Required Setting for Day of the Lord

[LeBuick]

LeBuick,

Before I respond, would you please list the seven things you mention in the order you think they will be fulfilled. Even if you are only guessing, I would then be better able to present my overview.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:

That's what I am confused about, up till now I have been a pre-tribber but Mt 24:29 and Rev 6:12 has me rethinking my position. Those items I listed are now left open.

1. second coming with rapture (1 Thes)
2. while trib is happening on earth I thought the Church would be with the Lord (welcome table etc...)
3. two wit slain
4 end of trib
5 armegeddon
6. white throne judge
7. new jerusalem

These are off the top of my head so may be out of order.

 

[Ed Edwards]

LeBuick: //Who are the ones who came through great tribulation? Rev 7:14//

That would be 'out of' not 'through'

Rev 7:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I said vnto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and haue washed their robes, and made
them white in the blood of the Lambe.

'Out of' can mean 'escape from', 'from the mist of', etc
but NOT even close to 'through'.

IMHO this refers to those 100s of Millions of saints
raptured/resurrected at the pretribulation rapture.
If this group cannot be numbered by a man, maybe they
can be numbered by a woman?
Seriously, the number 200 Million is named later.
So this number should be in excess of 200 Million
by several times.

 

[LeBuick]

I had accepted them to be the Jews and others who did not accept christ with the church. I took this as their last chance to accept christ and Jews would/may consider this s the coming of the messiah.

 

[Mel Miller]

Required Setting

:thumbsup: LeBuick,

Your list is in good order except for the first two points!

Getting the "big picture" of the order of events in Revelation depends on understanding the relationship of those who "love not their life unto death" and the crisis point at which God will avenge their blood.

EE confuses this issue by assuming those who "come out of the great tribulation" are PRE-TRIB saints who were not subject to that tribulation. If the ones rewarded at Rev.7:15-17 must wait until the First Resurrection of Rev.20, then they are Tribulation Martyrs who will "stand before God" in Rev.15:1-4 before the Temple opens for them to praise God and the Lamb for the first time in Rev.7:9-10. In EE's view, there is no relationship between those coming out of the great tribulation in Rev.7 and those "beheaded for Christ" in Rev.15:2 and Rev.20:4 !!!!

There is no doubt that those "beheaded" for Christ in Rev.20:4-5 take part in the First Resurrection. If you now realize Seal 6 occurs "after the great tribulation", you also realize those in Rev.7:9-17 praise God and the Lamb for the first time AFTER the great tribulation. Rev.7:9-17 is NOT retroactive to a PRE-TRIB rapture. In fact, they haven't been resurrected!

When does this resurrection take place? Not until the 7th Trumpet sounds that God's wrath has come and the "appointed time" for RESURRECTION,
RAPTURE, REWARDS AND RETRIBUTION. "ALL the martyrs have been killed who must be killed", the armies have gathered to Armageddon and Jesus says this is when He "comes as a thief and we will be blessed if we watch and are ready" ... as the 7th Plague empties and God says: "It is Done" !!

Now, your main hurdle is to determine why the 6th Plague must be fulfilled BEFORE the 7th Trumpet can sound that "God's Wrath has come"!

Before we consider how that must be the case, what are your questions
at this point about the identity of those who will be given the highest possible reward promised to the Church as of Rev.3:12, i.e., when Christ appears and "keeps us from the hour of trial coming on all the inhabitants on all the face of all the earth"! Rev.3:10-11.

Jesus in Luke 21:27-35 identifies this literal DAY of Seal Six and "HOUR of Trial" as taking place when the tribes of earth see "the sign of the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory and they mourn and beg to escape all these things as He sends the angels to gather the elect out of all extremities of the heavens"! Luke 21:27-36; Matt.24:30-31.

The reward offered to this "countless multitude" in Rev.7:9-10 is that they will "serve God as Pillars in the temple of heaven and be shepherded by the Lamb for 1000 years ... starting with the Day of the Lord which begins within 3 1/2 days AFTER the great tribulation ends. The Two Witnesses are killed and the armies of the Beast are gathering for the slaughter of "the great supper of God Almighty" at Armageddon.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[LeBuick]

Thanks Mel, let me digest this.

