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Rick Warren's Wacky environmental agenda
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
An fyi that Alcoholics Anonymous was a program developed by Christians. Here is an outline of the 12 steps which has currently been modified to be more inclusive of alcoholics of any religious background but initially it was a Christian program.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Gold Dragon, it was not a christian program, it was spiritual.
Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith, the ones who started the 12 atep program were not christians. They were into seances and the occult.
I encourage you to get a copy of the book Pass It on: The Story of Bill Wilson and How the A. A. Message Reached the World
Publisher: Alcoholics Anonymous World Serv Inc (December 1, 1984)
Also, Alcoholics Anonymous Unmasked by Dr. Cathy Burns
Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith, the ones who started the 12 atep program were not christians. They were into seances and the occult.
I encourage you to get a copy of the book Pass It on: The Story of Bill Wilson and How the A. A. Message Reached the World
Publisher: Alcoholics Anonymous World Serv Inc (December 1, 1984)
Also, Alcoholics Anonymous Unmasked by Dr. Cathy Burns
eloidalmanutha
New Member
thanx
you beat me to it
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
What Mr. Wilson got involved in later in life does not change the fact that AA was created in the context of a Christian group.
[ February 19, 2006, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Gold Dragon ]
I have to laugh when I hear the talk about how evil and satanic.... alcoholics anonymous is. I am not sure how freeing a habitual drunk like myself (probably at least two six packs a day or more) and bring him to a life of complete abstinance for the last 26 years, was a plot of the evil one.
I can assure you that there were no leadings to worship any other God. But then neither was there requirement to worship a specific God. It was about solving the drink problem so we could approach life with a clear head.
So we've got groups of unorganized individuals who meet weekly, take no dues, no fees..... do pass the hat to cover coffee and cookies.... ... and are trying to help each other quit drinking.... What a threat to Christianity.
A.A. presses no agenda, doesn't get involved in any outside issues. It is about helping drunks quit drinking...........
I haven't attended meeting myself for some time, but I would never discourage anyone from attending. Neither would I at this time insist that they do anything other than seek God. And I would by the way invite them to my church, and ask them to call me anytime they wanted to talk.
There are posted above the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous..... Which is the big threat....
I can assure you that there were no leadings to worship any other God. But then neither was there requirement to worship a specific God. It was about solving the drink problem so we could approach life with a clear head.
So we've got groups of unorganized individuals who meet weekly, take no dues, no fees..... do pass the hat to cover coffee and cookies.... ... and are trying to help each other quit drinking.... What a threat to Christianity.
A.A. presses no agenda, doesn't get involved in any outside issues. It is about helping drunks quit drinking...........
I haven't attended meeting myself for some time, but I would never discourage anyone from attending. Neither would I at this time insist that they do anything other than seek God. And I would by the way invite them to my church, and ask them to call me anytime they wanted to talk.
There are posted above the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous..... Which is the big threat....
eloidalmanutha
New Member
While I would agree that AA has helped many alcoholics stay sober, there is a deeper issue at stake - one of spirituality - and that is the trade off - the hook is AA itself. And by your own statement - it is not a "christian" organization.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
They allow one to say there is a higher power, but if you say Jesus is the only way, out the door you go.
AA does teach abstinence, but they keep people branded as drunkards. Even when they have been off the alcohol for 26 years.
Thank God when Christ sets you free, you are no longer an alcoholic, a drug addict, a thief, a murderer. No longer bound by the thoughts that you are still held responsible for past sin. Whom the Son makes free, is free indeed. A new creature instantly! Praise the Lord!
AA does teach abstinence, but they keep people branded as drunkards. Even when they have been off the alcohol for 26 years.
Thank God when Christ sets you free, you are no longer an alcoholic, a drug addict, a thief, a murderer. No longer bound by the thoughts that you are still held responsible for past sin. Whom the Son makes free, is free indeed. A new creature instantly! Praise the Lord!
eloidalmanutha
New Member
In the quest to solve social issues such as alcoholism, AA, because it has a "proven record", is the "chosen" cureall. If an employee, student, DUI requirements, released prisoners with alcohoism need a "program", etc. - they are mandated to attend AA meetings in order to fulfill a stated course of action.
