Rights of a Business or Employer- slippery slope?

[Two Wings]

It is ironic I guess, but the most time I spent outdoors was during the "lockdown". Spent weekends at the beach, in the mountains, at parks. I worked from home that year but moved my computer to the patio.

do you recall the meem floating around circa June '20 ... (open highway and a Vette getting it done) "OK you nonessentials, the new average speed on the freeway is 97 mph, don't (mess) it up."

 

[JonC]

oh I've said several times "we need another lockdown" ... of course, that just benefitted ME for my travel as an "essential worker"

I never did pay any attention to the lockdowns when I was home. Now on the road in Kaly? ughh. they were N ... stringent enforcers. So is NY. I haven't done an overnight in LA since they "came out" with their covidiocy, just "turns."

I hate to say it because so many had a hard time, but the lockdown was a pretty good year for me. Beaches that were open were not crowded. Not many fishing. Parks were not crowded. I was actually surprised people were not out enjoying what was open. Took 2 vacations to TN, 3 to the mountains, and countless to the beach. Restaurants were closed for a very short time hear, but opened for take out and outdoor dining. I learned to cook fairly well

Sincerely,

Chef Jon

 

[FollowTheWay]

Jon ... how many of the losses were sustained after widespread cv vax availability?

It seems a bit pejorative to declare those lost last year/before mass availability in a statement like this.

A follow up question is ... did those lost have any of the "alternative" treatments? HCQ, Ivermectin, Budesonide protocols?

I think before declaring the need to cv vax based upon deaths, these treatments need to be recognized. Thousands of people have recovered from cv due to these different protocols which were activated early ... not late.

I believe we lost a lot of people we should NOT have lost due to the "standard" treatment which directed the patient to "go home" until they couldn't breathe. At that point, intubation, secondary bacterial infection of a dire straits condition that didnt' need to be.

But then without the deaths we'd not have so desperately needed the EUAs for the cv jabs.

See???

I can show you scientific studies which have shown that HCQ and Ivermectin were proven to NOT be effective tools against Covid. I doubt that would make any difference but here they are.

[PDF] Effect of Early Treatment With Hydroxychloroquine or Lopinavir and Ritonavir on Risk of Hospitalization Among Patients With COVID-19 | Semantic Scholar

Effect of Ivermectin on Time to Resolution of Symptoms Among Adults With Mild COVID-19: A Randomized Clinical Trial | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

 

[Two Wings]

I doubt that would make any difference but here they are.

what is it with you hard core cv vax promoters?

manipulate much?

If you expect the simple act of your posting the link will make my position the same as yours ... you're probably right, eyore. boo hoo! nobody loves me.

the march '21 Ivermectin study concludes no statistical difference. Ditto the April HCQ by JAMA (reported?)

That really doesn't answer the question I posed ... and completely omitted Budesonide. (I see in this post to which you replied I didn't ID that specifically. I usually say "HCQ, Ivermectin, &/or Budesonide)

www.budesonideworks.com

Dr. Richard Bartlett of Abilene Texas. I learned about his treatment in june or July '20. The protocol is on the website. I have the nebulizer ready to go (for about 15 months now) ... and all the ingredients. He hasn't lost a single patient and they've ranged from "doc I lost my sense of taste/smell" to patients with their family called in their 2nd week on a vent. Obviously the latter category takes significantly longer to be 100%.

Despite having hundreds of millions jabbed (just US) ... we STILL don't have a reasonable predictor of a given individual's immune response. That kind of info/data is gained with a trial longer than a year.

Perhaps the treatments have been developed for too much immune response. We're gonna find out real soon if the jabbed's immune system really does work against the virus this coming "low D" season. It's upon us. Given the significant number of "breakthrough cases" ... my confidence in vax over natural immune system ratio is probably the inverse of yours.

oh well ... probably gonna rain anyway.

