Roman Catholicism , cult or not?

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by DHK:
The thread would have no doubt ended long ago. But as long as their are posters that defend the doctrine of the Catholic Church there will be plenty of others who will oppose it. Most on this board beleive in "defending the faith," which includes exposing heresy.
DHK [/QB]

This reflects the situation quite well. Even though there are some who say themselves are not RC, they are actually pro-Catholic and do not understand the problem with Catholic.

Not only DHK, many expressed their faith well and pointed out the problems with RC very well.

We should not hate the people, but must hate the evil which is against Words of God.
We can see how cunningly the heretics try to survive everywhere and by any means, when they are found to be hopeless, having nothing to say in their defense.

Heb 1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity ; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees .

The doctrines of Catholic is much worse than those of Pharisees or Sadducees.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Alexander:
Bob,

You and some others here are really a bunch of anti-Catholic, hard-shell bigots, aren't you? I hear you state and quote a bunch of dubious sources, all with the same mind-set as you.

Maybe it's time for you step outside your bubble. You might enjoy it. It won't hurt, I promise.

I think of the teaching of St John, who stated that the mark of Christians that will distinguish them is their love. I would never know from reading some of these anti-Catholic diatribes that the persons writing them are Christians, if we use St. John's measure of love.

How sad! Where is the love?

If we can't love our brothers, who we see here with us, how can we claim to love God, who we don't see? Where is the love?

And who is our brother? Remember the parable of the Good Samaritan? It seems that our neighbor and brother are those whom are the most despicable. And those are the very ones we are at to love.

Where is the love in all these anti-Catholic rants?

Alexander

Are these too bigoted remarks against other religions:?

"Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way." Ps. 119:104

"Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church
of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears." Acts 20:26-31

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-8

Do you have the same charge to make to Paul who spoke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? Guess what, the RCC has "another gospel" that is no gospel at all. And I would also guess that you don't have two parents in hell at the moment because of their false doctrine. I do.

Your love over truth argument will not stand at the Judgement Seat of Christ I can assure you.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Revealing sin and false doctrine does not mean you have someone, but rather that you are concerned about their eternal destiny.

To preach against sin is not hatred at all. It is just the opposite. It is love.

If I hated the catholics, I would not say a word about their false teachings. I would glory in their going to hell for all eternity.

No, I love them with the love of God. That is why I warn them. That is why I preach against the lies that their religion teaches.

Amen! And those that claim to love them all the way to hell are not exhibiting love in any fashion.

"Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked
way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul." Ez. 3:17-19

I say become a watchman instead of trying to be poular with the world.

http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletters/2006+Newsletters/131759.aspx

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
There are maybe two or three Roman Catholics who use this board. What is your point in ranting on and on, page after page, forum after forum, against the RC Church? I don't get it.

Cheers,

Jim

If you don't get it Jim then you need to read on and get it.

Many Christians here don't even know that Roman Catholicism is a false religion and that their Catholic friends need the Gospel. That's why.

And we need Christians today to have some degree of discernment in defending the one true faith once delivered to the saints.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Amen, JackRUS!

To many christians nowadays are laying down the armor, putting the Word on the shelf and buddying up with the world. Their philosophy, if I just show them how friendly I am, I can win them over.

We are never to buddy up with the world. There is danger for the christian who buddies up with the world as Ezekiel 3:17 - 19 attest to.

Who is on the Lord's side? Stand bold. You are responsible for the Word that is placed in your hands and in your heart.

The Bible teaches us if we deny Christ before men, He will deny us before His Father. Matthew 10:33

Are we denying Christ just to have one more friend?

 

[D28guy]

Alexander,

"Listen, people.

Our Lord did NOT go around calling people heretics."

Your right. He was stronger.

He told people that they were "of their father the devil" and that they were "white washed tombs filled with dead mens bones"

He LOVED them.

By telling them the truth.

Paul as well. After rebuking some who were in great error, he said "Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?

"He did NOT subject them to a detailed analysis of their theology."

Ever read Matthew Chapter 23?

"He LOVED them."

By telling them the truth.

He did not quote obscure texts, expound abstruse doctrine, demand people subscribe to them OR ELSE CALL THEM HERETICS.

He went beyond that by telling those in grave error that they were "of your father the devil" and that they were "white washed tombs filled with dead mens bones"

"He LOVED them.

Enough to tell them the truth.

He summarized ALL the Law and the Prophets by saying that being faithful is about LOVING God with all the heart and mind and soul AND LOVING our neighbors as ourselves.

And if you love someone you will tell them the truth if they are about to drive off of a cliff.

Would you consider it "loving" to not tell someone you love that they are about to drive off of a cliff?