I agree wholeheartedly that Jesus/His Word is the only answer to alcoholism. Unfortunately, even the church supports AA. Many churches open their doors to AA meetings, unknowingly assisting in a program that keeps people in the cycle of meetings and dependent on the program to stay alcohol free - because it is perceived to be a christian organization.
This is just another symptom of a greater issue. We no longer have the chutzpah to stay in the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to cleanse, discipline, renew,and transform. Just another compromise in a very long list, of how christianity is allowing secularism to take the place of a submitted life to God.
Is it any wonder that so many are led astray spiritually because they have no clue how to contend for the faith
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Hi, my name is Ron and I am addicted to the Word of the Lord.
It started out with just one verse a day. Then, I thought I could handle it, I began reading more. Now, I read whole chapters and whole books. The flesh wants to put the book down, but my mind craves more.
My name is Ron and I am a Bible-o-holic. I do not need help, I need more of Jesus and less of flesh.
It started out with just one verse a day. Then, I thought I could handle it, I began reading more. Now, I read whole chapters and whole books. The flesh wants to put the book down, but my mind craves more.
My name is Ron and I am a Bible-o-holic. I do not need help, I need more of Jesus and less of flesh.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
well, we had better get back to Rick Warren's Wacky environmental agenda or the thread may get closed.
Maybe I will start an AA and the Word of God thread as soon as I can figger where it should go.
Maybe I will start an AA and the Word of God thread as soon as I can figger where it should go.
I was a 12 pack a day of beer by the age of 21.
Along with cocaine and pot to go along with that.
I was a high school drop out to boot.
I was in jail for my second DUI. It was during that 30 days of county jail that I repented of my sins and gave my life to Christ. Even though I had walked a aisle and got dipped in the water at my baptist church.
That was the last day I haven't touched a drop of booze since that day or drugs. That has been 17yrs. now. It seems like a different life.
I had to attend AA and some other rehab stints by law in order to pay my debt to society.
I would go into those AA meetings. When I had to stand and say that famous quote "I'm shannon and I'm a alcoholic" I refused to do it.
I would stand up and say "I'm shannon ledford and I used to be and alcoholic". Mercy would that get them going in there.
I would then tell the whole group including the councelor how I got saved and God took the booze and drugs from me.
You see AA is a okay thing.Yet all it "Might" do is "reform" a man at best.
When you get saved you get "regenerated" BIG DIFFERENCE.
Sure AA helps some but it isn't designed to point folk to salvation. In fact one of the dangers of such recovery programs is it convinces some folk that they don't need to be saved.
Unless your "higher power" is Jesus Christ at the time of your death your going to hell.
Alot of folk who quit drinking and go to AA simply left one form of bondage to be shackeled to another.
The burden to stay sober is placed upon them having to stay clean and make it to a meeting etc... That is fine nothing wrong with it I suppose.
Yet I'm afraid that some of these recovery programs have caused some to put less than their total faith in what the power of Almighty God can do.
I know if I went to a bar tonight I could probably drink it dry I guess.
But you see the thing that is so wonderful is the fact that Jesus can do what AA can never do and that is just bury that sin of being a drunk as far as the east is from the west. With AA they are always reminding you of what a Drunk you could be. Tell me they don't?
Shoot the first thing you have to do is stand up and say "I'm so and so and I'm a alcoholic"
Accoring to AA your never cured. With Jesus it is a whole different ballgame.
Jesus Christ can cure you of being a drunk in ONE STEP. Yes being a drunk is a sin. If alot more folk would own up to that instead of blaming it on mom and dad or their poor enviroment etc... they would find the cure for what ails them alot quicker.
It would probably blow the doors off all the SUV's in Saddleback's parking lot if ole RW got up there and preached a scorching message against the evils of booze and how it can ruin your life and take you straight to hell if it gets such a chokehold on your life that you never come to Jesus.
I like what the ole SBC evangelist Bill Stafford told me one time when I shared a little bit of my testimony with him.
He said "You just up and switched fountains didn't ya son?" I loved that.
My name is Shannon Ledford and I used to be a
lying, selfish, coniving dopehead and drunk.
Until my precious Savior washed me whiter than snow. He picked me up out of the mirey clay and sat my feet on the "solid rock".
