Roman Catholicism , cult or not?

[kubel]

A cult? Perhaps.

But if anyone has ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, they will tell you there is plenty of scriptural support for almost all of their beliefs. It's shocking how much backing they have. It's just their interpretation of the scriptures are off. I could call plenty of other Christian denominations a cult too for the same reason- and even some Baptists.

 

[D28guy]

The Catholic Church is most definetly a non-christian cult.

When people speak of the "scriptural backing" for their catechism teachings I dont think they have really looked into those teachings.

What good does it do to acknowledge the triune nature of God, and to quote a lot of scriptures, if you turn right around and...

Practice and promote Goddess Worship?

Condemn Gods saving gospel of justification through faith alone?

And promote the very gospel that God curses...justification through works?

But I agree with what some others have said. I'm glad to say that some Catholics have somehow managed...miraculously...to stumble upon the new birth and they know Christ.

Just not many of them.

Mike

 

[Chemnitz]

The RCC is not a cult, a heterodox church filled with error yes. Cults lack all of the Gospel message concerning Christ's sacrifice while the RCC retains the message, they have just buried it under theological red tape.

 

[Alexander]

Bob,

You and some others here are really a bunch of anti-Catholic, hard-shell bigots, aren't you? I hear you state and quote a bunch of dubious sources, all with the same mind-set as you.

Maybe it's time for you step outside your bubble. You might enjoy it. It won't hurt, I promise.

I think of the teaching of St John, who stated that the mark of Christians that will distinguish them is their love. I would never know from reading some of these anti-Catholic diatribes that the persons writing them are Christians, if we use St. John's measure of love.

How sad! Where is the love?

If we can't love our brothers, who we see here with us, how can we claim to love God, who we don't see? Where is the love?

And who is our brother? Remember the parable of the Good Samaritan? It seems that our neighbor and brother are those whom are the most despicable. And those are the very ones we are at to love.

Where is the love in all these anti-Catholic rants?

Alexander

 

[Jim1999]

Alexander, It is a lack of trust in their own beliefs; a sign of insecurity to openly bash others.

I get the same from the cult of dispensationalism because I am amillennial in my eschatology. Oh yes, I am automatically anti-semitist also. It is frightening.........for them.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Alexander:
Bob,

You and some others here are really a bunch of anti-Catholic, hard-shell bigots, aren't you? I hear you state and quote a bunch of dubious sources, all with the same mind-set as you.

..
If we can't love our brothers, who we see here with us, how can we claim to love God, who we don't see? Where is the love?

First of all I completely agree that we must love one another and that includes Catholics an non-Catholics. So no "exterminating" CAtholics and no raising non-RC armies to fight Catholics - no counsels not church canons demanding that we "exterminat Catholics"

I would love it if the RCC had that same approach. No question.

I do not argue for NOT loving Catholic Christians - I DO argue for not promoting/defending the erros that tortured Christians for centuries!!

What are the "dubious sources" you refer to?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[nate]

The RCC has it's heretical doctrines. But every church has it's problems. The RCC certainly does not deny any Orthodox Christian doctrines such as the Mormons and the JW's. Not a cult.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by nate:
The RCC has it's heretical doctrines. But every church has it's problems. The RCC certainly does not deny any Orthodox Christian doctrines such as the Mormons and the JW's. Not a cult.

Don't the RC's deny the once for all time sacrifice of Jesus Christ each and every time they perform the Eucharist?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Websters College Dictionary gives three basic definitions of a cult:

a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies;

a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc.;

a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist."

 

[OldRegular]

It should also be noted that much of Scripture is devoted to pointing out the errors, first in the worship practices of Israel, and then in the worship practices of the various early Christian churches. If error creeps into a Church and is not stomped out it grows, eventually becoming heretical. It is the responsibility of every pastor, in fact every Christian, to point out obvious deviations from Scripture truth.

The Apostle Paul clearly demonstrates this truth. His Letters generally address one or more errors in the early Church. He even takes the "first pope!????" Peter to task.

The RC communion did not become what it is today overnight, it took until 1950 at which time the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary was promulgated by Pius XII.

The Word-Faith Movement did not spring forth in full bloom but was a slow perversion of already questionable Pentacostal doctrines.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Alexander, It is a lack of trust in their own beliefs; a sign of insecurity to openly bash others.
Jim

This is an unfair assessment and certainly unchristian of you to call those of us who are dispensationalists, a cult. You have just put yourself in the same class as those "who lack a trust in their own beliefs; a sign of insecurity to openly bash others," by doing the same.
Practice what you preach.

Jude says to contend for the faith.
The Cathoics do not believe in justification by faith. This is a cardinal doctrine of our faith.
They believe that born again = baptism. This is heresy.
They don't believe that Christ paid for our sins, or that his death was insufficient for our sins, else why would they have to pay in part for them by spending time in purgatory?

The list goes on. This belief system puts it in the realm of a cult.
The fact that there is no soul liberty, but only slavery to believe one authority (the magesterium), just as a cult has only one authority (David Koresh) makes them a cult.

It has every marking of a cult, and ought to be exposed as one. Truth mixed with error is still error. It still poisons the mind and the end result is death--eternal death.
DHK

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, DHK!