"He did NOT say that being faithful is about subscribing to the right list of theological propositions."

"If you contuinue in my word you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." --Jesus Christ

'You're missing the boat. As St. Paul says, you can have ALL knowledge but without love you're just a noisy, clanging bell (and I would add - an annoying noise-maker).

We tell people the truth about Catholicism because we love them.

"Have I become your enemy for telling you the truth?" --Paul the apostle

'I read your responses, and I ask myself: do I get any sense of LOVE from you? And the answer is easy: No.

You are not recognising the love for some reason.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Jim1999,

"There are maybe two or three Roman Catholics who use this board. What is your point in ranting on and on, page after page, forum after forum, against the RC Church? I don't get it."

Jesus spoke of the shepherd leaving the 99 to search for the one sheep who needed him.

If there were only one Catholic here it would be worth it.

God bless,

Mike

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Pope Wears Fish

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by DHK:
My assessment and accusation is not wrong.
Your understanding of James 2 is wrong. The Scripture does not contradict itself:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
--We are justified by faith alone, not by faith plus baptism. That is a heresy of the Catholic Church. I maintain my position.

I never shared my understanding of James 2 but I commend your mind reading abilities to know that my understanding is wrong.

Scripture definitely does not contradict itself. And anyone who dismisses the words of James 2 is ignoring scripture to defend their pre-understanding of doctrine.

I know I'll never change your mind about this issue since it is so definitional to your identity. But I post to reveal the mistruths in your posts and hope that others will be able to criticize Roman Catholicism with the truth of what they believe and not the many mistruths and misrepresentations found in your posts and others in this thread.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Gold Dragon:
I know I'll never change your mind about this issue since it is so definitional to your identity. But I post to reveal the mistruths in your posts and hope that others will be able to criticize Roman Catholicism with the truth of what they believe and not the many mistruths and misrepresentations found in your posts and others in this thread.

Show me where I have mistepresented the truth about the Catholic Church, but make sure you take one issue at a time so it can be properly and thoroughly discussed.
Again, it is good to hear you affirm that the Scripture does not contradict itself. A quick exegesis of Ephesians 2:8,9 will demonstate that salvation is by faith and by faith alone. It can be by no other way.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[D28guy]

...And James 2 does not in the least bit contradict that truth from Ephesians 2:8-9.

Praise God \0/ for His wonderful scriptures...and for His matchless gift of justification through faith alone!

Mike

 

[D28guy]

StandingFirminChrist,

OK, I give up.

What do you mean by...

"Pope wears Fish"?

Mike

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The hat on the pope's head is in shape of a fish.

also, the PWF is sort of a running joke. some of us have been posting phrases that use three words beginning with P,W, and F in that order.

 

[Matt Black]

Oh, great, another Catholic-bashing thread! As if we don't have enough already.

What is the purpose of this and other threads exactly? There are precious few Catholics left on this board so if your idea is to proseletyse them and show them the great error of their ways, then you've come to the wrong place. If the purpose is to crow at how you've all got the Truth and are Proper Christians and to pity all those poor Catholics who are destined for Hell, then I have nothing to say to you other than keep on hypocriically patting yourselves on the back if that makes you feel better about life. If however you want to debate Catholic beliefs, then I'll do my best to participate as a non-Catholic, but I really don't want to see the salvation of others being judged in the way I've seen so far.

So, which is it, people?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
If however you want to debate Catholic beliefs, then I'll do my best to participate as a non-Catholic, but I really don't want to see the salvation of others being judged in the way I've seen so far.

So, which is it, people?

Your question is answered at the top of this page by Eliyahu.

 

[Alexander]

JackRUS,

I'm truly sorry that you believe your parents are lost because they died as Catholics. I would only add that God is merciful and loving, and neither you nor I nor anyone else on earth has any knowledge of the condition of their souls at the moment of their death.

Alexander

 

[Alexander]

When Jesus spoke to the people about the Pharisees, he did not speak against their teaching (which for some obscure reason that I don't understand some of you are equating with Catholicism - not sure how you made THAT huge leap) - but he did warn against their behavior. The problem was not that their teaching was false but that they didn't follow it themselves. In fact, Jesus told the people to follow the Pharisee's teaching because they lawfully sat in the seat of Moses BUT he did tell them not to do as they did - since they ignored the weightier matters of the Law.

I have to say that one of the symptons I see on this board from some of the posters is a spirit similar to that of the Pharisees. By that I mean that there are some who would demand adherence to the most minute jot and tittle of doctrine but who overlook the law of love and compassion.

