Revealed and Concealed Truth.

[Van]

What part of us was not corrupted by the Fall?

Did anyone say all mankind was not corrupted by the Fall? Nope so yet another strawman deflection to hide the fact Calvinism is demonstrated to be unbiblical by the following:

1) The issue you addressed was that the fall resulted in every person being corrupted. Which of course is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the false assertion the fall resulted in the "Total Spiritual Inability" of fallen mankind, unable to seek God or put their trust fully in Christ. None of the verses addressed that claim.

2) Ephesians 2:4-7 does not address unconditional or conditional election. Romans 9:11 supports conditional election, the younger was chosen over the older, so the older would serve the younger. Paul taught faith is not works, so you claim per-conditions require a salvation based on works is unbiblical. " Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,"

3) In John 17, Jesus prays for (1) His disciples, (2) born anew believers, and (3) all mankind.
17 Sanctify them [disciples) in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me [born anew believers] through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world [all mankind] may believe that You sent Me.
Matthew 7:12-14 does not conflict with Jesus being the means of salvation for the whole world., It just says only a few find salvation. John 10:14-15 refers to all mankind as the sheep, consistent with laying down His life for the whole world. Christ's death provided the means of salvation to all mankind, but only those who "receive" the reconciliation are saved. The meaning of "reconciliation" (being saved forever) is not in dispute.

4) Acts 13:48 indicates those who accepted the Gospel's direction to eternal life believed. The world translated as "appointed" refers to an agreement by mutual consent. Matthew 12:14 is non-germane to the topic. Matthew 23:13 directly teaches men were seeking God but were not under the compulsion of "irresistible grace." Saying the verse does not mean what it says because that would shut the kingdom from all mankind is nonsense. The biblical view is false teaches hinder the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did anyone say all mankind was not corrupted by the Fall? Nope so yet another strawman deflection to hide the fact Calvinism is demonstrated to be unbiblical by the following:

1) The issue you addressed was that the fall resulted in every person being corrupted. Which of course is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the false assertion the fall resulted in the "Total Spiritual Inability" of fallen mankind, unable to seek God or put their trust fully in Christ. None of the verses addressed that claim.

2) Ephesians 2:4-7 does not address unconditional or conditional election. Romans 9:11 supports conditional election, the younger was chosen over the older, so the older would serve the younger. Paul taught faith is not works, so you claim per-conditions require a salvation based on works is unbiblical. " Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,"

3) In John 17, Jesus prays for (1) His disciples, (2) born anew believers, and (3) all mankind.
17 Sanctify them [disciples) in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me [born anew believers] through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world [all mankind] may believe that You sent Me.
Matthew 7:12-14 does not conflict with Jesus being the means of salvation for the whole world., It just says only a few find salvation. John 10:14-15 refers to all mankind as the sheep, consistent with laying down His life for the whole world. Christ's death provided the means of salvation to all mankind, but only those who "receive" the reconciliation are saved. The meaning of "reconciliation" (being saved forever) is not in dispute.

4) Acts 13:48 indicates those who accepted the Gospel's direction to eternal life believed. The world translated as "appointed" refers to an agreement by mutual consent. Matthew 12:14 is non-germane to the topic. Matthew 23:13 directly teaches men were seeking God but were not under the compulsion of "irresistible grace." Saying the verse does not mean what it says because that would shut the kingdom from all mankind is nonsense. The biblical view is false teaches hinder the ministry of reconciliation.

The elect never resist His grace unto salvation!

 

[Van]

The elect never resist His grace unto salvation!

Yet another deflection, another change of topic effort, and smoke screen post. So yet another strawman deflection to hide the fact Calvinism is demonstrated to be unbiblical by the following:

1) The issue you addressed was that the fall resulted in every person being corrupted. Which of course is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the false assertion the fall resulted in the "Total Spiritual Inability" of fallen mankind, unable to seek God or put their trust fully in Christ. None of the verses addressed that claim.

