Rick Warren & Muslims???

[Amy.G]

Duh... Thus the reason for evangelization, which is Warren's context.

The presumption I've mostly see expressed here on the board so far is that it is simply better to leave all those millions of people to die in their sin because we disagree with them and because they have a perverted book that doesn't portray accurately all that the Bible of Christains does.

What a silly notion, and what a SINFUL notion, all because a counterfeit book leads people astray from the one true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph.

The larger point here, Warren aside, is that the "concept" of "Allah" remains the same for the God of the Bible or for the god of the Koran. As the Koran is nothing more than a perversion of the Scriptures of Judeo-Christian origin, they "might" be used to instill the very basic concepts of God into Muslim adherents, for they -- like many (or even most) in Christendom -- do not understand their own scriptures but rather follow religious leaders and teachers who may also not understand their own religious writings. A careful apologist for Christianity can present many tenets of pure Christian doctrine FROM the Koran which can, under the leadership of the Holy Spirit, cause the Muslim listener to investigate further the claims of the true Scriptures.

Since you posted this to me, I have to ask..huh?

I never implied Muslims shouldn't be witnessed to. I was pointing out to Crab that Islam teaches a different gospel since he was trying to so hard to compare it to our true faith. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

 

[SolaSaint]

I have found a few more web sites that have commented about Warren and his outreach to Muslims. One had a quote from Warren at a Muslim service where he was praying or asking "The all merciful One". Why would he do that other than to smooth it over with Muslims. In John Piper's comments on the link above it sure seems certain that he feels Warren is wrong on this.

I love it that Warren wants to bring Muslims to faith, but he is going to hurt many Christians who believe our Christian God is the only God. This is always what happens when you waterdown the gospel to attract converts. How many Christians are reading and listening to what is going on at Saddleback that are now questioning if God is the only God? To me Warren is creating doubt for many weak believers and also positing a different god to the Muslims. This will just give both a false god, made up by Warren.

Warren really needs to clarify what he means in all this. Does he truly believe God is the same for Christians and Muslims or not.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Muslims believe Christ was A messiah, not THE messiah. There is a huge difference. Nowhere does the filthy Koran call Christ THE messiah.

If you do not worship Christ Jesus, then you do not worship the same God I do. If they deny the Holy Spirit, they do not worship the same God I do.

 

[Don]

No, I haven't. I have not looked for them. If any Moslem drew a caricature of Christ that person would be violating the commandment. I am not saying it does not happen, but I have not seen it.

If you have a link to a web site with such caricatures I would like to view it.

Crab, that's a re-direct.

Muslims are outraged by caricatures of Mohammed by "westerners" to the point of threatening and even assaulting the offenders. Your point is that muslims hold Jesus in high esteem; but where is their outrage, to the point of threatening and assaulting, over caricatures of Jesus? Admit it; it's not there. So by their actions regarding one but not the other, they prove their true viewpoint on our lord and savior.

One of the points of this thread is saying that muslims and Christians worship the same god; you have yet to support your apparent agreement.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Crab, that's a re-direct.

Muslims are outraged by caricatures of Mohammed by "westerners" to the point of threatening and even assaulting the offenders.

You are correct.

Your point is that muslims hold Jesus in high esteem; but where is their outrage, to the point of threatening and assaulting, over caricatures of Jesus? Admit it; it's not there. So by their actions regarding one but not the other, they prove their true viewpoint on our lord and savior.

A good question. I can only guess. My guess is that it is because they hold Mohammed in a higher regard than Jesus. For instance a Christian would become upset over a caricature of Jesus much more quickly than a caricature of Moses. As I said this is a guess. I wonder what a practicing Moslem would say.

One of the points of this thread is saying that muslims and Christians worship the same god; you have yet to support your apparent agreement.

It is what a person means by the phrase of "the same god." If they mean the same god and agreement in understanding than I would say it is not the same god. But in another light as they trace their beliefs back to Abraham, accept the OT, have a belief, a misguided one IMHO, believe in heaven and hell, in Christ's return, in predestination ... in this regard I see it as the same God. I do see their beliefs in God as misguided and in error.

I do not believe the extremist or terrorists who call themselves Moslem are worshiping the same God.

