Thank you for taking the holier than thou approach in refusing to answer my question. You leave me to gather that you disagree with me. You leave me with the understanding that you believe the Holy Spirit is not given to believers unless they are baptized. I don’t require a book for an answer. I just want to know what you believe while I am talking to you. A simple “yes, I do believe that,” or a “no I don’t believe that,” is an answer that you have not given.
Yes I have pressed for an answer. Don’t shun me because I am not high and lofty as thou art.
Condescend to my low estate and give me an answer.
Take a deep breath Ben. I have answered that question more than once. I told you these instructions were applying to Israel only in the context of their national kingdom context. All God's redemptive purposes are realized through this one family lineage beginning with Abel. This family is the highway of the seed of the woman. I have said the baptism is not a part of salvation but, like circumcision in the OT under the temporary Mosaic covenant of law, identifies them with the family. If a member of this family was not circumcised he was cut off from the covenants of Israel and was an outcast. Consider this as being the reason Jesus Christ says in Mark 16 that he that believeth and is baptized will be saved and he that believeth not shall be DAMNED. The old covenant was taken away at the death of Jesus Christ and a new covenant was instituted (read 2 Cor 3 now). Circumcision ended and the identification with Israel is through baptism after the transition of the cross of Christ. It is not about individual identification, it is about corporate identification. It has nothing to do with gentiles because gentiles are not associated with this son of God, who, because of their failure to be saved (every one of you) during the apostolic era, have been reckoned dead by God, buried in the graveyard of the nations during which her citizens are reckoned as gentiles and baptized by the Spirit into a brand new creation, the church, the body of Christ, the temple of the Holy Ghost one at a time. Baptism in water is after the Spirit is given and is only a visual of the Spirit actually baptizing (immersing) the individual into the corporate body where they become a functioning member according to the discretion of the Spirit. This person will be born again first by trusting from the heart in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
But, this entity is resurrected and this time every one of them will surely be baptized but not with water but with fire. Seven judgements that will serve as a refiners fire to purge and cleanse Israel of her sinners and she will be like pure silver.
How serious was circumcision in the OT for identification with God's son under that system? See here.
21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
24 ¶
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him.
25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
Acts 3:12 ¶ And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26
Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
God killed the corporate son after 40 years because of his unrepentant sin and buried him. The parallel and visual for this is Jesus Christ himself who was in the grave 2 days and gloriously rose from the dead very early on the third day. One day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day with the Lord. This is very early on the third day in the grave for Israel and soon she will rise from the dead in glory.
Mark 16 is about these topics. My advice is to believe the words, and honor context and note the transitions of God in history. Then you can walk in safety.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
I pray the Lord is pleased with this sermonette and will bless someone with these truths.
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