Resurrection

Just curious...
When do you see the "New Birth" happening in life of a Christian?
Do you see "being born again" as a second/spiritual resurrection stage?

When did/will ALL of the dead bodies of saints come out of their graves and meet Lord in the Air?
In History, when did Jesus with voice of Archangel, and Trump of God happen?

 

A good thing.

New birth is when someone has faith in Christ. If any man is in Christ he is a new creation.

Dead bodies will come up out of the graves and meet the Lord. God is not the God of the dead, but the living.

It happened when He came in both judgment and rescue, in AD 70. Please note the context of the passages you are alluding to.

 

Thanks for answering Tom. You are right, I should not have been so overly sarcastic. I apologize.

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:11)
--The manner in which he went was visible and physical.
This is the same manner in which he would come again. How do you get anything else out of this. This is what the angels were emphasizing to the apostles. Why are you gazing? He is coming again! And he is coming in the same visible way that he went! It won't be invisible. He is saying the exact opposite of what you believe.
You said (how) Christ is to return. The how is visibly and physically. What else could the "how" refer to?

Can you point to one verse in Acts 7 where Stephen indicates that he is having a vision. That is not there; not in the context anywhere. You can say that about the vision of Isaiah, about what John saw, but you can't say that about Stephen say.

Secondly, was Stephen lying? Are you doubting what he saw? Vision or no vision, why would he say those words. For example Peter had a vision of a sheet filled with unclean animals. In the vision did he see what he told us, or was he deceived and saw something else. Is the Word of God accurate and telling the truth about what he saw? Is the Word of God accurate in recording what Stephen saw? Did Stephen see Jesus Christ standing or not? Why would Stephen lie?

Thirdly, what else does the Bible say about Christ?
Where is Christ right now?
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)
--Right now he is in a resurrection body seated on the right hand of the throne of God. He has a physical body. He is sitting down.

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Hebrews 1:3)
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1 Peter 3:22)
--But when it came to Stephen he stood.

1John 3:2 says two things:
1. We shall see him as he is. This points to his visible and physical body when he returns.
2. We shall be like him. This truth is connected with the previous one. How shall we be like him? We shall be like him in the way that he returns, with a physical and visible body. If that is not the way that we will be like him, then you are taking it out of its context, for that is what the context is speaking of.
"He that has this hope in him purifies himself." The second coming; the actual visible and physical return of Christ, that Blessed hope of all believers, has been a purifying hope in the believers life.

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)
--The passage I cited (1John 3:2) does say that. That is its teaching. That is exactly what John set out to teach. How do you get anything else out of it.

You refer to the next five verses or so. I already referred to verse four.
If you note in the KJV, verse five has a paragraph marker, where John goes on and begins a different thought in the chapter.

--We have discussed it already, needless to say it speaks of two different bodies, two different kinds of flesh: one corruptible, one incorruptible; one mortal, one immortal; one terrestial, one celestial, etc.
In other words we now have a corruptible body that houses a temporary earthly body but someday we will have a resurrected body, but a body nevertheless.

 

Romans 8: 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Verse 23 is the key we are waiting to be completed, we are Spiritually reborn as identified by the Holy Spirit in us and our human spirit working together. We are saved by hope, hope in what is not seen. We have not seen the risen Lord but we believe He rose and we have hope that we too will be raised, that is our bodily ressurection and the changing of the corruptable body to an incorruptable one.

Collosians 1:18 Christ is the head of the church, He is the first to have risen from the dead, in order that He be first or above all things pertaining to salvation, to the church and to everyone who has believed all in it's order Christ the Firstborn, the Preeminant one over all things.

Hebrews 11: 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect

They have not received the promise of the Kingdom of Israel being set up but I believe this is also speaking of their ressurection has not yet taken place, they have not yet been made complete. The also never saw their Saviour come they believed He would come and He did we didn't see Him come but we believe it and we have a better faith. Theirs is in the one who is coming ours is in the one who has already come. Without Him having come and we being part of the bride means that they would not be made perfect.



Galatians 3:29 the believers in Christ receive the inheritence of the Kingdom which is to come, we share in the Abrahamic family of Faith, it doesn't say we become or replace the Jews. We share in the inherietance of eternal life.

 

I see in Gen Ch 13 and ch 15 where Jehovah God promised Abraham and his seed a good land for as far as the eye could see. If Jehovah God has any intention of keeping this promise I suspect that at the resurrection Abraham will cash in on this promise. I hope by the way that God does in fact keep this promise and that the Apostles are able to receive the promise Jesus made to them, that is to rule over the twelve tribes in the Kingdom. Why? Because if God breaks His promise to Abraham and his seed, how can we know that He will keep His promise of life to us?

 

Just curious...

How do you define "born again" and do you see God as being a Holy trinity?

 

Oh, where to begin, dear Brother, where to begin.

Ecc. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Hebrew word for "spirit" in this verse: ruwach רוּחַ H7307

Thayer's definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit

a) breath

b) wind

d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)

1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being


So this "spirit" being mentioned here has to be our soul, that upon death, it leaves the body and returns to God(the believer that is) who gave it, or will end up in hell(the unbeliever).