That is sad, because it gives the non-Christian world a distorted view of what the faith is all about. You see, I would say that the Christian faith is a love affair between a Father and His children. A love affair where an infinitely loving Father stands at the door of his heavenly mansion, preparing a feast for his wayward sons and daughters, and running to meet them before they are even in sight. A heavenly shepherd scouring the hillsides for that one lost sheep and rejoicing greatly to find it and bring it home on his shoulders. My faith is not about getting all the doctrines right and I'm so grateful that it's not. Why? Because God is so infinitely greater than I can ever know, and I am so limited in my capacity as a human to understand Someone like Him. But a child holding up his hands to his father, asking him to take him and hold him and reveling in his love - - - - I can understand that!

Before any of you pounce on me about how important doctrine and dogma and 'right belief' are: STOP. I don't deny that. But it can't be the place where I start in my life with God. Our Lord didn't teach that the way to him was through studying theology and getting all the right dogmatic/doctrinal assertions completely right. He taught us that the way to him was the way of a child coming to his Father. And I guess I think that as long as we use that as the place we always return to, then we won't go far wrong.

And that is a place of love. Always of love.

Not of railing against people we don't like (for WHATEVER reason) or of railing against people who don't like us (for WHATEVER reason) or witch-hunting for heresy.

Always a place of love. A heavenly Father giving up all he has so we can come home to him.

Alexander

 

[D28guy]

Alexander,

I asked you a question in a recent post to you...which you have ignored.

It was part of a fairly long post, and maybe you missed it, so I'll ask you this question again.

I am really asking you this, and I would like you to answer it.

Here it is...

Would you consider it "loving" to not tell someone you love that they are about to drive off of a cliff?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Alexander]

D28guy (Mike),

There are many ways of spreading the Good News.

St. Francis (I think, but I may have the attribution wrong) said to preach the Gospel always - - and to even use words, if you have to.

The Good News is NOT about fire insurance. It is about the love of an infinitely gracious, kind, compassionate Father who desires to have His children with Him always. I question tactics that frighten people into the Kingdom with fear or make salvation dependent on intellectual/mental assent to correct doctrine. God desires us because he LOVES us, not because we believe all the right doctrine and can enter into a dialogue with him about the doctrince of the hypostatic union embodied in the Chalcedonian creed.

Which is not to say that doctrine and dogma are unimportant. They are. But that's another discussion.

Alexander

 

[nate]

Originally posted by I'm4Given:
Why is Jesus still on the crosses in RCC?
Johnny

I know in Eastern Orthodoxy that Jesus on the Cross is a reminder of the suffering Christ suffered on the cross. I really think a lot of Baptist read to much into things.
Here is an excerpt from an Eastern Orthodox website.

The usual objection to depicting Christ crucified is that He is not crucified today- rather He's risen, ascended, and glorified (To which the Orthodox answer, Amen!) For this reason Protestants use an empty cross as a sort of icon of the Resurrection, and are often offended by an image of the cross with Jesus still on it. The other objection to depicting Christ crucified is related to the perception that Roman Catholics sacrifice Jesus anew every Sunday - it's assumed that they believe Jesus is forever on the cross. I don't know enough about Roman Catholicism to address that perception, but it's certainly not true of Orthodoxy. We believe that Christ died, once for all, and rose on the third day. You can't be Orthodox and not believe that - it's part of the Creed we learn at baptism and recall weekly in worship.

When you see an Orthodox cross with Jesus pictured on it, you're seeing an icon of the crucifixion. It's not meant to indicate what is true today. It's a teaching picture representing an historical event in which all Christians believe: the one-time crucifixion of Christ. Typically, the crucifixion icon includes more detail than just the dying Christ. His mother and the apostle John are shown at the foot of the cross (where Jesus, being an only child, had to give His mother into the keeping of His friend). Overhead the sun and moon, representing the powers of heaven, look on. Beneath His feet, under the earth, we see a skull, alone in darkness - showing that Christ has trampled down death by His own death, and His blood saves even those who have died beforehand. Like many icons, this one communicates the Gospel in ways that transcend the limits of literacy.

We don't use an empty cross as an icon of the Resurrection, because we already have an icon specifically showing the Resurrection and telling its story. The Resurrection icon shows Christ in triumph, calling Adam and Eve out of the grave, trampling on the gates of hell and death, whose keys are scattered at His feet along with the figure of Satan, bound in the darkness. With Christ are the righteous kings, priests, and people of all ages. His resurrection is ours as well.

But there's still one more reason to show Christ on the cross: It's Christ we worship, not the Cross. Nobody salutes a flagpole when the flag is not flying! But when they see the flag on the pole, they venerate the flag, hand over heart, hat removed, in token of their respect for the country it represents. A cross without Christ on it is an empty flagpole.