Rick Warren's Wacky environmental agenda

[Blackhawkk]

Preach it Shannon!

We need less Rick Warrens & Joel Olsteens and more Charles Spurgeons & Finneys!

Die to self, live for Christ!

 

[shannonL]

Brice,

Whatever you think about me is fine. It is your opinion. I love lost folk dearly. I don't go around hitting everybody in the head with my big family bible.
Yet in mainstream christianity the pendulum has swung almost to the other side to the point that it seems to me the chief virtue one is expected to have today is a poor view of tolerance.
Well you need to read the book of Jude and a few others. Not everybody who claims to be a preacher is true blue.
Today it is considered hip or cool or in to not hide your light under a basket but don't let it shine to brightly either cause it might hurt some folks eyes.
What we have in the american church today is
powder puff preaching.
BTW, Brice Spurgeon was dead on. It is detrimental to one's spiritual vitality if all a fellow does is run around be critical.
Yet Spurgeon also took a stand against compromise in his day when he left the Baptist Union.
IF we had preaching in these mega churches like what was being done at Spurgeon's tabernacle we might see a real move of God.
I only use mega churches as an example because it seems they help to set trends in this country.

BTW, here is what I think may be interesting co-relation. In the last 10 years mega churches have grown at a phenomenal rate. Where once there was only a handful of churches that ran over 2 0r 3 thousand now those kind of churches # in the 100's.
Yet using the SBC for an example. In interview recently DR. Rankin talked about how the IMB had sort of leveled out as far as the # of missionaries are concerned. It seems they are holding their own at 5000. The folk who are willing to go is fantanstic. The goal was to have about 8000 missionaries by around a certain year. Well the personel is available but the money isn't. The giving has been holding steady but not increasing enough to bring on new missionaries.

So here is my theory . Sure they're are alot of dead SBC churches within the 40,000 or so. But I find it odd in this land of plenty we are seeing a dramatic upswing in the # of mega churches which supposedly has pulled some folk out of dead baptist churches that were not doing anything much for the Lord. Supposedly these big churches should be able to do more because they have more.Yet it doesn't look like it. Could it be that most of their money goes to pacify Johnny Christian here in the states. Keep him comfortable and wanting to come to church?

I mean when you got to have all the modern day eminities it takes these days to just come to church in america no wonder missions givng is suffering. Christians here in the states don't know what it is like to go without in order to meet the needs of fulfilling the great commission. So what these big churches do something for missions. It sure isn't cramping their style to do it.

BTW, where is the big bump in baptisms if the # of mega churches are increasing?
I hate to pick on the SBC but they are the largest protestant denomination in the world so they are better equipped to keep stats.
I'm just afraid in America we are very rich but very poor as well. We have every kind of church that offers everykind of style of worship along with everykind of program you can think of yet missionaries that are called of God can't get to the field because the money isn't there.

Like my daddy always said "The proof is in the pudding". And the fact is. If the church growth movement was all it claims to be. We would be seeing more folk saved and more missions giving but we don't.
I'm not against the big church. I believe there is a big church and a little church to be found in the book of Acts.
I'm just against those who pastor some of these plush have everything you want palaces who claim to be the trend setters. Out on the cutting edge yet we see know proof that they have got it going on like they claim.
I bet we could get more missionaries to the field if we stopped building gyms and cafes and all that bologna and funneled that money into lottie moon or other faith based mission agencies.
Something is out of balance when some folk in the world meet under trees to have church and here in the states we have churches that rival shopping malls as far as what they have inside them. All this so we will keep coming back to church.

God help us.

 

[shannonL]

that would be "no proof" not know proof. I didn't check my last post.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The agenda of the mega churches seems to be self-centered more than Christ-centered. To draw people in for instance, RW offers several different kinds of worship services. If you like Rock music, go here. If you like Southern Gospel, go here. Praise here, Traditional hymns here, etc... Churches seem to draw people in by offering them worldly pleasures instead of Godly principles. Sin is brushed under the carpet and man is accepted.

The Bible says when one is saved, the old is gone and the man is new. Yet, Saddleback baptizes people living together unmarried. Even though they will baptize them identifying them as a member of the body of Christ, they still will not allow that one to join the church community because of their unbiblical living arrangements.

Excuse me??? Baptism is an outward profession of faith in Christ and not to be taken lightly. If the church knows for a fact someone is living a sinful lifestyle, the church should refuse to baptize that person until that person repents and gets his heart right with the Lord.

This is the kind of church of tomorrow... one that dances around sin and tells people they can be saved and hold onto sin as well.

My God, help us!

 

[ronnieward]

Here is a short take on church growth:

http://christianunplugged.com/church_movie.htm

I found it at http://fide-o.blogspot.com/

Maybe some humor will lift the mood of this thread.

