Rick Warren & "Resisters", Those Believers Who Refuse To Change

yes, I am careful. We as Christians are to "judge righteous judgement"
I do not take that accusation lightly.

Wait just one minute!!! Who is saying that "people must leave or DIE???"

I never said that! "Legalism is surely a problem but the problem is here that all who hold to Biblical Christianity are being called "resistors" .
Yes, we are resistors! We are resisting a false Gospel, a gospel of mans own goodness.

Ididn't post that until I went and read from his own web site. Now maybe he has no control over what is posted on his own site, but if that can be trusted to be his own words, then I DID read him.

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean.

However, you consisitanly argue for a more man centered salvation (this is just my observation not menat to be an attack) so it is natural for your beliefs to go along with PDL.

After all, if it is man that can draw man, then why not do things like Warren?

Either God is God or man is god. I believe that God is ultimatly God and is sovereign over everything.
Growth for the sake of Growth is no excuse for weakening of the gospel or of alienating older people in the congregation.

 

who said anything about dying?
It is clear you don't understand what RW means by being a "resistor", so I will not waste my breath again. Believe RW teaches a false Gospel, if you wish. It's clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

I'm sure his website state that he preaches a man centered religion that's not the true Gospel, and everyone who believes in the truth are resistors...

Translation: "I'm a calvinist, and calvinism is the only God centered viewpoint there is. You aren't a calvinist, therefore you are man centered." Man, such arrogance...

Typical strawman. C'mon, you can do better...

Strawman episode II. This is becoming almost silly...

 

Hi there Webdog,

Are you Holy? God told you to be Holy. Are you perfect as God is perfect? God told you to be perfect as God is perfect. Have you ever lied after becoming a Christian? Have you ever coveted what your neighbor has? God has told us not to do all these things? You are reading a theological implication into the Bible that is not explicitly taught, and that is actually taught explicitly to the contrary. I have discounted nothing in Scripture, only your implications that you read into Scripture. You, on the other hand, have dicsounted the explicit teaching of Scripture while reading your own implied theology into the Bible. This is, indeed, a bad place to stand for you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Amen and Amen! This is certainly the beginning of a strong rebuke by the Word of God against man centered theology and evangelism. You will also note what Paul further says in Chapter 2 right after this in verses 1-5.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Well, Rick Warren did. It is right there on his own website where you can read his own words about it and not the words of others who don't like him.

Link

Joseph Botwinick

 

I have never claimed to be a Calvinist.
However, there is only ONE true viewpoint. Either God is in control and chooses man or man chooses God. Can't have it both ways. One way is Biblical and one way is not Biblical.
You believe that man chooses God isn't that right?
I believe that God Chooses man and there is nothing man can do to earn God's favor.

One of us is right, and one of us is wrong.

If we can't agree there, then how are we going to agree on PDL?

 

Are you telling me that we can't strive to be holy, perfect as God is, a non liar and a non coverter? If we can, we can seek Him! You have an agenda, and you are twisting Scripture and meanings to prove your point.

And again, the same can be said about what you are doing.

I would suggest reading what you just posted while looking at yourself in the mirror. Your whole argument is based on "I'm right, you're wrong".

 

The quote above sounds like something Hitler said about those he hated.

DISEASES?? Come on. The only natural growth comes from his understanding, and "remove" others that restrict this????? Scary stuff.

 

yeah, it is so plain on Warren's website. Don't know how anyone could argue with that.

 

Perhaps we need a final solution to get rid of the "resistors"?

 

According to who...you? God makes the rules, and if He says it can and is both ways, who are you to argue?

Or we are both right on some points, and wrong on some points. Nobody has perfect theology.

 

Hi there Webdog,

The Bible does not instruct us to strive to be perfect as God is perfect, or to strive to be holy as God is holy. It says be perfect and holy. Again, you are reading a theological implication into Scripture that is not explicitly taught in Scripture. Lost man does not seek God, and neither do they strive to seek God. As a matter of fact, they are hostile to God and at emnity with him. Those are the explicit teachings of Scripture. If you can find an explicit teaching of Scripture that says otherwise, we will talk and try and figure it out together.

Joseph Botwinick

 

So, what is the context of "die"? Is it "I will murder you, or God will", as seems to be implied, or is the CORRECT context explaining an inward, self centered church that wants nothing to do with evangelism, where the same members who have been doing the same thing will continue until they die? I wonder...

 

So you are saying God says we can be something that we cannot, correct?

 

The "disease" is the person who wants to do what they have always done, which ends in results they have always gotten. The church that wants to grow away from the four walls, and quit being inward only to reach the lost will come across some people who will fight change. If you haven't seen these people in your churches, you must not have gone to church long enough.
I'm amazed that the great scholarly calvinists who know how to exegete Scripture perfectly in full context, keep pulling quotes from RW out of context...:tear:

 

Nope. I didn't say that, and neither did Jesus. Jesus never said we could be holy this side of heaven.

Joseph Botwinick

 

It sounds more like the disease is somebody who disagrees with Rick Warrens man centered theology and dares to stand against it. I wonder if Rick prayed for the death of members of his Church as he built his tyrannical, abusive empire.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Why would it sound like anything other than that to you?

I wonder if you are praying for the death of Rick Warren?

 

Really? I'm covered under the blood of Christ, making me holy in the same way AAron was holy after having the blood from the alter sprinkled on him...

Exo 29:21 Then you shall take part of the blood that is on the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it on Aaron and his garments, and on his sons and his sons' garments with him. He and his garments shall be holy, and his sons and his sons' garments with him.

 

No. I don't pray for his death. I do pray that God will drop the scales from his eyes and that those who are caught up in his false teachings and man centered theology will open their eyes and see the truth of the Bible. It isn't me, however, who we should even be discussing since I am not the one who wished death on those who disagree with me. I am not the fundamentalist extremist who declared a jihad on the infidel resistors. That would be Rick Warren.:wavey:

Joseph Botwinick