 

[Mel Miller]

Required Setting

Thanks Mel, let me digest this.

LeBuick,

I fully expect you to question how I arrive at the following SETTING:

Quote:
______________________________________________________________
When does this resurrection take place? Not until the 7th Trumpet sounds that God's wrath has come and the "appointed time" for RESURRECTION,
RAPTURE, REWARDS AND RETRIBUTION.
______________________________________________________________

Mel :wavey:

 

[Ed Edwards]

Dear Bro. LeBuick.

The differences between Bro Mill & I boil down to the
meaning of AND in three places, the meaning of FIRST
in one place.

Let us look at 'and' in one of those places:

Rev 20:4 (KJV1611 Edition) And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them,
and iudgement was giuen vnto them:
&
I saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witnesse of Iesus,
and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had receiued his marke
vpon their foreheads,
or in their hands;
and they liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.

Can we agree that the and in " and they liued and reigned
with Christ a thousand yeeres." refer to both sets of saints named earlier?

Consider the & seperating two groups of people.
or does it seperate the two descriptions of one group?
Common simple meanings of 'and' (that is 'and' in English, also 'kai' in Greek).

I believe that there are two groups of people:

1a. those rewarded for earlier service to Christ
2a. those beheaded during the Tribulation Period (AKA: Wrath of God Period)

1b. those raptured/resurrected before the Tribulation Period
2b. those resurrected after the Tribulation Period

1c. Church age Christian (mostly Gentile) born-again elect saints
2c. Jewish & Israeli elect saints

 

[Mel Miller]

Required Setting

:type: Ed Edwards,

I wonder if you might summarize, in a single sentence, your view of the
"difference" between us on the meaning of the word "AND". I'm confused.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Ed Edwards]

Which 'and'? You can have five 'and's in a sentence and each one
mean something different.

 

[Mel Miller]

Required Setting

Which 'and'? You can have five 'and's in a sentence and each one
mean something different.

There are too many ANDs to even consider the subject.

I simply wish to know how the use of AND separates your interpretation of Scripture from that of mine. You made the statement. You, not I, should give the example to back up your claim.

Mel Miller:thumbs:

 

[Mel Miller]

Required Setting

Friends,

I wish to repeat that the Required Setting for the Day of the Lord requires the Beast's armies to be gathered to Armageddon before the events of that Day begin ...

1. Because the Temple opens and the smoke of God's glory and power clears for heaven's Three-Act-Drama following the Last Plague. AND

2. Armies are gathered to Armageddon before that last Plague empties.

When the voice out of the Temple decrees "It is Done", the events of
the Last Day begin with Seal 6 because these events are fulfilled on the single Day of God's and the Lamb's wrath. The Plagues only "complete God's thumos" (exhaust His anger) and allow that anger to "mix full strength in the Cup of His orgay (wrath)". Rev.15:1; Rev.14:10.

As of Rev.14:19, God's anger has reached the point of "great anger"
(megathumos). As of Rev. 15:1, the Last Plague "exhausts that anger" as it empties in the Air (but the plagues are described after the fact in Chapter 16). As of Rev.15:5, the Temple Opens for the Drama from Rev.7:9 to 8:5 and Rev.11:15-19.

The 7th Trumpet, Last Trump, then declares "God's wrath has come"!!
At its first trumpeting, it is the "appointed time" for Resurrection, Rapture
and Retribution. At its 2nd blast, Christ descends to gather the Elect from earth to heaven. I Thess.4:16; Mark 13:27. At its 3rd great trumpet blast, the Angels gather "every believer out of the 4 winds from all extremities of the heavens ... unto Jesus at the Synagogue above". Matt.24:31; 2 Thes. 2:1; John 6:38-40,44,54. He comes with "ALL the saints". I Thes.3:13.

