Required Setting for Day of the Lord

I get the impression that he writes that much to convince himself. He takes the plain meaning of scripture, and then runs it through a Polysyndeton filter to come up with a different order of events. No matter that it contradicts other scripture. It has to fit pre-trib or else it can't be true.

 

whomever: //No matter that it contradicts other scripture.
It has to fit pre-trib or else it can't be true.//

You probably wouldn't have liked those grapes anyway

Check out this page:
A TABLE OF FIGURES OF SPEECH

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/bullinger/TableOfFiguresOfSpeech.htm

 

Ed, the problem is that when Jesus says things like "immedately after the tribulation of those days..." and then describes the signs of the Day of the Lord, it does violence to the scripture to use Polysyndeton as an excuse to rearrange such a clearly spoken order of events. Jesus says in no uncertain terms:

1. Great tribulation, then immedately afterward...
2. Day of the Lord

...in that order.


​

 

Again, I know what you believe.
Saying it over & over like a montra does NOT make it so.
To win a debate, to even explain what you believe requires
going into detail about the subject.

Since nobody has argued against my Polysyndeton explanation, it is
proven: :saint: The End of the Church Age is marked by the
Pretribulation Rature (Matthew 24:31-44)

 

Mel Miller: //Despite EE's Polysyndeton, the word "wrath" (orgay) is NOT used anywhere in the Book of Revelation regarding the great tribulation!!!!//

And this proves what? Absolutely nothing.
The Book of Revelation does not contain the word 'church' but
both of the Lord's churches are there using other words:

1. the Church Age, Christian, born again elect saints church
2. the Jewish/Israeli elect saints church (whose members get
born-again during the Tribulation period especially when
at mid-trib the Antichrist commits the Abomination of
Desolation (AOD).

I find it more reasonable to assume this:

The 7th seal is the 7 trumpets.
The 7th Trumpet is the 7 bowls.

 

You've missed the point completely. I didn't say it. Jesus did. So if I repeat what Jesus said only once, it makes it true. I shouldn't have to repeat it like a mantra, even to you.

You can't rearrange these events. Jesus said "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and you can't undo that with Polysyndeton.

 

Comparing the rapture/resurrection (R) AKA: gathering
with the Second Advent (SC): when Jesus comes
to destroy the Antichrist and set up the
Millennial Messanic Kingdom AKA: Glorious Appearance.

1R. Jesus comes for His own ( given physical bodies)
(John 14:3, 1 Thess 4:17)
1SC. Jesus comes with His own (already have physical bodies) (Rev 19:14)

2R. Jesus comes in the air (1 Thes 4:17)
2SC. Jesus comes to the earth
(Zech 14:4-5, Acts 1:11)

3R. Jesus comes to claim His Bride
(1 Thess 4:16-17)
3SC. Jesus comes with His Bride
(Rev 19:6-14)

4R. end of the Gentile Age
(Matthew 24:3, 24:31-44)
4SC. end of the Tribulation Period
(Revelation 19)

5R. Tribulation period begins
5SC. Millennial Kingdom begins

6R. Saved are delivered from wrath
(1 Thes 1:10, 5:9; Rev 3:10)
6SC. Unsaved experience the wrath of God
(Rev 6:12-17)

7R. No Signs precede the Rapture
(1 Thess. 5:1-3, Matthew 24:31-44)
7SC. Signs precede the Second Coming
(Luke 21-11-28, Matthew 24:21-30)

8R. Focus: Lord and Church
(1 Thess 4:13-18)
8SC. Focus: Israel and kingdom
(Romans 11)

9R. World is deceived (2 Thess 2:3-12)
9SC. Satan is bound (Rev 20:1-2)

10R. No judgement mentioned on earth
10SC. Follows the Tribulation period
judgement and followed by the sheep/goats
judgement.

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

12R. relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
12SC. the worst war the world has ever seen. (Mt.24:21,22).

13R. Christians are promised they will be delivered
-- from the wrath to come
13SC. Israeli are told to flee the wrath to come

 

I believe the Bible is the
inerrant written words of God.
It is nonsense for me to
believe that my understanding
of all the Bible is inerrant.

You believe your Bible is the
inerrant written words of God.
It is nonsense for me to
believe that your understanding
of all your Bible is inerrant.

Surely i have respect enough for my
Brother in Christ that i will allow you your
opinion. If further you believe your
opinion, i will allow that also.
But i will receive the same consideration
for my opinion/belief.
I am speaking of my opinion of what the Bible
said versus your opinion of what the Bible said.
What the Bible said is true, what
the Bible means is your opinion or
is my opinion.
Don't get your opinion of what the Bible meant
get confused with what the Bible said.
Don't get your opinion of what Jesus meant
get confused with what Jesus said.

 

Ed,

You can post walls of text from now until the Lord returns. You can give me your twisted interpretations of other texts from now until the Lord returns.

You'll never get around the simple fact that Jesus said...

From the context, it is crystal clear that "the tribulation of those days" refers to the great tribulation. From the context of dozens of other references to the same signs, it is crystal clear that the signs "the sun will be darkened, etc." refer to the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

The Bible does not contradict itself: The text above is plain and simple and needs no interpretation to understand it. JESUS SAYS: Immediately after the great tribulation, the Day of the Lord will begin. If any interpretation of any other text you offer contradicts this simple statement, then your interpretation is wrong. Period.


​

 

Mel Miller: //One reason for this is that God's DAY
of wrath occurs within (3 1/2) days after the tribulation
"whenever the 7th Trumpet is about to sound". Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7.//

Your statement is contradicted by scripture:

Rev 11:11 (KJV1611 Edition):
And after three dayes and an halfe the Spirit of life from God,
entred into them: and they stood vpon their feete,
and great feare fell vpon them which saw them.

