did not command the Jews to commit this sin? How did this sin occur if God did not command it?

It happened because they did not obey God's law.

Try answering this question for once, I have asked you this at least half a dozen times and you have NEVER even attempted to answer.

Here is yet another answer...2 wks from now you will ask the same question.:laugh: That is what you do.

 

[Winman]

Winman

It happened because they sinned.

No kidding. But how did they sin if God controls every single molecule as Luke says? According to Luke, these men could not sin unless God ordained it, but God himself said he never commanded this sin, neither did it come into his mind that they should do this abomination. So how did it happen if Luke's view is correct?

It never comes into God's mind to command anyone to sin. Pretty simple:thumbs:

What does ordain mean? When God ordains something to happen, isn't this a command? The dictionary defines ordained as a command. From Merriam-Websters

Ordain= : to establish or order by appointment, decree, or law :

An order is a command. A decree is a royal command. How can it be said that God ordained this sin to occur if God did not command it?

Liar

Show it.

not really

no..you are just sad
.
This pray from you will not leave the room

Oh, I will pray for you, that you repent of your error and come to the truth. :wavey:

It happened because they did not obey God's law.

Again, no kidding. You think this is an answer to my question? :laugh:

Here is yet another answer...2 wks from now you will ask the same question.:laugh: That is what you do.

You didn't answer my question, you simply said these Jews sinned. No joke. That does not explain how they sinned when God never commanded it, or that this abomination did not come into his mind. It is YOUR DOCTRINE that says that God has ordained (which is a command) ALL THINGS THAT COME TO PASS.

You haven't answered this question at all.

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman,
You repeat the same error and wrong definition you did the other time....go back and read it.Several people corrected your error.It is still written...go and read it.
Most of your error comes from lack of reading comprehension, the other half a wrong view of the fall.

 

[Luke2427]

Then how did the Jews sacrifice their children to idols in Jeremiah? God clearly tells us that he did not command the Jews to do this, so how did it happen?

Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Did God lie when he said he did not command the Jews to commit this sin? How did this sin occur if God did not command it?

Try answering this question for once, I have asked you this at least half a dozen times and you have NEVER even attempted to answer.

he did NOT command them to do it. I bring things to pass all of the time that I don't COMMAND people to do.

I tripped my son the other day (playfully). I did not command him to fall.

C'mon Winman. A tiny CHILD could comprehend this.

 

[psalms109:31]

When God was leading His people to the promise Land. God sent messengers ahead to give clear passage. Those who would not God commanded them to be destroy from the face of the Earth. It is God who decides who live and dies not man. They shouldn't of got in God's way.

God simple in those verse that Winman gives simple is saying that God makes no claim on their death they did it on their own, just like the false messengers in Jer 23.


Matthew 23:
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

Luke 11:50
Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world,

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[Or them fully]

If God wanted someone dead, God doesn't need our help look at Ananias and Sapphira. Peter didn't have to do nothing but tell them the message.

 

[Winman]

he did NOT command them to do it. I bring things to pass all of the time that I don't COMMAND people to do.

I tripped my son the other day (playfully). I did not command him to fall.

C'mon Winman. A tiny CHILD could comprehend this.

Tripping your son does not answer the question.

Look, it is Reformed doctrine that says God has ordained all things whatsoever that comes to pass. To ordain means to order or decree, that is a command. But God himself clearly states that he did not command the Jews to sacrifice their children to Baal. God says that it did not come into his mind for them to commit this abomination. So how did it happen?

Truth is, you can't explain this and your doctrine falls flat like the house of cards it is.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Tripping your son does not answer the question.

Look, it is Reformed doctrine that says God has ordained all things whatsoever that comes to pass. To ordain means to order or decree, that is a command. But God himself clearly states that he did not command the Jews to sacrifice their children to Baal. God says that it did not come into his mind for them to commit this abomination. So how did it happen?

Truth is, you can't explain this and your doctrine falls flat like the house of cards it is.

