Rick Warren & "Resisters", Those Believers Who Refuse To Change

Very good. So the lost found God even though they were not seeking him. How do you think that came to be?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph -

I thought I just posted the answer to that question. Maybe I am not understanding your question?

 

Blammo,

How do those who are not seeking God find him? It certainly isn't because of their desire to find him, is it?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Yes, God uses means! He uses believers who share the gospel to bring others to Himself! He uses preachers of the gospel to clearly preach the word of God! He can even use any other means He chooses to effect His purpose and will. We are responsible to share the gospel with others, no matter whether whether we think they are believers or not!

Some flee from Him but if they are to be His then He will use the means of His choice to bring them to Himself!

 

Read the verses I posted. And this one too:

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 

Romans 9:25-26 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

Ok. I think you have explained the means that God uses. Do you believe that the lost seek after God without being drawn by God? Does lost mankind naturally seek God on their own? Or does God need to make a change in their will?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Acts 17:26-30 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

Yes. I agree that God has commanded the lost to seek the Lord and repent. This, however, does not mean that the lost will do so...otherwise, everyone would be saved and there would be nobody in Hell. Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding, but are you advocating a universalist theology?

Joseph Botwinick

 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

Are you suggesting that God would never command man to do something unless man had the innate ability to comply? That's called semi-pelagianism, and it is soundly refuted in the Bible. For example, tell me you obey the 10 commandments in spirit and in deed, okay? Or if you have ever broken them in your thoughts or deeds, then find me someone who hasn't (besides Jesus).

Remember, those are commandments, so according to your reasoning, because God commanded these things, we must be able to comply.

 

Again, I agree. I think your error, however, is to assume, or imply that this means everyone is able to believe on their own accord. The Bible clearly teaches to the contrary.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Can you find any of my own words in that post?

1 Corinthians 1:20-21 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

1. I implied no such thing. If God says "seek Me", we can seek Him. I believe God draws all men, as Scripture states.

2. If you are a calvinist, you do read your own theological implications into Gods' Word, as it takes a lot to hold to only one verse while discounting the many.

 

I haven't seen any vendetta against HIM. However, we MUST stand up against the counterfiet gospel of ANYone who preaches a feel good religion.
No matter who it is or what denomination they come from.

 

Wow, just read that article by Warren!

Change? Change to what?
He deals with no doctrine, never states things that the "resistors" are doing that is biblically wrong...they just need to "Grow"
wow.

Amazing......this man is no true man of God.
He is a counterfiet and must be resisted!

 

Dale, I would be careful who you say is or isn't a "true man of God" and counterfeit. He doesn't preach a different Gospel, as he has been accused of by you.

 

Legalism. The "my church model is right, yours is wrong" attitude. That's what happens when you read an article that takes quotes from Warren out of context. Don't read what others say about him, read what HE says.

Again, read HIM, not what others say ABOUT him.

 

Your post is proof enough, as it is spoken from ignorance regarding his ministry.

 

I don't mean to put words into Rick Warren's mouth, but I'm guessing he thinks it feels good to be saved from an eternity in hell. I know I think it feels good, so if that's a feeel good religion, then I'd call it a complement.

I still think that most of the critics to the Purpose Driven method (which is not explained by Purpose Driven Life, but rather Purpsed Driven Church) are attacking about 25% of what Saddleback does and claims that is all they do. Strange behavior, I think.