Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

[JonC]

On another thread a member insisted that human beings have a God-given entitlement to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The context is not within a society or under a government, but an unequivocal and universal entitlement.

My view is these are rights within humanity. A man does not have the right to take these away. But these rights do not extend beyond how men treat one another (God is not obligated to provide us with life, with happiness, or with liberty....and when we die God has not violated a human right).

My premise is that God is not obligated to sustain man, and man is not entitled to God's gifts and blessings....even the gift of life.

 

[KenH]

The only "right" that we, as descendants of Adam, have by nature is to be damned to hell.

 

[tyndale1946]

The only "right" that we, as descendants of Adam, have by nature is to be damned to hell.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Without the Loving Sovereign Mercy of Almighty God, that's where we were ALL headed... Brother Glen

 

[1689Dave]

Since I learned how sinful we are, I came to the conclusion that anything less than the worst is God's mercy on my part. And I consider myself among the most blessed ever.

 

[KenH]

Since I learned how sinful we are, I came to the conclusion that anything less than the worst is God's mercy on my part. And I consider myself among the most blessed ever.

Yet God has blessed His elect beyond our wildest imagination. It's like a person was in debt an unimaginable amount of money and he is told that his entire debt has been paid, and while he is amazingly thankful for that, he is told, "Wait, there is more. An unimaginable amount of money has been credited to your account." God's love is beyond anything we can think of or imagine.

to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge - Ephesians 3:19a

 

[JonC]

When it comes to the Declaration of Independence and our "God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", are these actually positive rights or derived by the inverse?

What I mean is, do I have a God-given right to life?

Or

Is it that another person does not have the right to take my life?

 

[1689Dave]

Yet God has blessed His elect beyond our wildest imagination. It's like a person was in debt an unimaginable amount of money and he is told that his entire debt has been paid, and while he is amazingly thankful for that, he is told, "Wait, there is more. An unimaginable amount of money has been credited to your account." God's love is beyond anything we can think of or imagine.

to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge - Ephesians 3:19a

What occurred to me, had Adam not sinned, we would be credited with his human righteousness. And receive whatever that would have provided. But in the Fall, we received Christ's (God's) own righteousness. This provided an imputed eternity of God's own blessedness.

 

[Van]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....

So these rights cannot be taken away as they are ours due to existence (creation) but they are not secured, as they can be "wrongly" taken by people. God of course can give and take away our life, our liberty and even our pursuit of happiness. Consider those now in Hades.

Christians believe humans can secure these "rights" by means of the blood of Christ. But we know that our life in this world can be lost (either through the actions of God or the actions God allows of people).

And we know that perhaps 25% of people believe they have a right to dictate to other people. Behold the Democrat Party. Wear a mask or else. Get a shot or else. Serve in the Military or else. The smash and grab folks believe they have a right to take from others by force.

And a "free" press that is untethered to truth provides no protection for these rights.

 

[37818]

The unalienable right to life is to be understood from the written word of God.
Genesis 1:27, ". . . God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. . . ."
Genesis 1:28, ". . . God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, . . ."
Genesis 9:6, ". . . Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. . . ."
Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not murder."
1 John 3:15, ". . . ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. . . ."

 

[JonC]

The unalienable right to life is to be understood from the written word of God.
Genesis 1:27, ". . . God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. . . ."
Genesis 1:28, ". . . God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, . . ."
Genesis 9:6, ". . . Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. . . ."
Exodus 20:13, "Thou shalt not murder."
1 John 3:15, ". . . ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. . . ."

I agree, BUT these are not truly unalienable rights belonging to the person. In the context of Scripture the prohibition is against taking life.

Our life remains a gift, not an entitlement or right, that another person has no right to take.

 

[37818]

I agree, BUT these are not truly unalienable rights belonging to the person. In the context of Scripture the prohibition is against taking life.

Our life remains a gift, not an entitlement or right, that another person has no right to take.

Is God a gift? God cannot not be God. Life can be lost. And yet once one has life we had no choice in it. Now eternal life it is a gift. And once one is of an age to choose eternal life, knowing of the gospel, can it be taken from one once recieved?

Our physical life whether deemed a gift or not, is an unalienable right. If not, life is a bad joke. Because all physical living things die and therefore phyciscal life is alienable.

 

[1689Dave]

Is God a gift? God cannot not be God. Life can be lost. And yet once one has life we had no choice in it. Now eternal life it is a gift. And once one is of an age to choose eternal life, knowing of the gospel, can it be taken from one once recieved?

Our physical life whether deemed a gift or not, is an unalienable right. If not, life is a bad joke. Because all physical living things die and therefore phyciscal life is alienable.

No choice in physical life which determines eternal life means no choice of eternal life either.

 

[JonC]

Is God a gift? God cannot not be God. Life can be lost. And yet once one has life we had no choice in it. Now eternal life it is a gift. And once one is of an age to choose eternal life, knowing of the gospel, can it be taken from one once recieved?

Our physical life whether deemed a gift or not, is an unalienable right. If not, life is a bad joke. Because all physical living things die and therefore phyciscal life is alienable.

In context of human society, I agree. But when God takes our life (our physical life) God does not violate our rights. Our life is His to give, or take. That is the context I was speaking about.

The Declaration of Independence uses these unalienable rights appropriately. In the course of human events, among the powers of earth, etc. set the framework. But as individuals considered separately from a whole (between a man and God) we have no rights or entitlements.

I may have my life taken by disease, by an accident, by an alligator attack (I like alligators), without my God-given rights being violated. This tells me I do not have a right to my life. But if I am murdered another person has done what they had no right to do. This is not a violation of my God-given right but a sin against God (the crime is against God - not me....the reason murder is wrong has nothing to do with me but everything to do with God).

 

[canadyjd]

When it comes to the Declaration of Independence and our "God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", are these actually positive rights or derived by the inverse?

What I mean is, do I have a God-given right to life?

Or

Is it that another person does not have the right to take my life?

The DOI statement concerning God given rights (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) is a political statement with the purpose of limiting government control of the citizens life.

It was meant primarily, perhaps solely, for that purpose.

It was not intended to be a religious statement concerning how God would interact with us.

peace to you

 

[37818]

. . . we have no rights or entitlements.

God given rights and entitlements. The argument would be, if any, they are God's gifts as our Creator. Or our DOI promotes a falsehood.

 

[JonC]

God given rights and entitlements. The argument would be, if any, they are God's gifts as our Creator. Or our DOI promotes a falsehood.

They are God's gifts, but they are not a one time gift. God continues to sustain our lives. If God demands our life we cannot say He violates our right to life.

I believe @canadyjd hit the nail on the head. The DOI deals with rights within a people.

 

[37818]

If God demands our life we cannot say He violates our right to life.

Agreed.

 

[Reynolds]

On another thread a member insisted that human beings have a God-given entitlement to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

The context is not within a society or under a government, but an unequivocal and universal entitlement.

My view is these are rights within humanity. A man does not have the right to take these away. But these rights do not extend beyond how men treat one another (God is not obligated to provide us with life, with happiness, or with liberty....and when we die God has not violated a human right).

My premise is that God is not obligated to sustain man, and man is not entitled to God's gifts and blessings....even the gift of life.

Is God obligated to do anything?

 

[37818]

Is God obligated to do anything?

In what God cannot lie, Titus 1:2.
And in what God is immutable, Hebrews 6:13-20.

 

[Reynolds]

In what God cannot lie, Titus 1:2.
And in what God is immutable, Hebrews 6:13-20.

He is sovereign. He can do anything He chooses. He won't choose to break His Word, but He would not be sovereign if He we're not capable to do so.