Then explain omnipotence

 

[Luke2427]

Tripping your son does not answer the question.

Look, it is Reformed doctrine that says God has ordained all things whatsoever that comes to pass. To ordain means to order or decree, that is a command. But God himself clearly states that he did not command the Jews to sacrifice their children to Baal. God says that it did not come into his mind for them to commit this abomination. So how did it happen?

Truth is, you can't explain this and your doctrine falls flat like the house of cards it is.

It does not mean to command.

You do not know what you are talking about.

This is why you are not reformed.

You don't understand some fundamentals of logics and exegetics.

 

[Winman]

It does not mean to command.

According to the dictionary, that is exactly what it means.

or·dain [awr-deyn] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1.to invest with ministerial or sacerdotal functions; confer holy orders upon.
2.to enact or establish by law, edict, etc.: to ordain a new type of government.
3.to decree; give orders for: He ordained that the restrictions were to be lifted.
4.(of God, fate, etc.) to destine or predestine: Fate had ordained the meeting.
verb (used without object)
5.to order or command: Thus do the gods ordain.
6.to select for or appoint to an office.
7.to invest someone with sacerdotal functions.

You do not know what you are talking about.

This is why you are not reformed.

I am not reformed because it is false doctrine that contradicts much scripture.

You don't understand some fundamentals of logics and exegetics.

It is you that holds the illogical view that God ordained all things that come to pass when God said he did not command this sin, neither did it come into his mind that they should do this abomination. That is a direct contradiction and absolutely illogical. That is YOUR position, not mine.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lets face facts Winman, you continuously enter into debate with orthodox believers about their form of Christian Belief under the premise they see scripture & the unfolding of scripture as you do. For example, you dont see any use for Original sin / you call it fantasy....then you can not possibly understand Radical Depravity. I can go on with this, but I dont see your interpretation as valid....nor does anyone else who follows orthodox theology. So why do you bang your head against the wall trying to prove your position when nobody wants to hear it?

 

[Winman]

Lets face facts Winman, you continuously enter into debate with orthodox believers about their form of Christian Belief under the premise they see scripture & the unfolding of scripture as you do. For example, you dont see any use for Original sin / you call it fantasy....then you can not possibly understand Radical Depravity. I can go on with this, but I dont see your interpretation as valid....nor does anyone else who follows orthodox theology. So why do you bang your head against the wall trying to prove your position when nobody wants to hear it?

Calvinism is not orthodox, most Baptists are not reformed. I am hardly the first person here to disagree and debate with Calvinists.

That said, the point is not whether doctrine is "popular" at this given time, it is whether it is biblical and correct that matters, or at least that is what I care about.

As far as Original Sin, I have presented much evidence from scripture to support my view. There is nothing new about it, millions of Christians throughout history have rejected Augustine and the RCC doctrine that you hold. That is all it is, RCC doctrine.

Truth be told, most Baptists do not really believe in OS or they would baptize their children as soon as they were born. The fact that they do not proves that most Baptists REALLY believe that a person is only guilty of sin when they reach the age of accountability and knowingly and willingly sin against God. Most Baptists believe a person must understand their sin and the consequences of it and trust in Christ before they are allowed to be baptized.

That probably has never occurred to you, I suspect many things have not occurred to you.

 

[just-want-peace]

Truth be told, most Baptists do not really believe in OS or they would baptize their children as soon as they were born.

Surely you aren't saying that "baptism saves", are you?????
That is the premise I get from your statement; hope I'm wrong.
(I'm assuming that "OS" refers to "original sin".)

 

[Luke2427]

According to the dictionary, that is exactly what it means.





I am not reformed because it is false doctrine that contradicts much scripture.



It is you that holds the illogical view that God ordained all things that come to pass when God said he did not command this sin, neither did it come into his mind that they should do this abomination. That is a direct contradiction and absolutely illogical. That is YOUR position, not mine.

I knew that you were going to do that.