 

[JonC]

my confidence in vax over natural immune system ratio is probably the inverse of yours.

To be fair, it is common for people to have had covid multiple times (a member here reported having it twice as well).

 

[Two Wings]

To be fair, it is common for people to have had covid multiple times (a member here reported having it twice as well).

no doubt.

I'm just giving my estimation of natural immunity. Better than this cv vax's immunity and no risk of the cv jab.

I know I've been exposed multiple times. suspect dozens of times. Haven't been down physically since before I knew what it was (Mar '20) ... despite 3 months of full airplanes, unrestricted movements, no mitigations ... and throughout the ebb and flow of GRANTED relief on some of the restrictions.

I'm considering the immunity test (something to do with T-Cells but I don't recall off hand) ... antibodies of course are a positive, but the lack of antibodies does NOT mean no immunity.

 

[JonC]

no doubt.

I'm just giving my estimation of natural immunity. Better than this cv vax's immunity and no risk of the cv jab.

I know I've been exposed multiple times. suspect dozens of times. Haven't been down physically since before I knew what it was (Mar '20) ... despite 3 months of full airplanes, unrestricted movements, no mitigations ... and throughout the ebb and flow of GRANTED relief on some of the restrictions.

I'm considering the immunity test (something to do with T-Cells but I don't recall off hand) ... antibodies of course are a positive, but the lack of antibodies does NOT mean no immunity.

I disagree about natural immunity being better than immunity acquired via vaccine - but varients may also come into play.

Bottom line is after 6 months immunity is markedly depressed in both cases.

Focus can be on vaccines, but not at the expense of actually treating covid.

 

[Two Wings]

Bottom line is after 6 months immunity is markedly depressed in both cases.

so the suggestion is to take a cv vax every 6 months?

is this going to be like the flu shot ... guestimating which type will be dominant. Guess right, you only deal with the shot effects (for me it's been bad EVERY time, so I stopped taking it 25 years ago). contract the flu, get flumidine in the first 24 hours, then recover in another 24 hours. Which for me ... is 5 days less than recovering from the shot.

no ... brainer.

Or ... just be ready to treat it if contracted, and press on ... no cv vax.

 

[Two Wings]

Bottom line is after 6 months immunity is markedly depressed in both cases.

... and is this based upon antibody count? Cause if it is ... that's too conservative.

You're not making antibodies for the influeza vaccine you had 3 years ago ... but you still have effective immunity.

Cell mediated response puts in that vast memory bank in the B cells.

 

[JonC]

so the suggestion is to take a cv vax every 6 months?

is this going to be like the flu shot ... guestimating which type will be dominant. Guess right, you only deal with the shot effects (for me it's been bad EVERY time, so I stopped taking it 25 years ago). contract the flu, get flumidine in the first 24 hours, then recover in another 24 hours. Which for me ... is 5 days less than recovering from the shot.

no ... brainer.

Or ... just be ready to treat it if contracted, and press on ... no cv vax.

I believe 6 month boosters is what's coming.

But the boosters have not had many side effects reported. I don't know if it's still because after 6 months the vacvine is still over 70% effective. But I didn't even have a sore arm after the booster. And I got the flu shot at the same time.

In fact, talking to the doctor she said they have had absolutely no issues with the booster. They have had complaints after the flu shot. She said that one was worse this year.

 

[Two Wings]

enjoy. I'll let y'all take all the vaxes you want.

I took my share in uncle sam's flying club stuff I can't even pronounce, let alone spell.

risk reward effectiveness ratios are still HEAVILY favoring "El Paso."

 

[JonC]

... and is this based upon antibody count? Cause if it is ... that's too conservative.

You're not making antibodies for the influeza vaccine you had 3 years ago ... but you still have effective immunity.

Cell mediated response puts in that vast memory bank in the B cells.

It is based on a study using the sane antibody tests. There is an issue as antibody counts are not consistent or equal.