Ronnie

 

[Hope of Glory]

Growth for the sake of growth is the theology of a cancer.

I believe it was John Milton who said that, but I'm not sure.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Actually, it was Edward Abbey.

And what he said was:

“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.”

 

[Hope of Glory]

Thanks. I remembered the concept of the quote, and I liked the correlation, but I did not commit it to memory, nor did I remember who said it.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

no prob.

It was very close. And there is truth in it either way. Growth for the sake of growth and not for the sake of Christ is a cancer.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Blackhawkk:
We need less Rick Warrens & Joel Olsteens and more Charles Spurgeons & Finneys!

Could someone please explain how this is not slander? I do not know much about Joel Osteen except what I have heard second-hand so I will not comment, but from what I have read of Rick Warren's writings (PDL, some of PDC) he has a credible profession of faith and should therefore be presumed to be our brother in Christ. I cannot understand anyone saying something like this about a brother in Christ.

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by shannonL:
Brice,

Whatever you think about me is fine. It is your opinion. I love lost folk dearly. I don't go around hitting everybody in the head with my big family bible.
Yet in mainstream christianity the pendulum has swung almost to the other side to the point that it seems to me the chief virtue one is expected to have today is a poor view of tolerance.
Well you need to read the book of Jude and a few others. Not everybody who claims to be a preacher is true blue.
Today it is considered hip or cool or in to not hide your light under a basket but don't let it shine to brightly either cause it might hurt some folks eyes.
What we have in the american church today is
powder puff preaching.
BTW, Brice Spurgeon was dead on. It is detrimental to one's spiritual vitality if all a fellow does is run around be critical.
Yet Spurgeon also took a stand against compromise in his day when he left the Baptist Union.
IF we had preaching in these mega churches like what was being done at Spurgeon's tabernacle we might see a real move of God.
I only use mega churches as an example because it seems they help to set trends in this country.

BTW, here is what I think may be interesting co-relation. In the last 10 years mega churches have grown at a phenomenal rate. Where once there was only a handful of churches that ran over 2 0r 3 thousand now those kind of churches # in the 100's.
Yet using the SBC for an example. In interview recently DR. Rankin talked about how the IMB had sort of leveled out as far as the # of missionaries are concerned. It seems they are holding their own at 5000. The folk who are willing to go is fantanstic. The goal was to have about 8000 missionaries by around a certain year. Well the personel is available but the money isn't. The giving has been holding steady but not increasing enough to bring on new missionaries.

So here is my theory . Sure they're are alot of dead SBC churches within the 40,000 or so. But I find it odd in this land of plenty we are seeing a dramatic upswing in the # of mega churches which supposedly has pulled some folk out of dead baptist churches that were not doing anything much for the Lord. Supposedly these big churches should be able to do more because they have more.Yet it doesn't look like it. Could it be that most of their money goes to pacify Johnny Christian here in the states. Keep him comfortable and wanting to come to church?

I mean when you got to have all the modern day eminities it takes these days to just come to church in america no wonder missions givng is suffering. Christians here in the states don't know what it is like to go without in order to meet the needs of fulfilling the great commission. So what these big churches do something for missions. It sure isn't cramping their style to do it.

BTW, where is the big bump in baptisms if the # of mega churches are increasing?
I hate to pick on the SBC but they are the largest protestant denomination in the world so they are better equipped to keep stats.
I'm just afraid in America we are very rich but very poor as well. We have every kind of church that offers everykind of style of worship along with everykind of program you can think of yet missionaries that are called of God can't get to the field because the money isn't there.

Like my daddy always said "The proof is in the pudding". And the fact is. If the church growth movement was all it claims to be. We would be seeing more folk saved and more missions giving but we don't.
I'm not against the big church. I believe there is a big church and a little church to be found in the book of Acts.
I'm just against those who pastor some of these plush have everything you want palaces who claim to be the trend setters. Out on the cutting edge yet we see know proof that they have got it going on like they claim.
I bet we could get more missionaries to the field if we stopped building gyms and cafes and all that bologna and funneled that money into lottie moon or other faith based mission agencies.
Something is out of balance when some folk in the world meet under trees to have church and here in the states we have churches that rival shopping malls as far as what they have inside them. All this so we will keep coming back to church.

God help us.