Do all who call themselves Christian believe in the same God?

 

[mandym]

I do not believe the extremist or terrorists who call themselves Moslem are worshiping the same God.

None of them are.

 

[glfredrick]

Since you posted this to me, I have to ask..huh?

I never implied Muslims shouldn't be witnessed to. I was pointing out to Crab that Islam teaches a different gospel since he was trying to so hard to compare it to our true faith. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

More that I springboarded after your thoughts.

No ruffling at all... :laugh: We're good! :saint:

 

[glfredrick]

I have found a few more web sites that have commented about Warren and his outreach to Muslims. One had a quote from Warren at a Muslim service where he was praying or asking "The all merciful One". Why would he do that other than to smooth it over with Muslims. In John Piper's comments on the link above it sure seems certain that he feels Warren is wrong on this.

I love it that Warren wants to bring Muslims to faith, but he is going to hurt many Christians who believe our Christian God is the only God. This is always what happens when you waterdown the gospel to attract converts. How many Christians are reading and listening to what is going on at Saddleback that are now questioning if God is the only God? To me Warren is creating doubt for many weak believers and also positing a different god to the Muslims. This will just give both a false god, made up by Warren.

Warren really needs to clarify what he means in all this. Does he truly believe God is the same for Christians and Muslims or not.

Question... Can we water down the gospel? Of what consequence? And, are you suggesting that God cannot handle Himself and has to rely on our efforts in this matter?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Since you posted this to me, I have to ask..huh?

I never implied Muslims shouldn't be witnessed to. I was pointing out to Crab that Islam teaches a different gospel since he was trying to so hard to compare it to our true faith. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

Amy, I agree. They teach a very different faith than that which Christians teach. I would say that Christians preach gospel [good news], I would not say that Islam teaches good news or gospel. Followers of Islam should be witnessed to and witnessed to intelligently. This means we have to know what they are taught so their errors can be pointed out rationally and intelligently.

I really do not believe I have compared faiths. I have tried to show that they have a knowledge of and respect for Jesus. I do believe their faith is quite misguided.

 

[Alive in Christ]

glfrederic...

The presumption I've mostly see expressed here on the board so far is that it is simply better to leave all those millions of people to die in their sin because we disagree with them and because they have a perverted book that doesn't portray accurately all that the Bible of Christains does.

That is not the problem. I dont think anyone on this thread would advocate just leaving then alone so they will be consigned to hell in due time.

The problem is presenting the idea that we worship the same God.

We do not. Our God is the true God.

Their God is a satanic counterfiet.

 

[Crabtownboy]

glfrederic...



That is not the problem. I dont think anyone on this thread would advocate just leaving then alone so they will be consigned to hell in due time.

The problem is presenting the idea that we worship the same God.

We do not. Our God is the true God.

Their God is a satanic counterfiet.

It would be much easier to correct the beliefs of someone who believes in the same God but with errors than to try to convince them their god is totally counterfeit and satanic.

 

[glfredrick]

It would be much easier to correct the beliefs of someone who believes in the same God but with errors than to try to convince them their god is totally counterfeit and satanic.

I disagree... Unless God intervene, I've seen no man change his mind, ESPECIALLY if "inoculated" with a little bit so he doesn't catch the real thing.

 

[Amy.G]

More that I springboarded after your thoughts.

No ruffling at all... :laugh: We're good! :saint:

Ok. LOL.. You scarred me. (That's southern for scared..:laugh

 

[SolaSaint]

Question... Can we water down the gospel? Of what consequence? And, are you suggesting that God cannot handle Himself and has to rely on our efforts in this matter?

Fred,

Yes we can water down the gospel and with consequences. I would never suggest God is incapable of anything. I'm concerned Warren's attempts at diminishing God to appease the Muslims will hurt weak Christians. And I'm convinced he has many weak Christians under his wing, as well as many who maybe lost and think their saved. It is real sad.

 

[DaChaser1]

Duh... Thus the reason for evangelization, which is Warren's context.

The presumption I've mostly see expressed here on the board so far is that it is simply better to leave all those millions of people to die in their sin because we disagree with them and because they have a perverted book that doesn't portray accurately all that the Bible of Christains does.

What a silly notion, and what a SINFUL notion, all because a counterfeit book leads people astray from the one true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph.

