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Rick Warren Speaks out
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Mikey
Active Member
Whole bunch of waffle. Speaking but not saying anything
.
He doesn't actually expalin what he believes or doesn't believe, or why. except he rejects both (apparently though fails to explain why they're wrong) becuase of indepth study (which he fails to explain, which texts, verses etc nothing) and talks about Traditions of the pharisees (but doesnt explain how the complementarian or egalitarin are just traditions opposed to God's command) then talks about woman having leadership abilities and the need to share the gospel. (which neither position disagrees with).
It just waffle, fluff. And he's clearly in practice sides with the egalitarians.
I plowed through the link and was all set to post when I came across Mikey's post which presents the same conclusions I reached, Pastor Warren's position is egalitarian, but claims it is not. Like Calvinists, He is long on saying what He does not believe and short on the specifics of what He does believe.
The issue is whether the principle of not allowing women to exercise authority in the home and in the church is a cultural accommodation, the accepted view at that time being women were not leaders but appointed by God to be followers. Pastor Warren alluded to contradictory positions found in scripture, i.e. there is no difference between slave and free, Jew and Gentile, male or female in Christ.
The accommodation folks think scripture accepted the existing culture (all things to all people) in order to bridge the gap, but then sets about to ameliorate the ungodly facets of the culture with directives toward transitioning to a Christian culture of love and respect for everyone.
As an example, consider when first inaugurated, the USA accommodated a totally wicked form of slavery, but about 70 years later, sufficient numbers of believers understood there is no difference between a slave and a free person in Christ, and we all should treat those enslaved as our brothers, with love and respect. Note our battle hymn, as Christ died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.
The issue is whether the principle of not allowing women to exercise authority in the home and in the church is a cultural accommodation, the accepted view at that time being women were not leaders but appointed by God to be followers. Pastor Warren alluded to contradictory positions found in scripture, i.e. there is no difference between slave and free, Jew and Gentile, male or female in Christ.
The accommodation folks think scripture accepted the existing culture (all things to all people) in order to bridge the gap, but then sets about to ameliorate the ungodly facets of the culture with directives toward transitioning to a Christian culture of love and respect for everyone.
As an example, consider when first inaugurated, the USA accommodated a totally wicked form of slavery, but about 70 years later, sufficient numbers of believers understood there is no difference between a slave and a free person in Christ, and we all should treat those enslaved as our brothers, with love and respect. Note our battle hymn, as Christ died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.
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Well, I agree with him that Complementarianism and Egalitarianism are both junk. I prefer Biblical Patriarchy.
Probably one of the very few things I agree with Rick Warren on.
Of course, his stance of having women "pastors" is all you need to know about his Bible exegesis or lack thereof.
Probably one of the very few things I agree with Rick Warren on.
Of course, his stance of having women "pastors" is all you need to know about his Bible exegesis or lack thereof.
He promotes women pastors, and refuses to have solid teaching. He is 2 Timothy 4:3 personified.
The ‘Bud Light’ of Pastors! A serious disappointment as a Christian. What he is doing is attempting to expand his market. 
Yes in California
There are a few people on the BB that do the same thing.
Rob
1 Timothy 2: 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Timothy 3: 1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
I don't care what Rick Warren has to say, I go to scripture... Rick Warren can do what he wants to and does and many follow him but I believe The Apostle Paul not Rick Warren... Wrong is wrong and you cannot make wrong right... The injustice done is to Rick Warren and his pathetic satanic interpretation of scripture... Brother Glen
Btw... A woman is saved in child bearing as we all are, Mary bore Jesus Christ the Son Of God our Savior and that is how any of us are saved!
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37818
Well-Known Member
The she, is singular, referring to Eve in the birth of the Christ.
Sounds rather speculative, are there verses that contextually support this assertion?
37818
Well-Known Member
After reading the reference of the post I agree with Rick Warren.
He's taken a strong stand against legalism...he's no Pharisee.
I agree that both the egalitarian and complementarian positions have weaknesses (and strengths).
I personally am not a risk taker so I'd bow out of the debate and not have women pastors
(I'd simply label them something else and let them do the tasks at hand, which is what many churches do).
Rick Warren is much bolder and obviously a Leader, so he took the hard road.
Rob
He's taken a strong stand against legalism...he's no Pharisee.
I agree that both the egalitarian and complementarian positions have weaknesses (and strengths).
I personally am not a risk taker so I'd bow out of the debate and not have women pastors
(I'd simply label them something else and let them do the tasks at hand, which is what many churches do).
Rick Warren is much bolder and obviously a Leader, so he took the hard road.
Rob
At first I agreed with you. But now I'm not so sure.
The reason is we can find problems with two things and simply not have a solution.
NT Wright did this with Justification (he suggested we visit the topic because he concluded the current doctrine was problematic. BUT when he offered the NPP he also said I was not without issues.
When I first rejected the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement I was in the same boat. I realized holding Scripture as thel standard for doctrine and Penal Substitution Theory was not possible, but I did not have a ready solution. I couldn't keep believing what I knew was false and had to be patient in studying God's Word (for a couple of years).
So I can see how the man can reject both views yet not have anything substantial to offer. Maybe he doesn't need to offer anything at all.
Like I say brethren on here can believe what they want and if they want to go the way of Rick Warren so be it... I do not go to your church and you don't go to mine but with true conviction I can say... And there no use beating this dead horse, and these are my last words in this discussion... NOT IN MY CHURCH!... Brother Glen
Not in ours either. I'm not saying he is right (or wrong). Just that he may not necessarily be compromising or waffling.Like I say brethren on here can believe what they want and if they want to go the way of Rick Warren so be it... I do not go to your church and you don't go to mine but with true conviction I can say... And there no use beating this dead horse, and these are my last words in this discussion... NOT IN MY CHURCH!... Brother Glen
No women pastors/elders in the church I attend as well
...but we have women deacons,
women who meet together to plan women's ministries,
a woman who serves as a business manager (reporting offerings, checks and balances, budget etc.),
women who organize and direct family outings,
women who teach children and youth,
women who organize women's events and teach them,
women missionaries,
women who serve the needy and who and organize groups to provide meals for them,
they serve a pastoral role by another name, imho,
Oh, we have men's ministries as well. lol
Rob
...but we have women deacons,
women who meet together to plan women's ministries,
a woman who serves as a business manager (reporting offerings, checks and balances, budget etc.),
women who organize and direct family outings,
women who teach children and youth,
women who organize women's events and teach them,
women missionaries,
women who serve the needy and who and organize groups to provide meals for them,
they serve a pastoral role by another name, imho,
Oh, we have men's ministries as well. lol
Rob