I knew that you had no better sense THAN to do it. And I honestly don't say that to be insulting though I am sure that's how you'll take it. I say it because that's the only language that stands a chance of ever shocking you into seeing how ignorant you are concerning the Scriptures, hermeneutics and logic.

If you don't have any more sense than to think that because the word CAN mean command then it DOES- then you are totally unqualified to speak on these matters at all.

Ordain is not just a word with a definition. It is a theological term that requires context that you don't get simply from looking at a dictionary.

ANY first semester seminary student would look at your argument here and roll his eyes.

It does NOT mean command and it CERTAINLY doesn't mean it just because you provide a dictionary quote where "command" is listed NUMBER FIVE in the list of possible definitions!!

It is utterly AMAZING to me that you don't know better and yet you speak with such confidence on these matters.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Calvinism is not orthodox, most Baptists are not reformed. I am hardly the first person here to disagree and debate with Calvinists.

That said, the point is not whether doctrine is "popular" at this given time, it is whether it is biblical and correct that matters, or at least that is what I care about.

As far as Original Sin, I have presented much evidence from scripture to support my view. There is nothing new about it, millions of Christians throughout history have rejected Augustine and the RCC doctrine that you hold. That is all it is, RCC doctrine.

Truth be told, most Baptists do not really believe in OS or they would baptize their children as soon as they were born. The fact that they do not proves that most Baptists REALLY believe that a person is only guilty of sin when they reach the age of accountability and knowingly and willingly sin against God. Most Baptists believe a person must understand their sin and the consequences of it and trust in Christ before they are allowed to be baptized.

That probably has never occurred to you, I suspect many things have not occurred to you.

ROFL...Talk about spewing baloney!!! Who made you the spokesmen for the Baptists.... What a joke. Then try to punctuate it with an insult. Nice try but you are merely the more laughable.

 

[Skandelon]

Luke, where did the desire to molest originate? It had a beginning somewhere. Was it in the mind of man, which came to inform God; or was it in the mind of God, which he determined for man to do?

BTW, even some of those of the Reformed persuasion wouldn't go as far as you do regarding what 'God does' or doesn't do, which should reveal the extreme nature of your approach to this subject.

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, where did the desire to molest originate? It had a beginning somewhere. Was it in the mind of man, which came to inform God; or was it in the mind of God, which he determined for man to do?

BTW, even some of those of the Reformed persuasion wouldn't go as far as you do regarding what 'God does' or doesn't do, which should reveal the extreme nature of your approach to this subject.

How does this address the OP?

Address the OP here and then start a thread about your question above and I will answer it.

 

[Skandelon]

How does this address the OP?

Address the OP here and then start a thread about your question above and I will answer it.

Calling something 'reprehensible' may not be an argument in and of itself, but addressing the origin of that which is reprehensible (the ACTUAL argument being made against your view) is an argument worthy of consideration. You dismiss the latter argument on the basis that the former is not an argument.

 

[Luke2427]

Calling something 'reprehensible' may not be an argument in and of itself, but addressing the origin of that which is reprehensible (the ACTUAL argument being made against your view) is an argument worthy of consideration. You dismiss the latter argument on the basis that the former is not an argument.

I dismiss the idea that "God would NEVER ordain _______________ " simply because you don't like to think he would. Your Jeffry Dalmer statements are no more than that. It is not an argument.

 

[Skandelon]

I dismiss the idea that "God would NEVER ordain _______________ " simply because you don't like to think he would.

That's my point, its not based solely upon 'because I don't like to think that he would.' It is based on the fact that the bible teaches that God is holy, sinless and doesn't even tempt men to sin, much less determine it. I, Winman and others have presented countless verses supporting this truth and you still seem to think we reject this solely for emotive reasons? You are simply mistaken.

Why won't you answer the question as to the origin of the reprehensible intent? I think we all know exactly why. It reveals the weakness and unbiblical nature of your deterministic framework.