For some it may take more than one step but let us never forget that God is the God of the impossible. I'm afraid allowing all these theraputic self help programs into churches is doing just that.
Churches everywhere are discontinuing their Sunday night services or their Wed. Night services. Instead they are substituting that for a bunch of "support groups" everything from AA to you name it.
Just imagine what would happen if the man of God scrapped all that bunk and preached hard at least twice a week from God's book?
Truth of the matter is this we have a bunch of lazy preachers in america today. They don't want to have services 3x a week where they have to preach because they don't have the time because they're to busy running off to some silly little seminar somewhere instead of getting on their knees before God and asking him to burn a message into their hearts. If they aren't running off to some seminar they're downloading some big shot's sermon so they can preach that.
I tell you if your a preacher and you read this and your doing that you need to give your paycheck back to your congregation.
Yes I've pastored. Its hard there is never time to do what you need to do. etc..etc.. But the truth of the matter is this :
This country is going to hell in a hand basket and judgement is coming and it is going to start with the church and what that means is the preachers are going to be held responsible.
I include myself right in there.
This retarded business of you got to be sensitive and non offensive when your trying to preach the Word to lost and dying men is a lie right out of the pit of hell.
Go read ACTS you'll not find a Gospel with rounded edges there.
People say well the times are changing Its a post christian world blah blah blah.
You find me some people that were more messed up than the folk Paul wrote to?
What the American church is starving for today even if they don't know it is not another stupid self help book or how to cope book or some sermon series about how to be who God made you to be and blah blah blah.
What they need is some preachers with some
intestinal fortitude, some backbone, some plain ole guts
If your out there tonight and this just makes your blood boil then all I can say is sometimes the truth hurts.
If your out there and your saying right on brother then you just keep on keepin on. Don't cave in to this "seeker friendly" bologna.
Along with cocaine and pot to go along with that.
I was a high school drop out to boot.
I was in jail for my second DUI. It was during that 30 days of county jail that I repented of my sins and gave my life to Christ. Even though I had walked a aisle and got dipped in the water at my baptist church.
That was the last day I haven't touched a drop of booze since that day or drugs. That has been 17yrs. now. It seems like a different life.
I had to attend AA and some other rehab stints by law in order to pay my debt to society.
I would go into those AA meetings. When I had to stand and say that famous quote "I'm shannon and I'm a alcoholic" I refused to do it.
I would stand up and say "I'm shannon ledford and I used to be and alcoholic". Mercy would that get them going in there.
I would then tell the whole group including the councelor how I got saved and God took the booze and drugs from me.
You see AA is a okay thing.Yet all it "Might" do is "reform" a man at best.
When you get saved you get "regenerated" BIG DIFFERENCE.
Sure AA helps some but it isn't designed to point folk to salvation. In fact one of the dangers of such recovery programs is it convinces some folk that they don't need to be saved.
Unless your "higher power" is Jesus Christ at the time of your death your going to hell.
Alot of folk who quit drinking and go to AA simply left one form of bondage to be shackeled to another.
The burden to stay sober is placed upon them having to stay clean and make it to a meeting etc... That is fine nothing wrong with it I suppose.
Yet I'm afraid that some of these recovery programs have caused some to put less than their total faith in what the power of Almighty God can do.
I know if I went to a bar tonight I could probably drink it dry I guess.
But you see the thing that is so wonderful is the fact that Jesus can do what AA can never do and that is just bury that sin of being a drunk as far as the east is from the west. With AA they are always reminding you of what a Drunk you could be. Tell me they don't?
Shoot the first thing you have to do is stand up and say "I'm so and so and I'm a alcoholic"
Accoring to AA your never cured. With Jesus it is a whole different ballgame.
Jesus Christ can cure you of being a drunk in ONE STEP. Yes being a drunk is a sin. If alot more folk would own up to that instead of blaming it on mom and dad or their poor enviroment etc... they would find the cure for what ails them alot quicker.
It would probably blow the doors off all the SUV's in Saddleback's parking lot if ole RW got up there and preached a scorching message against the evils of booze and how it can ruin your life and take you straight to hell if it gets such a chokehold on your life that you never come to Jesus.
I like what the ole SBC evangelist Bill Stafford told me one time when I shared a little bit of my testimony with him.