Shannon,

I have no personal problem with you. I don't think badly of you and that quote wasn't directly related to you, but more of a general frame of reference. I have read many of your posts’ and have a great deal of respect for you. If I offended you as a brother then I ask for forgiveness. As far as mega-churches go, we would probably agree in many respects. I am not against the premise of mega-churches per se, but I do have major problems with the direction of the American church. Of a matter of fact I’ve considered starting a thread on churches in America with the premise of being called to other places in the world. I will say that I do have a problem with the persistent attacks on brothers in Christ based on a few words or some doctrinal disagreements. Being that we are not perfect, I feel we should be very careful when condemning another brother in Christ (which I have no doubt Warren is). The verses that have been used in this and many other threads can be used both ways and would lead to long and fruitless debates, but what is a fact is that we should be careful when we discuss other men of faith. Spurgeon was a smoker; could you imagine what we would do to him if he were preaching now? He would be lambasted, thus ruining his reputation in some people’s eyes. I look forward to many other discussions with you and again if I offended you I am very sorry. God bless.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

The problem, Brice, is that "some doctrinal differences" = another gospel. RW does not believe or teach the gospel of the Bible.

The Gospel was never meant to be and is not a warm and fuzzy message. It is a matter of life or death. I am offended when RW preaches a "gospel" that calls God a liar.

I spent 5 years in the feel good church and saw a side of "christianity" that strikes fear into my heart today. If RW fills the void, go for it. I prefer the Truth.

 

[Brice]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
The problem, Brice, is that "some doctrinal differences" = another gospel. RW does not believe or teach the gospel of the Bible.

The Gospel was never meant to be and is not a warm and fuzzy message. It is a matter of life or death. I am offended when RW preaches a "gospel" that calls God a liar.

I spent 5 years in the feel good church and saw a side of "christianity" that strikes fear into my heart today. If RW fills the void, go for it. I prefer the Truth.

This could turn into another long conversation, but I respect your opinion. RW is not my cup of tea per se, but I think we need to be careful when discussing other men of faith. I agree the gospel is a matter of life and death and more so then I think we can understand. God bless.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by Brice:
This could turn into another long conversation, but I respect your opinion. RW is not my cup of tea per se, but I think we need to be careful when discussing other men of faith. I agree the gospel is a matter of life and death and more so then I think we can understand. God bless.

We are called to judge the church, to expose false teachers. We may have a different perspective on how to do this. I believe that what I have done and will continue to do is Biblical. I am sorry that you feel differently.

Perhaps you have not been deceived, or believed deceptive teaching, accepting it as truth. It is hell. There is no more humbling and grievous experience than to know you have been had by the devil and only by the grace of God come into the truth. What I see in RW is a spirit of complete and total arrogance, presuming that he can lead 1000s of people into a new and better "purpose=gospel" than God gave us.

It's not just me. There is a ton of information out there if people would open their eyes. Instead they want the rose strewn path of destruction, rather than to pick up their cross and follow Christ through the narrow gate.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

whatever,

The Bible tells us to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. It also tells us in 1 Corinthians 6 that we are to judge amongst the body, that God judges those who are outside the body.

When a false doctrine such as the self gratifying doctrines of PDL arise, it is the christian's responsibility to expose the errors in that doctrine... or any other doctrine that does not line up with God's Word.

We are not to have fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Exposing false doctrines is not slandering anyone. It is in accordance with God's Word.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Diggin in da Word:
whatever,

The Bible tells us to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. It also tells us in 1 Corinthians 6 that we are to judge amongst the body, that God judges those who are outside the body.

When a false doctrine such as the self gratifying doctrines of PDL arise, it is the christian's responsibility to expose the errors in that doctrine... or any other doctrine that does not line up with God's Word.

We are not to have fellowship with unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Exposing false doctrines is not slandering anyone. It is in accordance with God's Word.

Hey Diggin,

I've read PDL. There are parts of it that I disagree with, but much of what its opponents have written are lies, plain and simple. There is no excuse for that. I am not saying that you have done so, by the way. But for the poster to lump Warren in with the likes of Osteen is uncalled for, and inexcusable in my opinion.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

whatever, it is not just the PDL, there are many other things that people have exposed. From Saddleback's own web page. Such as Rick's church will allow baptism of people who are living together outside of marriage. Highly unscriptural practice.

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by Diggin in da Word:
whatever, it is not just the PDL, there are many other things that people have exposed. From Saddleback's own web page. Such as Rick's church will allow baptism of people who are living together outside of marriage. Highly unscriptural practice.

I disagree with this practice of theirs, and with their reasoning for it. That doesn't make him comparable to Joel Osteen though. I just think it's a pity that we cannot have intelligent discussion of issues without that kind of thing. We'd rather get off a good line against a brother than to honestly discuss the issues we have with them or their practices. We ought to be ashamed.

 

[webdog]

Such as Rick's church will allow baptism of people who are living together outside of marriage. Highly unscriptural practice.

What is the Scriptural requirements for baptism?

 

[blackbird]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Such as Rick's church will allow baptism of people who are living together outside of marriage. Highly unscriptural practice.

What is the Scriptural requirements for baptism? </font>[/QUOTE]Requirements???

A new nature

Repentance from sin and receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord

Go, and sin no more