2) Ephesians 2:4-7 does not address unconditional or conditional election. Romans 9:11 supports conditional election, the younger was chosen over the older, so the older would serve the younger. Paul taught faith is not works, so you claim per-conditions require a salvation based on works is unbiblical. " Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,"

3) In John 17, Jesus prays for (1) His disciples, (2) born anew believers, and (3) all mankind.
17 Sanctify them [disciples) in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me [born anew believers] through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world [all mankind] may believe that You sent Me.
Matthew 7:12-14 does not conflict with Jesus being the means of salvation for the whole world., It just says only a few find salvation. John 10:14-15 refers to all mankind as the sheep, consistent with laying down His life for the whole world. Christ's death provided the means of salvation to all mankind, but only those who "receive" the reconciliation are saved. The meaning of "reconciliation" (being saved forever) is not in dispute.

4) Acts 13:48 indicates those who accepted the Gospel's direction to eternal life believed. The world translated as "appointed" refers to an agreement by mutual consent. Matthew 12:14 is non-germane to the topic. Matthew 23:13 directly teaches men were seeking God but were not under the compulsion of "irresistible grace." Saying the verse does not mean what it says because that would shut the kingdom from all mankind is nonsense. The biblical view is false teaches hinder the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[JonC]

The elect never resist His grace unto salvation!

Spurgeon said that he resisted with all he had and that God conquered him (was Lord by "conquest"). Do you believe he is not saved? Or did he just misunderstand salvation?

 

[Yeshua1]

Spurgeon said that he resisted with all he had and that God conquered him (was Lord by "conquest"). Do you believe he is not saved? Or did he just misunderstand salvation?

his salvation proved the doctrine is true!

 

[JonC]

his salvation proved the doctrine is true!

Do you mean these do resist but God prevails?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you mean these do resist but God prevails?

I mean that those whom God intends to save will be saved....

 

[JonC]

I mean that those whom God intends to save will be saved....

I agree with you here. I thought you were saying that those people did not resist rather than they will ultimately be saved. Spurgeon spoke of this as a "conquest" as God worked in him to change his heart and remove his objections.

 

[AustinC]

What is in dispute is the false assertion the fall resulted in the "Total Spiritual Inability" of fallen mankind, unable to seek God or put their trust fully in Christ.

When Paul states that the Ephesians were dead in their trespasses and sins, not yet made alive with Christ, do you declare that they were not dead, but instead they were (insert Princess Bride) mostly dead?

 

[Van]

When Paul states that the Ephesians were dead in their trespasses and sins, not yet made alive with Christ, do you declare that they were not dead, but instead they were (insert Princess Bride) mostly dead?

Dear AustinC, do you declare that the men of Matthew 23:13 were not "entering the kingdom" because being "dead in their sins" they could not seek God? No where in scripture does anyone find that being "spiritually dead" means the person has "total spiritual inability." That absurd claim is what Calvinism pours into scripture from its crock pot.

Did anyone say all mankind was not corrupted by the Fall? Nope so yet another strawman deflection by Y1 to hide the fact Calvinism is demonstrated to be unbiblical by the following:

1) The issue Y1 addressed was that the fall resulted in every person being corrupted. Which of course is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the false assertion the fall resulted in the "Total Spiritual Inability" of fallen mankind, unable to seek God or put their trust fully in Christ. None of the verses addressed that claim.

2) Ephesians 2:4-7 does not address unconditional or conditional election. Romans 9:11 supports conditional election, the younger was chosen over the older, so the older would serve the younger. Paul taught faith is not works, so the claim per-conditions require a salvation based on works is unbiblical. " Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,"

3) In John 17, Jesus prays for (1) His disciples, (2) born anew believers, and (3) all mankind.
17 Sanctify them [disciples) in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me [born anew believers] through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world [all mankind] may believe that You sent Me.
Matthew 7:12-14 does not conflict with Jesus being the means of salvation for the whole world., It just says only a few find salvation. John 10:14-15 refers to all mankind as the sheep, consistent with laying down His life for the whole world. Christ's death provided the means of salvation to all mankind, but only those who "receive" the reconciliation are saved. The meaning of "reconciliation" (being saved forever) is not in dispute.

4) Acts 13:48 indicates those who accepted the Gospel's direction to eternal life believed. The world translated as "appointed" refers to an agreement by mutual consent. Matthew 12:14 is non-germane to the topic. Matthew 23:13 directly teaches men were seeking God but were not under the compulsion of "irresistible grace." Saying the verse does not mean what it says because that would shut the kingdom from all mankind is nonsense. The biblical view is false teaches hinder the ministry of reconciliation.