The larger point here, Warren aside, is that the "concept" of "Allah" remains the same for the God of the Bible or for the god of the Koran. As the Koran is nothing more than a perversion of the Scriptures of Judeo-Christian origin, they "might" be used to instill the very basic concepts of God into Muslim adherents, for they -- like many (or even most) in Christendom -- do not understand their own scriptures but rather follow religious leaders and teachers who may also not understand their own religious writings. A careful apologist for Christianity can present many tenets of pure Christian doctrine FROM the Koran which can, under the leadership of the Holy Spirit, cause the Muslim listener to investigate further the claims of the true Scriptures.

the truth is that Allah is the Muslim name for a false god, that its revelations sourced from satan himself...

We do need to give them the true gospel, but NOT at expenses of trying to find a middle accomdation with them!

Would say that christians can be filled with love of Christ towards Muslims, but NOT seeing their religion as worshipping same God!

 

[glfredrick]

Fred,

Yes we can water down the gospel and with consequences. I would never suggest God is incapable of anything. I'm concerned Warren's attempts at diminishing God to appease the Muslims will hurt weak Christians. And I'm convinced he has many weak Christians under his wing, as well as many who maybe lost and think their saved. It is real sad.

Who decides that? You, Warren, or perhaps, God?

You seem so worried that God cannot handle His own business!

 

[glfredrick]

the truth is that Allah is the Muslim name for a flase god, that its revelations sourced from satan himself...

We do need to gicve them the true gospel, but NOT at expenses of trying to find a middle accomdation with them!

We're not "trying to find a middle ground of accomodation with them."

We're using their own horrid counterfeit of the true Scriptures to lead them to a right relationship with Christ. We do likewise with the Book of Mormon, the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and others, yes, including using the Satanic Bible to lead Satanists to Christ.

There is a difference and in this instance I believe your take on the issue is being projected to Warren's actions instead of the missiological take that I have been speaking of.

Standard missiological practice... Just that there are SO FEW true missionaries represented here on the board. Lots of smoke and mirrors, lots of yelling and screaming about the Bible, etc., but little real action on the field from what I can gather, for most of the folks around here kniow too much about what (or whom) they are against instead of knowing how to use contextual missiological practices to win a people group to Christ.

Of note, from the Scriptures, is Paul's use of the writings of Greek philosophers to approach the lost at Mars Hill. He set a precident for using the materials at hand to point to Christ.

 

[DaChaser1]

We're not "trying to find a middle ground of accomodation with them."

We're using their own horrid counterfeit of the true Scriptures to lead them to a right relationship with Christ. We do likewise with the Book of Mormon, the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and others, yes, including using the Satanic Bible to lead Satanists to Christ.

There is a difference and in this instance I believe your take on the issue is being projected to Warren's actions instead of the missiological take that I have been speaking of.

Standard missiological practice... Just that there are SO FEW true missionaries represented here on the board. Lots of smoke and mirrors, lots of yelling and screaming about the Bible, etc., but little real action on the field from what I can gather, for most of the folks around here kniow too much about what (or whom) they are against instead of knowing how to use contextual missiological practices to win a people group to Christ.

Of note, from the Scriptures, is Paul's use of the writings of Greek philosophers to approach the lost at Mars Hill. He set a precident for using the materials at hand to point to Christ.

IF you are referring to the practice of Christians using their Koran and use that to compare/contrast with the Bible, and to show them that its the Bible that has the truth concerning salvation and Christ...

Or IF you mean thatwe take what they already say who jesus was and show them that he is much more, and contrast him to the prophet of Allah..

ALL for that, its just where we say that Muhhamed was a true prophet, Koran was inspired revelation, or that Allah is different term for same god ahve issues!

 

[SolaSaint]

Who decides that? You, Warren, or perhaps, God?

You seem so worried that God cannot handle His own business!

Fred,

What you are saying is that Christians are not to do Apologetics. Right?

 

[DaChaser1]

Fred,

What you are saying is that Christians are not to do Apologetics. Right?

I am just saying that its OK to witness and evangelise Muslims, just do NOT ackowledge that Allah is the real god, not Koran Holy Book, nor Muhhamed prophet of God!