 

[Chemnitz]

Soul Liberty is a figment of the imagination. We are either slaves of the world or slaves of Christ.

They do believe that Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. Their mistake comes from the idea that the grace is given out in little pieces rather than all of it everytime.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Chemnitz:
Soul Liberty is a figment of the imagination. We are either slaves of the world or slaves of Christ.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

It wasn't a figment of the imaginatiions of the Bereans, who took the liberty to practice the study of the Scriptures on their own accord to see if what Paul was preaching was according to the Scriptures. That is soul liberty. They were at liberty to do so, and not confined to the dictaties of a magesterium or the likes of David Koresh. Each believer is a priest before God, able to come right before the throne of God in prayer (the priesthood of the believer), and has the right to study to show himself approved unto God...rightly dividing the Word of truth under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. No man can be forced to believe any organization's "private interpretation." That is the mark of a cult, one of the marks of the RCC.

They do believe that Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. Their mistake comes from the idea that the grace is given out in little pieces rather than all of it everytime.

If they truly believed that Christ paid the price for our sins, there would be no necessity for the invention of the unsciptural doctrine of Purgatory where one must further pay or be "purged" from their sins. The concepts are contradictory one to another. You cannot believe that Christ paid the full penalty of our sin, and believe in purgatory at the same time.
DHK

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Purgatory is indeed a term invented by the catholic church to discredit the severity of punishment set forth in God's Word as seen in Luke 16.

Abraham clearly stated that the rich man could not leave hell, yet the catholic's teach one can be placed in hell for a short season, but could be prayed out.

Purgatory is a doctrine that is contrary to God's Word.

 

[Alexander]

Alexander,

And the rants go on.

I read these responses, and have yet to read one that - judged objectively - evidences any love for those who do not agree with your personal beliefs.

You may dress up your responses with all sorts of qualifications and 'yes - buts' and pious protestations, but it's all putting lipstick on a pig. The lack of love for Catholics is glaring and unrelenting.

When our Lord saw people who were in the grip of sin and death and mis-belief or dis-belief, he loved them. Period. No qualification. No 'ifs'. No 'but's. No self-pitying about how they had treated him (or would treat him, at the end). He JUST LOVED THEM.

Are we to do any less?

Alexander

 

[Gold Dragon]

DHK, There are plenty of things the RCC is wrong about that you could have chosen. The fact that you chose things that they don't believe is an indication of the lengths you will go to defame Catholics.

Originally posted by DHK:
The Cathoics do not believe in justification by faith. This is a cardinal doctrine of our faith.

Catechism of the Catholic Church : Justification

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:

It would have been correct to say that Catholics do not believe in justification by faith alone because of James 2.

NASB - James 2:24

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Originally posted by DHK:
They don't believe that Christ paid for our sins, or that his death was insufficient for our sins, else why would they have to pay in part for them by spending time in purgatory?

Catechism of the Catholic Church : Jesus Died Crucified

613 Christ's death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins".

614 This sacrifice of Christ is unique; it completes and surpasses all other sacrifices. First, it is a gift from God the Father himself, for the Father handed his Son over to sinners in order to reconcile us with himself. At the same time it is the offering of the Son of God made man, who in freedom and love offered his life to his Father through the Holy Spirit in reparation for our disobedience.

Note that Catholic doctrine says that purgatory is for the elect or those already saved.

Catechism of the Catholic Church : The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

And there is scripture to say the elect will be "tested by fire".

1 Cor 3:15

If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1 Pet 1:7

so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Revealing sin and false doctrine does not mean you have someone, but rather that you are concerned about their eternal destiny.

To preach against sin is not hatred at all. It is just the opposite. It is love.

If I hated the catholics, I would not say a word about their false teachings. I would glory in their going to hell for all eternity.

No, I love them with the love of God. That is why I warn them. That is why I preach against the lies that their religion teaches.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Alexander:
Alexander,

And the rants go on.

I read these responses, and have yet to read one that - judged objectively - evidences any love for those who do not agree with your personal beliefs.

You may dress up your responses with all sorts of qualifications and 'yes - buts' and pious protestations, but it's all putting lipstick on a pig. The lack of love for Catholics is glaring and unrelenting.

When our Lord saw people who were in the grip of sin and death and mis-belief or dis-belief, he loved them. Period. No qualification. No 'ifs'. No 'but's. No self-pitying about how they had treated him (or would treat him, at the end). He JUST LOVED THEM.

Are we to do any less?

Alexander

Yes he loved them. And we do to. My entire extended family, including my father and mother are Catholics. I do not hate them. I love them very much. I detest, abhor, utterly hate, the abominable doctrine which is sending them straight to the pit of Hell!

And so did Jesus!
Read Matthew 23 and see how many times he said: "Woe unto you Pharisees..."

Read:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Read:
Matthew 11:23-24 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Read:
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

While you are at it read the loving words of our beloved Apostle Paul who wrote the love chapter of 1Cor.13:

Acts 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

Yes Jesus (and Paul) spoke the truth in love. And so do we. You call it bashing. Well I guess we are in good company.
DHK

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by DHK:
Truth mixed with error is still error. It still poisons the mind...

I agree. You really should not mix error with your truth.