He said "You just up and switched fountains didn't ya son?" I loved that.
My name is Shannon Ledford and I used to be a
lying, selfish, coniving dopehead and drunk.
Until my precious Savior washed me whiter than snow. He picked me up out of the mirey clay and sat my feet on the "solid rock".
For some it may take more than one step but let us never forget that God is the God of the impossible. I'm afraid allowing all these theraputic self help programs into churches is doing just that.
Churches everywhere are discontinuing their Sunday night services or their Wed. Night services. Instead they are substituting that for a bunch of "support groups" everything from AA to you name it.
Just imagine what would happen if the man of God scrapped all that bunk and preached hard at least twice a week from God's book?
Truth of the matter is this we have a bunch of lazy preachers in america today. They don't want to have services 3x a week where they have to preach because they don't have the time because they're to busy running off to some silly little seminar somewhere instead of getting on their knees before God and asking him to burn a message into their hearts. If they aren't running off to some seminar they're downloading some big shot's sermon so they can preach that.
I tell you if your a preacher and you read this and your doing that you need to give your paycheck back to your congregation.
Yes I've pastored. Its hard there is never time to do what you need to do. etc..etc.. But the truth of the matter is this :
This country is going to hell in a hand basket and judgement is coming and it is going to start with the church and what that means is the preachers are going to be held responsible.
I include myself right in there.
This retarded business of you got to be sensitive and non offensive when your trying to preach the Word to lost and dying men is a lie right out of the pit of hell.
Go read ACTS you'll not find a Gospel with rounded edges there.
People say well the times are changing Its a post christian world blah blah blah.
You find me some people that were more messed up than the folk Paul wrote to?
What the American church is starving for today even if they don't know it is not another stupid self help book or how to cope book or some sermon series about how to be who God made you to be and blah blah blah.
What they need is some preachers with some
intestinal fortitude, some backbone, some plain ole guts
If your out there tonight and this just makes your blood boil then all I can say is sometimes the truth hurts.
If your out there and your saying right on brother then you just keep on keepin on. Don't cave in to this "seeker friendly" bologna.
T
TaterTot
Guest
now tell us how you really feel, Shannon, LOL
Goodness, I had no idea you had such a neat testimony. Thanks for sharing that.
Goodness, I had no idea you had such a neat testimony. Thanks for sharing that.
Yes Thanks shannon..
Now Moderators please close this thread.. It is disgusting how people that are Christians are slandering a brother in Christ.. and lost visit this board..
Besides we are way off topic of the OP.
I will not post on this thread anymore..
I am disgusted by all the ones that continue to slander a fellow brother.. it is just not right.
Now Moderators please close this thread.. It is disgusting how people that are Christians are slandering a brother in Christ.. and lost visit this board..
Besides we are way off topic of the OP.
I will not post on this thread anymore..
I am disgusted by all the ones that continue to slander a fellow brother.. it is just not right.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
No one is slandering anyone. The Bible says 'By thy words thou shalt be justified, by thy words thou shalt be condemned'.
If anyone is slandered here, it is by their own words.
If anyone is slandered here, it is by their own words.
eloidalmanutha
New Member
shannon - there ain't nothin' better than a good old fashioned testimony - and you wowed us good!!! you just keep preaching, man, cause you have the message and it's burning in yer heart. I love it, love it, love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps: you are RIGHT ON, BRO!!!!
ps: you are RIGHT ON, BRO!!!!
eloidalmanutha
New Member
Now that preaches as well
maybe we could form some kind of Jesus only group where the Word is actually the "purpose", and the "driven", and the "life"
“I hate to hear the terrors of the Lord proclaimed by men whose hard countenances, harsh tones, and unfeeling spirits betray a sort of doctrinal dehydration: all the milk of human kindness is dried out of them. Having no feeling himself, such a preacher creates none. The people sit and listen while he keeps to dry, lifeless statements. They come to value him for being “sound,” and they themselves come to be sound, too. I need not add, sound asleep. What life they have is spent snuffing out heresy and making earnest men offenders for a word. May we never be baptized into this spirit!”
From The Soulwinner by C.H. Spurgeon pg 19
From The Soulwinner by C.H. Spurgeon pg 19