BTW, Rev 10:6-7, Rev 11:6-7 do NOT mention God's Wrath.

BTW, I never did find in your writings
which 100 verses in Revelation
are fulfilled in the 12-HOUR-DAY that the scripture
fails to mention.

Rev 11:1-3 (KJV1611 Edition):
And there was giuen me a reede like vnto a rod,
and the Angel stood, saying, Rise,
and measure the Temple of God, and the Altar,
and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the Court which is without
the Temple leaue out, and measure it not:
for it is giuen vnto the Gentiles,
and the holy citie shall they tread vnder
foote fourty and two moneths.
Rev 11:3 And I will giue power vnto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesie a thousand two hundred
and threescore dayes clothed in sackcloth.

What is the goal of measuring the Temple of God?
Why not measure the Court Without?
What is the start and end of the 42 months?
(Which half of Daniel's 70th year?)
What is the start and end of the 1260 days?
(Which half of Daniel's 70th year?)

 

What does AND mean in this verse?

2 Th 2:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
Now wee beseech you, brethren,
by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ,
and by our gathering together vnto him,

There are two main options:

1. there are two seperate sets of events
2. there are two descriptions (titles) of
the same set of events.

(There are other options, but people complain if you
get too complicated in your logic)

If you assume #2, that 'and' connects two descriptions
of the same set of events, then
you MUST believe in a post-tribulation rapture.
However, there are lots of contradictions in such a posture,
which I shall be glad to point out in the next two years,
if the Lord taries.

If you assume #3, that 'and' connects two seperate
sets of events the you MUST believe in a pretribulation
rapture. I've found no contradictions resulting from
that assumption. Therefor that assumption
(there are two seperate sets of events connected by 'and'
in 2 Thess 2:1).

BTW, a few posts ago I showed 12 differences between the
two events, nobody wants to debate the details, a sure
sign of a debate lost by the posttribs

--------------------------------------------------
Npetreley: //You'll never get around the simple fact that Jesus said...//

I agree. Jesus did say that.

Npetreley: //From the context, it is crystal clear that
"the tribulation of those days" refers to the great tribulation.//

That is correct.

Npetreley: // From the context of dozens of other
references to the same signs, it is crystal clear
that the signs "the sun will be darkened, etc."
refer to the beginning of the Day of the Lord.//

That is correct.

Npetreley: //The Bible does not contradict itself:
The text above is plain and simple and needs
no interpretation to understand it.
JESUS SAYS: Immediately after the great tribulation,
the Day of the Lord will begin.//

That is correct. And I never disputed that, not in
anything that I said. However, you have made one
logical flaw. You have assumed there is
one and only one unique 'day of the Lord'.
This assumption leads to logical errors.

There is a 'day of the Lord' when Jesus comes to
defeat the Antichrist and the works of evil and
set up a physical Mellinnial Messanic Kingdom.
And Matthew 24:30 supports it.

But in the 'day of the Lord' in 2 Peter 3:10, the
universe is destroyed: the heavens and the earth.
That doesn't happen in this 'day of the Lord' that starts
'immediately after the tribulation of that day'.

Earlier I asked: What is the first verse in
Matthew 24:29-Revelation 22:21 that is NOT
covered by 'immediately after the tribulation of that day'?

A simple opinion variation results:
I believe the answer is 'Matthew 24:31'.
What do you believe?
The furtherest out answer i've gotten is 'Matthew 26:1'
Where does your answer lie?

 

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
1. rapture/resurrection event
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

I. The time line according to Matthew 24
(Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
Mark 13, Luke 17 & 21):

0. church age continues <== you are here!
Matthew 24:4-15

1. rapture/resurrection event
Matthew 24:31-44

2. Tribulation time
Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
Matthew 24:29-30)

Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
(4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

II. The time line according to Revelation:

0. church age continues - Rev 2-3 <== you are here!
1. rapture/resurrection event - Rev 4:1 (type)
2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

III. The time line according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
(implied, until the falling away)

1. rapture/resurrection
v.1 - gathering together unto him
v.3 - falling away

2. Tribulation time
(time of the man of sin)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
v.8

Not mentioned:
(4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

BTW, I believed in the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection
before i saw these three scriptures as pretrib.
So even if you can prove all three of these scriptures
in error, I'll still hope in the pre-tribulation rapture
as will 90% of Baptists and kindred Christians.

 

Mel Miller: //Your setting of Matt.24:29-31 (and Mark 13:24-27) for the Rapture shows Jesus coming and His Presence to "send the angels to gather the elect from all extremities of the heavens" at the very moment He descends with all the martyrs that "come out of the great tribulation". //

No. Ed's setting does NOT DO THAT.
Mel's setting does DO THAT.
However, now that we have that straight, nobody has yet
proved what you say. A couple of your points might be nice ...

Here is a comparison between two outlooks,
I'm the pretrib, Mel Miller is the posttrib:

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

 

Somewhat like the late Milton Berle, I know a good line when I steal one.

"Amen, Bro. Ed Edwards, Preach it!"

Ed

 

Guys, I'm finally had time to look at Mt 24:29.

This day of the Lord, is this also the rapture? If so, then we, the church, will meet Christ in the air.

When do we eat at the welcome table? Rev 19. Is this not in heaven where as the reign of Christ is on earth. Correct?

There is also a reference to the saints returning to earth with Christ, where does this come to play?

Who are the ones who came through great tribulation? Rev 7:14

Lastly, 1 Cor 15:24-28 is said to show the end of the reign of Christ and a time when GOD the father comes to rule forever. Is this thought correct? How does this play time wise with the rest of this?