Uh, where can you support this with scripture?? His soul never went to hades, but it went back to God. His flesh did not see corruption due to the fact He(His physical body, that is) was in the tomb for only three nights and days.

Jesus' body was in the tomb(heart of the earth, so to speak) for three days and nights, but His soul went back to God, His Father. Why else would He cry out, "Into Thy hands, I commend My Spirit"?? Now on that third morning, His Spirit went back into His body, and was resurrected from the dead, just like He said He would. His Spirit never tatsted death, but His physical body did. That is what needed resurrected, His body.

I agree with this. His physical body was racked with pain, as they slaughtered Him and then nailed Him to the cross. His body did die, but His Spirit did not. It went back to God. He told them to tear down this temple(His physical body), and He would raise it up again. He stated He had power to lay His life down, and power to pick it up again(meaning His body, not Spirit).

Adam's body was in a dormant state until God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and he became a living soul.

Hebrew word for soul in Gen.2:7: נֶפֶשׁ nephesh H5315

Thayer's definition:
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

b) living being

c) living being (with life in the blood)

d) the man himself, self, person or individual

So, a soul can, and does, exist without the body. When we die the physical death, the soul leaves and goes either "up" or "down", considering the state the soul was in at the time of death, saint or sinner, I mean. The soul will go on by itself, until Jesus comes and raises the dead. The soul then reunites with the body, and if saved, go to heaven, and if a sinner, the lake of fire. And FTR, the soul NEVER dies, but it will go either "up" or "down", considering the state it is in upon death, being a saint or sinner.

I think you have this wrong, Brother. The body needs the soul to be "functional". When the soul leaves, the body dies, but the soul is still "living", meaning if its in hell, it will feel pain, etc. If that soul leaves with the blood applied to it, it will go to heaven, and it will be in heaven. In either state, the soul is still functional. Now, when Jesus returns in the cloud of Glory, the dead in Christ will rise first, and those who are alive, will be changed, and will join Jesus in the cloud. Those bodies that have died, will be changed into a spiritual body, and will reunite with the soul that Jesus brings back with Him in that cloud. Those who died in sin will also be raised, and will reunite with the soul that is brought out of hell. They will reunite(soul and spiritual body), their sentence is rendered unto them, and they are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

I hope that none of this comes off as being offnesive, but I am convinced of this which I posted.....I guess so are you with your belief, too. Have a good week!!

i am I AM's!!

Willis

 

No, your's is the opposite. "A cloud received Him out of their sight." You make no accounting of this cloud, or of Him being hidden from their eyes. You had previously written "the apostles were told that Christ would come visibly as he went visibly."

But that is wrong. They had seen Christ disappear into a cloud and be hidden from the sight. It is only after that that they are told that message of verse 11, the verse that all too often is quoted all by its lonesome. To me it is very telling that futurists have no use for the cloud, and its hiding activity. At the very least, they should admit that this passage (passage, not single verse) is not straightforward evidence for the futurist view, since it admits of two legitimate interpretations -that is, just what is meant by "manner". Neither is it the best of evidences for Preterists.

Yes, I can. I did.

"But he, being full of the Holy Spirit," - Acts 7:55

Compare with

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day," - Rev 1:10

I will make it my practice to not answer any "Have you stopped beating your wife?" questions. If you want to rephrase, feel free.

Oh, you don't have to convince a Preterist that Christ is seated at the throne. It is futurists who still have Christ waiting to be enthroned. All these verses, whether they are via vision or straight teaching, are certainly true. Christ is reigning right now, officiating as High Priest right now, and is our only Prophet. All of this is shown in Hebrews 1 and elsewhere.

And He has a physical sword coming out of that physical mouth. Or is the sword symbolic, yet coming out of a physical mouth?

I will repeat that, if Christ became permanently physical from the time of the incarnation then Christ, as God, is not immutable (unchangeable). Yet the Bible says God is unchangeable. Thus, if Christ permanently becomes this spiritual/physical entity He would then cease to be God. It is the same type of Christological error that the some make with Christ's Kenosis, "emptying", in Phil. 2.

That is a real problem today, this business of accepting someone else's paragraphs. This could be a topic in itself, especially when it comes to the NIV and some of their atrocious divisions.

No, verse 5 does not begin a different thought. It continues the thought.


This is all the time I have for this right now. I appreciate all the time you put into your responses, DHK, however much I may have disagreed with them.

 

You seem to have a real big problem with the Biblical truth of the Incarnation...

God DID become Human Flesh, and walked among us...

He DID die as a sin bearer, for the sins of Humanity upon the Cross, paying sin debt in full. Propiation for whole World...

God DID become something BRAND NEW in that moment of time, as he chose to became Human, to have the dual natures of God/Human forever linked in person of Jesus, fully God/Fully man... still was/is God, But added FOREVER the Human nature to Himself, in body of Jesus Christ...

SAME Jesus now in Heavem forever God/Man, same body died in, now raised up in heavenly realm, restored fully to His glory as "only begotten of the Father"

You have denied HisSecond Coming in a lietrally physical sense...
Denied the physical bodily resurrection..

Are you now going to deny the fact of the Incarnation also?