That is the message of hope and comfort for tribulation saints ... some of whom must taste death until the last martyr "who must die" testifies to his faithfulness and God says "It is Done"! Rev.6:9-11; Rev.6:17.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :love2:

 

[Mel Miller]

Required Setting for Last Day

Friends,

"When will Prophetic Time be no longer"? Rev.10:6.
Three statements provide the Setting for the Last Day:

“In the days after the great tribulation”. Mark 13:27.
“In the days God’s Mystery was finished". Aorist Ind.
"Whenever the 7th Trumpet is about to sound”. Rev.10:7.


Prophetic Time Ends within 3½ days of the 7th Trumpet. The Last day begins when the signs of Seal 6 occur. The Last Trump of Revelation sounds after prophetic time has “FINISHED the mystery of God”. This includes the entire 2nd half of Daniel’s 70th Seven. On Day 1260, “chronos-time” will be FINISHED (no longer be subject to a countdown). Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7.

The word “finished” is #5055 and #5056, teleo or telos, meaning a “complete end, a definite point of time”. Prophetic Time Ends when the Two Prophets “FINISH their task”, within 3½ days of the Last Trump of Revelation, when there will be “no delay” except for the final Martyrs to be "killed who must be killed”. Rev.6:9-11.

God knows on which of the final 3½ days the Last Martyr will die. Therefore the Last Trump must sound 3 times on the Last Day at an Hour known only to the Father!

Because "God's wrath comes at the 7th Trumpet", it will sound once to crown Christ King and to announce God’s “apponted time to judge the dead" (Raise and gather);
2nd to meet and "Reward the saints and prophets and all who fear God, small and great" and 3rd, "destroy all those destroying the earth". (Retribution)! Rev.11:18.

In order for Prophetic Time to be FINISHED, armies must already be crossing the Euphrates (6th Trumpet) and be gathering to the Armageddon plain (6th Plague). This is
the context in which “Blessed is the one watching” as Jesus is “coming suddenly as a thief and none of those who dwell on all the face of all the earth will escape” unless they are “willing to die and keep begging for mercy”. Luke 21:34-36; Luke 17:33.

The Plagues “were finished” as of Rev.15:1 but “should FINISH God’s patience” before the Temple Opens for the 7th Trumpet to sound ... on one of 3½ days after the “Endtime is no longer” in process of being FINISHED! God’s Mystery ends in the days when the Last Trump is about to sound and the Two Prophets FINISH their task" and in 3 days rise up on the Last Day. Rev.10:7; 11:7.

This word FINISHED is used of the 7 Last Plagues as an Aorist Indicative, past tense; Rev.15:1 and then, in retrospect after the Temple opens, it appears in the Aorist Subjunctive to anticipate a prior fulfillment during the smoke-filled Temple.

God’s patience (thumos) ends before the decree: “It is Done" (Rev.16:17) and men say: “The Day of God’s and the Lamb’s wrath has come”. Rev.6:17. But 40 of 100 verses must be fulfilled while the Temple is "filled with the smoke of God's glory and power" and the Last Plague remains suspended in the air. Rev.15:8.

The Plagues “FINISH” God's patience in allowing men to “repent” before John sees the Great and Wonderful Sign in heaven that His deeds were righteous. Rev.15:1,4. The Martyrs and 144,000 Jews “stand before God to sing the songs of Moses & the Lamb”. Rev.14:2-4; Rev.15:2-4.

Daniel has the same picture. “They present the Son of Man to the Ancient of Days and the Coronation of Christ occurs after the Court sits in judgment on the Beast (Court of Seal 7 precedes the Coronation of Trump 7). "God brings the Saints with Christ (I Thess.4:13-14) to destroy the Beast, take possession of the Kingdom and give it to the people of the saints"! Dan.7:13-27.

The 7th Trumpet sounds after "time is no longer and God's mystery was finished". It sounds after the 6th
and 7th Seals open and while armies of the 6th Trumpet and 6th Plague are in place for total destruction! To
count on this is to know the secret of God's mystery.
Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey: