Rick Warren & Muslims???

[preachinjesus]

Well, here are 14 pages later...and a lot of what has been said has (no surprises here) turned out to be wrong.

Will the OP and others who have assailed this minister's character repent and apologize?

This is another reason why the internet is such a poor medium for conversations like this when reactionary and knee-jerk posts occur instead of reasoned, patient reflection. Prudence is the charter of the day.

 

[webdog]

Glad to see Warren say all that. Now, what about the reports of what his staff members have said?

Is this about Warren or his staff? Amazing the dodge and deflect ALL OVER the web since RW came out and said this.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Well, according to the most recent artical that webdog posted, I am very willing and happy to say...

I was wrong regarding my statement that I was going to consider Warran a "heritic" for saying that christians and muslims worship the same god, as the original artical said. I jumped the gun.

And I am very happy to to be wrong. I dont want anyone to be a heritic. And I dont want anyone teaching that christians and muslims worship worship the same God. Which I thought Warran was advocating.

But I was wrong.

 

[Don]

Is this about Warren or his staff? Amazing the dodge and deflect ALL OVER the web since RW came out and said this.

How is that a "dodge and deflect"? If you say one thing, but you allow your staff to say and do another thing, then your words are meaningless. Warren's staff are a direct reflection of his leadership.

I'm ready to issue an apology - but if Warren's church staff are saying something other than what Warren says, then he's got a division in his church leadership that needs to be addressed. And if he's not addressing it, if he's giving an implicit acceptance of what they're saying and doing by not correcting it, then my apology is meaningless.

 

[Don]

You are a hater too?

"hater"? Nope. "Disagree-er" would be a better term for me.

 

[glfredrick]

www.christianpost.com/news/exclusiv...-muslims-christians-view-god-the-same--70767/

Warren haters / slanderers / false witness bearers...ready to repent?

Thanks for posting that article. Pretty much sums up what I have been posting about Warren and Saddleback here on the board in this and other "hate Warren" threads.

He is not the guy that some here think, but he IS missional in a way that some (obviously) do not undertand or like.

 

[webdog]

Much respect to AIC. :thumbs:

 

[righteousdude2]

Here's My Spin, on Rick

However, at this moment in time, I am willing to wait and see if this is simply a well paid "spin-doctors" work at saving the mega-minister's ministry and pay check.

I will recant, WD, when the media sources that printed the stories, as factual, post something to make amends for their poor reporting.

Warren is good (and has the money to pay good people for good PR) at what he does, and slipping out of this slippery situations, is what people of his stature do well!

Time will tell, and if, in fact, this story dies a natural death, in the coming months or years, I will be willing to issue an apology, saying I'm wrong. Until then, his cozy, kumbya moment with neighboring Muslims continues to look, smell, quack, and walk like a duck, and if the egg he's laid hatches and goes away; you will see me say I'm wrong!

To submit to your proof of wrong doing would be as much of a knee-jerk reaction as what you are accusing all of those in your post of doing! :type:

 

[Don]

However, at this moment in time, I am willing to wait and see if this is simply a well paid "spin-doctors" work at saving the mega-minister's ministry and pay check.

I will recant, WD, when the media sources that printed the stories, as factual, post something to make amends for their poor reporting.

Warren is good (and has the money to pay good people for good PR) at what he does, and slipping out of this slippery situations, is what people of his stature do well!

Time will tell, and if, in fact, this story dies a natural death, in the coming months or years, I will be willing to issue an apology, saying I'm wrong. Until then, his cozy, kumbya moment with neighboring Muslims continues to look, smell, quack, and walk like a duck, and if the egg he's laid hatches and goes away; you will see me say I'm wrong!

To submit to your proof of wrong doing would be as much of a knee-jerk reaction as what you are accusing all of those in your post of doing! :type:

RD - I doubt the media will ever issue a retraction, much less an apology. And if they do, they'll bury it on the back page of the paper.

 

[webdog]

However, at this moment in time, I am willing to wait and see if this is simply a well paid "spin-doctors" work at saving the mega-minister's ministry and pay check.

I will recant, WD, when the media sources that printed the stories, as factual, post something to make amends for their poor reporting.

Warren is good (and has the money to pay good people for good PR) at what he does, and slipping out of this slippery situations, is what people of his stature do well!

Time will tell, and if, in fact, this story dies a natural death, in the coming months or years, I will be willing to issue an apology, saying I'm wrong. Until then, his cozy, kumbya moment with neighboring Muslims continues to look, smell, quack, and walk like a duck, and if the egg he's laid hatches and goes away; you will see me say I'm wrong!

To submit to your proof of wrong doing would be as much of a knee-jerk reaction as what you are accusing all of those in your post of doing! :type:

The irony is everyone is so quick to "knee jerk" in demonizing RW...now when there are direct quotes from RW you want to be "cautious"?

 

[mandym]

However, at this moment in time, I am willing to wait and see if this is simply a well paid "spin-doctors" work at saving the mega-minister's ministry and pay check.

I will recant, WD, when the media sources that printed the stories, as factual, post something to make amends for their poor reporting.

Warren is good (and has the money to pay good people for good PR) at what he does, and slipping out of this slippery situations, is what people of his stature do well!

Time will tell, and if, in fact, this story dies a natural death, in the coming months or years, I will be willing to issue an apology, saying I'm wrong. Until then, his cozy, kumbya moment with neighboring Muslims continues to look, smell, quack, and walk like a duck, and if the egg he's laid hatches and goes away; you will see me say I'm wrong!

To submit to your proof of wrong doing would be as much of a knee-jerk reaction as what you are accusing all of those in your post of doing! :type:

This is just over the top and unnecessary.

 

[righteousdude2]

And How Is It....

This is just over the top and unnecessary.

....that I'm over the top? I'm simply saying that both sides of this issue have presented their evidence, and like a civil matter, when it comes to making a decision of judgment, from my perspective, it is 50.99% to 49.99% in favor of my believing what I choose to believe. In a court of law, that would be called "Perponderance of Evdience" which is the opposite of a jury trial that requires one to prove their case "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" and letting a jury of ones peers decide the fate of the accused!

Let's leave it at that, and quit trying to shame me, or others into believing as you.

Look, I don't mean to be unreasonable, but RW is quite liberal in many things he does, and I just can't believe it is in the best interest of what I believe (to be the underlying agenda of Muslims world-wide) to approve of anyone representing the Bible to be standing behind a Muslim podium. You can post your opinion, but when it comes to down to your view and mine, at this time, I choose to stand behind mine.

All things are subject to change, as are my views on this issue, but at this time, I just can't be swayed to think along the same lines as you. That doesn't make me wrong, and it doesn't make you wrong. It just makes both of us very opinionated when it comes to RW. raying:

Unless you want to tell me that the video and photo of him standing behind a Muslim podium was photo shopped?

 

[mandym]

....that I'm over the top? I'm simply saying that both sides of this issue have presented their evidence, and like a civil matter, when it comes to making a decision of judgment, from my perspective, it is 50.99% to 49.99% in favor of my believing what I choose to believe. Leave it at that, and quit trying to shame me, or others into believing as you.

Look, I don't mean to be unreasonable, but RW is quite liberal in many things he does, and I just can't believe it is in the best interest of what I believe (to be the underlying agenda of Muslims world-wide) to approve of anyone representing the Bible to be standing behind a Muslim podium. You can post your opinion, but when it comes to down to your view and mine, at this time, I choose to stand behind mine.

All things are subject to change, as are my views on this issue, but at this time, I just can't be swayed to think along the same lines as you. That doesn't make me wrong, and it doesn't make you wrong. It just makes both of us very opinionated when it comes to RW. raying:

Unless you want to tell me that the video and photo of him standing behind a Muslim podium was photo shopped?

Your shame has nothing to do with me. And you are trying to be unreasonable.

 

[righteousdude2]

In My Way Of Seeing This...

Your shame has nothing to do with me. And you are trying to be unreasonable.

...it is you who are being "unreasonable!" I believe they call that Détente, comrade?

 

[gb93433]

Look, I don't mean to be unreasonable, but RW is quite liberal in many things he does, and I just can't believe it is in the best interest of what I believe (to be the underlying agenda of Muslims world-wide) to approve of anyone representing the Bible to be standing behind a Muslim podium.

What is your definition of liberal? Jesus stood in the synagogue and taught. Is that an example of being liberal?

 

[glfredrick]

i'm surprised that the true leader if much of this Rick Warren hating has not yet been brought to light in this thread. Everything "seems" to stem from Jack Van Impe, who seems to now make tearing down Rick Warren and Saddleback his main goal in life.

Way to represent the gospel Jack... :BangHead:

Can we apply the test of a false prophet to Van Impe? Would be fun to see how it goes.

 

[righteousdude2]

Who Is Jack Impe?

i'm surprised that the true leader if much of this Rick Warren hating has not yet been brought to light in this thread. Everything "seems" to stem from Jack Van Impe, who seems to now make tearing down Rick Warren and Saddleback his main goal in life.

Way to represent the gospel Jack... :BangHead:

Can we apply the test of a false prophet to Van Impe? Would be fun to see how it goes.

I am not a follower, nor a fan of Van Impe, and I certainly didn't get any of the information that causes me to question the true agenda behind RW, from him.

As I stated before, I have not been an avid fan of RW. I am not meaning to be judgmental. He is just not someone I would trust my spiritual guidance to. That is my choice. Many on this board don't care for Billy Graham, and that is your right. However, I'm a big supporter of Graham, and I've patterned a lot of my ministry and style after him. This is true for others who love RW and pattern their ministry after him.

It has nothing to do with my hating RW. It has everything to do with who I'd prefer to be in a lifeboat with, adrift on the ocean. Of course, Jesus would be my first preference, but Billy would be my second. My third person would be Billy Sunday. Do you see a pattern? All my heroes are evangelistic in nature. And while RW may be evangelistic, his form of evangelism is not my cup of tea! SORRY....

 

[Alive in Christ]

Rightiousdude...

Who Is Jack Impe?

Jack Van Impe, and his wife, have a syndicated weekly TV boadcast.

I would estimate that maybe 30% of the content is credible and profitable, with the the other70% consisting of information that you should take with a grain of salt.

And they will try and sell you stuff :tonofbricks:

 

[glfredrick]

I am not a follower, nor a fan of Van Impe, and I certainly didn't get any of the information that causes me to question the true agenda behind RW, from him.

As I stated before, I have not been an avid fan of RW. I am not meaning to be judgmental. He is just not someone I would trust my spiritual guidance to. That is my choice. Many on this board don't care for Billy Graham, and that is your right. However, I'm a big supporter of Graham, and I've patterned a lot of my ministry and style after him. This is true for others who love RW and pattern their ministry after him.

It has nothing to do with my hating RW. It has everything to do with who I'd prefer to be in a lifeboat with, adrift on the ocean. Of course, Jesus would be my first preference, but Billy would be my second. My third person would be Billy Sunday. Do you see a pattern? All my heroes are evangelistic in nature. And while RW may be evangelistic, his form of evangelism is not my cup of tea! SORRY....

I know how you must feel... Unlike both Billys, Rick has actually grown the largest BAPTIST church in America. :thumbs:

 

[SolaSaint]

Hi All,

I made the OP and I for one am glad RW came out and made the statement he did. I'm very surprised that he did. For all those who are ecstatic about us anti-Warrenites being wrong, or should I say--jumping on the bandwagon this time. There is a reason behind it. We had no reason to believe the original article was not true and where there is smoke there is fire. Warren has been seen in Muslim services and speaking prayers to Allah, so why wouldn't we be quick to believe this story about him claiming the same God? If Warren wasn't so eager for unity at any cost (his words), then he wouldn't get all this negative attention. It comes with hte territory, so I'll say to all you who are so quick to defend Warren; I feel sorry that you are that liberal in your theology to do so. I pray God will convict you of your liberalness.