Review of Free Will 2

[InTheLight]

Failure to understand the distinction between the Gospel Call and the Effectual Call.

I understand the man-made terms created to justify your theology, yes I do.

And once again failing to discern the difference between Monergism, which believes, as clearly stated in Dort, the Universal Gospel Call, and the Hyper-Calvinism of Hoeksema, Gill, and others of their ilk.

You can dress it up any way you want, or deny it anyway you want, but it's a binary choice. God either elects someone for salvation or he doesn't.

It always makes me laugh when those who believe some sort of Syncretism cry foul when Monergists accuse them of not understanding Monergism, then post the absolute proof that they don't understand it! LOL!

I understand that if the choice is between two things, say red and white, therefore not choosing white means you have chosen red. You didn't "pass over white", you chose red.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Failure to understand the distinction between the Gospel Call and the Effectual Call.

And once again failing to discern the difference between Monergism, which believes, as clearly stated in Dort, the Universal Gospel Call, and the Hyper-Calvinism of Hoeksema, Gill, and others of their ilk.

It always makes me laugh when those who believe some sort of Syncretism cry foul when Monergists accuse them of not understanding Monergism, then post the absolute proof that they don't understand it! LOL!

Not to hijack the thread but for clarification...

I read that Hoeksema denied the 3 points of common grace. Is God’s restraining the lost from being as wicked as they can be considered part of the 3 common points?

 

[TCassidy]

I understand the man-made terms created to justify your theology, yes I do.

Obviously you don't.

God either elects someone for salvation or he doesn't.

Which has nothing to do with the Universal Gospel Call.

I understand that if the choice is between two things, say red and white, therefore not choosing white means you have chosen red.

Wrong again. "The wages of sin is death." "Condemned already."

By your "theology" because God could save everybody but doesn't it is His fault anyone goes to hell. Duh!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Limited atonement and election are not open to all. There is no free will in the doctrine. How can you say that. It is completly opposite of Calvinism ego.

Repeat after me 20 times: 'The one who comes to Me, I will in no wise cast out' (John 6:37). The gate of heaven is wide open, and whoever will may enter.

 

[InTheLight]

Wrong again. "The wages of sin is death." "Condemned already."

Huh...that's interesting. I didn't know there was sin "before the foundation of the world." Everybody was condemned already before the world was created. I see.

I guess Adam didn't have free will in the Garden after all...

 

[loDebar]

Obviously you don't.

Which has nothing to do with the Universal Gospel Call.

Wrong again. "The wages of sin is death." "Condemned already."

By your "theology" because God could save everybody but doesn't it is His fault anyone goes to hell. Duh!

You need to show how this last statement is wrong to make your point.
Logically

 

[TCassidy]

Everybody was condemned already before the world was created. I see.

Obviously you don't. Or is it just that you find it impossible to tell the truth?

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death."

John 3:18 "He that believeth not is condemned already."

 

[InTheLight]

Everybody was condemned already before the world was created. I see.

Obviously you don't. Or is it just that you find it impossible to tell the truth?

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death."

John 3:18 "He that believeth not is condemned already."

Was there sin before the world was created? No.
Was there any person believing before the world was created? No.

Yet you say man was condemned from before the world was created and then tell me that God does not predestinate people for damnation.

Even after the world was created, there was no sin in the world.

Gen. 1: 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[TCassidy]

Was there sin before the world was created?

I never said there was.

Was there any person believing before the world was created?

I never said there was.

Yet you say man was condemned from before the world was created

Man was condemned by Adam's sin. "In Adam all die."

and then tell me that God does not predestinate people for damnation.

He doesn't.

Even after the world was created, there was no sin in the world.

Yes, we all know that.

 

[InTheLight]

I never said there was.

I never said there was.

You should brush up on your reading comprehension. No reason to have discussions with you until you do.

Have a nice day.

 

[loDebar]

Repeat after me 20 times: 'The one who comes to Me, I will in no wise cast out' (John 6:37). The gate of heaven is wide open, and whoever will may enter.

I agree with this, idk I think.you have me wrong.
This verse is after salvation, eternal security, not election

 

[TCassidy]

You should brush up on your reading comprehension. No reason to have discussions with you until you do.

You should brush up on your cognitive skills. You asked "Was there sin before the world was created?" Then you provided your own answer, "No."

I agreed by saying "I never said there was."

You then asked "Was there any person believing before the world was created?" You then provided your own answer, "No."

I agreed by saying "I never said there was."

You made up a fallacious supposition and tried to insinuate it was my position, which you know is false.

Just more trolling on your part.

And I am gratified to see that you will not continue to have discussions with me because, quite frankly, I find your trolling terribly boring.

Have a nice life.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I agree with this, idk I think.you have me wrong.
This verse is after salvation, eternal security, not election

Forget election for a moment-- unless you have been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life and found your name missing. The message to sinners is, "Come to Christ; He will not turn you away." But when they come, they will find that God has loved them from eternity, given them to the Son who has redeemed them from death and hell, and drawn them to Himself with lovingkindness by the power of the Holy Spirit.

'Come, ye sinners, poor and wretched,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore.
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity joined with power.
He is able,
He is willing, doubt no more.

Come, ye needy, come and welcome;
God's free bounty glorify!
True belief and true repentance,
Every grace that brings us nigh,
Without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!

Let not conscience make you linger,
Nor of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him.
This He gives you;
'Tis the Spirit's rising beam!

Come ye weary, heavy-laden,
Bruised and broken by the Fall;
If you tarry 'til you're better
You will never come at all.
Not the righteous--
Sinners Jesus came to call!

View Him prostrate in the garden;
On the ground your Maker lies;
Then on Calvary's tree behold Him,
Hear Him cry before He dies:
"It is finished!"
Sinner, will this not suffice?

Lo! Th'incarnate God ascended,
Pleads the merit of His blood.
Venture on Him, venture wholly,
Let no other trust intrude;
None but Jesus
Can do helpless sinners good. [Joseph Hart, 1712-1768]

 

[loDebar]

Yes, the Holy Spirit draws us to Jesus

but we have to still decide individually

Mar 10:17¶
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18¶
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mar 10:19
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20
And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21¶
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Mar 10:22¶
And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

 

[Reformed]

Forget election for a moment-- unless you have been up to heaven, had a look at the Book of Life and found your name missing. The message to sinners is, "Come to Christ; He will not turn you away."

And that is the message every Monergist pastor I know preaches. Come to Christ!

The Free offer of the Gospel is hotly debated among Monergists. I understand the conundrum it presents. If the Father has chosen the Elect from all eternity, does not that mean there are those who are not chosen? And if that is so, has the Father created people for the purpose of perdition? It is a very hard question to ask and it is intellectually dishonest not to ask it. Does scripture speak to this issue? I think it does. I recommend this issue be discussed in a separate thread since this thread is probably close to being closed by @SquireRobertsson given the number of posts. If you do not mind, I will start such a thread and see where it goes.

 

[loDebar]

They usually let it grow to 166 posts

 

[loDebar]

We were not created for hell,

 

[SovereignGrace]

We were not created for hell,

No one on here has even remotely alluded to saying they are.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2:45 AM.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I agree with this, idk I think.you have me wrong.
This verse is after salvation, eternal security, not election

Bruh...what planet does the air you breath get pumped in from? Your posts make ZERO theological sense. It's like you're throwing a bunch of stuff against a wall and seeing what sticks.