The study with the J&J vacvine showed natural immunity declined significantly after 6 months but was greater than the antibodies provided via the J&J vaccine. What they found was covid decreased t-cells while the J&J vacvine significantly increased t-cell. After 8 months the J&J vacvine (with a lower antibody count) was more effective than natural immunity (with a higher antibody count). The conclusion was that vaccines need to focus on t-cells.

I do not recall the reason, if stated, that was given for the reason for decreased t-cell due to covid. The study indicated they expected a t-cell increase with covid but this did not occur.

I don't know how the mRNA vaccines affect t-cells (the study was only natural immunity vs the J&J vaccine).

 

[JonC]

enjoy. I'll let y'all take all the vaxes you want.

I took my share in uncle sam's flying club stuff I can't even pronounce, let alone spell.

risk reward effectiveness ratios are still HEAVILY favoring "El Paso."

When I enlisted lined up and got a million shots in each arm, walking up hill both ways. They didn't tell us what we got and we did not want to ask.

I think I'm immune to vaccines.

 

[Two Wings]

It is based on a study using the sane antibody tests.

aye ... that's the problem.

there should be an exposure to measure the rate of contraction at that (6) month point. Unless there's something in the gain-of-function of this virus which inhibits subsequent innate response ... my guess is that contraction rates with natural immunity will be far less than with the cv vax because of the singularity of the cv vax vice the entire virus with natural immunity.

 

[JonC]

aye ... that's the problem.

there should be an exposure to measure the rate of contraction at that (6) month point. Unless there's something in the gain-of-function of this virus which inhibits subsequent innate response ... my guess is that contraction rates with natural immunity will be far less than with the cv vax because of the singularity of the cv vax vice the entire virus with natural immunity.

Perhaps. I don't know simply because people who are not vaccinated but have natural immunity continue often get covid two and three times. And from the studies that have been posted on the BB it does appear the vaccinated are surviving covidcat a much higher rate than the unvaccinated. The problem being acquiring natural immunity is far more dangerous than acquiring immunity via a vaccine.

If we are comparing immunity then we have to consider the risks of each method of acquiring immunity. And one is far more likely to suffer serious effects and death via covid than the vaccines.

 

[Reformed1689]

It is ironic I guess, but the most time I spent outdoors was during the "lockdown". Spent weekends at the beach, in the mountains, at parks. I worked from home that year but moved my computer to the patio.

I talked to a lady on the phone the other day who said you weren't allowed to walk outside because of the pandemic? People are crazy because of this thing. It's stupid.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Forget about the vax, the question really is just this. Does the business owner have the right to mandate what the job requirements are? YES. The person that works there or is applying to work there can decide if they want to meet those required conditions. Before I retired I had to deal with a number of different business and at each one I had to agree to the conditions of entering their place of business.

Having said that if a business says you have to be vaxed and wear a mask to enter their business that is their right. If you do not agree then don't go there.

And if you worked there for years and there was no set vaccination mandate and suddenly there is and now (pending firing) you must be vaccinated and you do not want to be because that particular drug is experimental and you do not want to have an experimental drug injected into your body what then? I can clearly see a rights violation case brought to trial here and I await the impending court cases.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I talked to a lady on the phone the other day who said you weren't allowed to walk outside because of the pandemic? People are crazy because of this thing. It's stupid.

I have to agree… I’d say mindless

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Which freedom trumps the other?

Why the freedom to force inject an experimental drug into your body thus disregarding and disrespecting the rights of the people you are again forcing. Let’s go further… if they get sick from this forced jab is there legal recourse to sue the company forcing the said prescribed vaccination?

 

[Reformed1689]

Why the freedom to force inject an experimental drug into your body thus disregarding and disrespecting the rights of the people you are again forcing. Let’s go further… if they get sick from this forced jab is there legal recourse to sue the company forcing the said prescribed vaccination?

There should be. Or the employer should have to pay workman's comp.